So. There have been many comments stating that there was nothing wrong with Jeonghan's behavior, that it was perfectly understandable and utterly normal, but *mainly*, also statements that, actually, the people who thought his behavior was unacceptable were simply naïve kids who didn't understand how "real life" works, and (sorry, