Fujoshi32's Topics (165)

Yeah, this is Saeko Kamon. It always escalates quickly.

LOL yeah I just love how every one in her stories is so casual about sex XD

And not just any sex, but sex with a complete hot stranger in a bath-house, sex with someone who's into girl's bathing suits, sex with someone who the guy is being blackmailed to spy on ... and it's all okay, just another encounter, nothing to get worked up over. Saeko Kamon takes all the squeamishness out of kink and makes it ordinary and on the same level as ... I dunno, getting a pedicure.

don't forget sex at open grounds in school through a freakin' fence were people from both schools are totally capable of seeing you from class or could walk on you at any moment XD

... And, in fact, do — just to throw rank around, indulge in some humiliation BDSM and threaten expulsion. I forgot about that story, and how can anyone forget about sex through a chain-link fence? Well, she makes it seem so "Just another day in Saekoland."

XD although it's always so crazy and unreasonable I always come back and reread her stories (≧∀≦)

Yah, the censoring quite ruined the art. (T_T)

tell me about it .. i felt like i didn't get the full experience .. but i'm thankful ^^

yeah. i was like ╯︿╰ why was it whited out? damn censors.

i'm really looking forward for more stories from this mangaka ^^

Not sure if it was the girl, or Shirotani-Sensei, but it sounds like the reaction of an adult who feels that way about themselves. Guilty conscience, maybe. In any case, there's nothing like a blast of shame to scorch away innocence. I'm astonished that it undid Shirotani jr. so completely later on in life, though.

Sheer speculation, but I wonder if the 'girl' is, in fact, 'Tada's' mother who later marries Shirotani-sensei. It may be that worse things happened to the kid.

I'm fairly sure it is the girl who says it, since she is the one that caught him literally with his pants down (well shorts). I don't think it really reflects a guilty conscience of the other adult, as much as a reflection of what part of her comment cemented his trauma. Since this is a Shirotani's dream, I feel that he's unconsciously comparing his first sexual experience with his most current sexual experience and is having a hard time differentiating both experiences.

well i don't think he married her later on she's too young .. and i think his father dies shortly after this incident

i think what truly traumatized him .. more than the girl's words .. was the guilt of rejecting his father after seeing that side of him especially after loosing him later on, being the only close family member he ever had (as we see there is no indication for the presence of his mother) i think all that piled inside him and lead him to be the person we're see now

Well I don't think the guilt part has anything to go with why he finds sex as something dirty or wrong (i think thats mostly associated with the act that his father did with the girl and the words she said to him). I mean it could be another reason for his phobia or anti socialism, but I guess it's still to soon to really understand his family history and how it truly fits in his personality.

Are you sure Shirotani has no living family? Clearly in chapter 1 when he washes his hands while recalling holding his father's hand, he gets a call and the caller id says 'Home'.

no of course not all that is a sheer speculation of mine .. nothing is yet certain it's all just guessing

The girl was definitely imprinted in Shirotani Jr.'s memory/subconsciousness as part of the experience of being shamed, as she opened the door to reveal him when this barrage of soul-crushing approbation was leveled point-blank at him, but are dreams ever that literal? Or is it only in fiction where the symbolic language they normally use is replaced by outright memory, suppressed as the case may be. The scattered and disjointed thought bubbles leave me uncertain. Maybe they represent only that part of the experience which Shirotani Jr. remembers, a selective part because of the enormous emotional burden they dumped on him, but maybe they represent multiple voices as well. We only see her semi-shaded figure against the lighted background. (I'm going to continue this in another comment because the comment field is jumping at me, and I've already lost 3 attempts at a reply.)

Other than that the girl was directly involved in the shaming, everything else is speculation:
(1) That she was his nanny/caregiver/unrelated person who pretended to be caring for him, which may be the case. It may also be the case that she was his mother — albeit a young, possibly unwed mother who resorts to seducing the sensei out of desperation, and uses the reveal and shaming not only because she has to figure out some way of extracting the boy from the cabinet, but also as possible guilt-hook to pressure him to marry her: "Look at what has happened to my son ... and you were part of it, you dirty old man." (Again, the reply field is acting strange, so I will continue in the next comment.)

Continuing ...

(2) That Shirotani-Sensei is the boy's real, biological father.

(3) That the girl and sensei engaged in a sexual activity which is what precociously awoke Shirotani's nascient sexuality. I happen to think that's what happened because why else would he have this reaction? Also, blacked out panel. But, we don't know for certain because blacked out panel.

(4) Whether the girl was alone or not when she exposed Shirotani Jr., and whether the cruel things which were said to him were out of her mouth alone.

All these things are represented in a visual fashion except for the shaming, which came later on, and the explicit instructions to hide from "Sensei" — definitely not a term used to refer to one's spouse (except, maybe, in a casual joking fashion) so the girl and Shirotani Sr. were NOT married at that point, if ever ... but, also not a term which one uses towards one's father. So, because everything else is nonverbal, it lends itself to distortion and confusion. Also, we don't know if it's a dream, where it could all be a symbolic representation of something else, or a memory returning with force and clarity.

That's about all I have to say on the subject. :-)

Could be. I wrote out my reasoning in response to Kathy's comment, if that matters enough to respond to. :-)

I actually like the vagueness of the scene. We don't have concrete answers, and I think that Shirotani is also confused about it, as well as deeply and negatively affected — although to have triggered that scale of mysophobia just based on THAT! There must've been more, an underlying physiological imbalance, maybe.

What I don't want to reinforce is any implication that it's because of "nasty girls" and their evil shaming ways that Shirotani Jr. turned gay, because that serves no purpose.

I believe it's a clear indication (at least I see it that way, I could be wrong) that he was dreaming it:
http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/ten_count/mf/c018/8/
He awakes startled and scared. Dreams can in fact be vivid enough to re-live a traumatic scene, don't get me wrong your interpretation can also be quite spot on actually. Maybe that's not the only "voice" calling him disgusting (I took the bubble shattering, as something more to do with his mental health being... tainted(?) I can't really think of a word to describe my point on that part of the scene. But it never crossed my mind that it could in fact be multiple voices), but I believe that she's most likely the first to do so and because of that she is used as a representation for why he feels that the act of sex is disgusting. To regard to her relation to him, well seeing as there is little information other than the fact that she most likely a student and maybe even knows Shirotani (jr), is still to early to really understand. I doubt that she ever became a future step-mother, but than again his family history is pretty much just vague at this moment.

And actually, now that I look back to page 8, the bubble shattering could also just be another indication of him dreaming about his past. Since it's overlapping to where it shows him as once again as an adult, and awakening in a scared way.

Hey, Kathy, ITYWAToad and Fujoshi32! Just want to tell you guys how much I'm enjoying the meta. It made me go back and take a good hard look at those scenes. I sure missed a bunch the first time through.

I'm not sure where I got the idea that she might be his mother. I think it had to do with the fact that she was so aware of him. I don't know many students who think that much or interact that much with their professors' children. Again, we're assuming Shirotani-Sensei is a teacher. He could be a doctor of some sort, or some sort of professional artist or writer. I do think it's a bit farfetched now, but I still wonder if Shirotani Sr. is his real father.

it's not really that rare i mean if you like some one it's pretty normal to get close and gain the trust of the people around that person .. and no matter how i look at it I believe that Shirotani-Sensei is a single father (why would a kid at this age wait for his father at his work place) also this shows us that this may have happened a lot in the past that's why we see a kind of strong relationship between the girl and Shirotani jr.

Honestly I believed that it had been his sister at first (i had thought that the man had no relation to him at first) and I can see where you might have that slight impression cause she did seem to be aware of him. One of my theories is that his father probably use to take him to work often (assuming of course that he is in fact a professor/or even doctor and that scene took place in his office. Still there is so much that is still left to wonder, like why does the father not question where his son is when he is with the girl (does he know that the girl hid him? had he been the one to ask her to do it? Or was he just that much of a neglectful father?). Who knows maybe that was not his father, but I guess we would just have to wait (or I guess read the raws cause i think the other chapter is out but not too sure) and see.

Well, my initial thought was that Shirotani Jr. was waiting at his workplace because he, or the girl (his mother) had a scheduled appointment with him. If she was a single mother, she would've likely brought him with her.

... Aaand, no, it isn't that rare for students to get close to whomever they feel might help them 'advance their cause' if they want to get close to a professor. It's just ... crass and manipulative. I guess that's pretty obvious from her reaction in any case.

The unusual lack of curiosity and concern of Shirotani-Sensei toward his son when he had this rendezvous with the girl, and the immediate lack of intervention when she (assuming it was her) started to berate him, is what led me to think that she was a single mother hauling the to-be-junior Shirotani along with her to appointments.

I don't know if I like the implications of this trauma, Kathy. On the one hand, we have trope that it's the evilness of women that causes men to "go gay" (instead of acknowledging it as a natural condition); on the other, it's neglectful (or possibly abusive) fathers. Neither one is an idea I want to reinforce, even if it makes sense in terms of his OCD.

I'm not quite sure how I feel since the scene is disturbing enough, but once we start to bring more context to it, it becomes even more wrong. Honestly, if his father was neglectful than I wouldn't understand why Shirotani would have ever felt guilty for not being there for him, but than again he might just be that nice. I have a feeling that it is of neglect, but guess we would have to wait.

Damn right.xD i see u read to much too to even buy this crap of love

LOL XD

oh and when her brother finds out he goes to confront him an that's how he got his scar .. what do you guys think ??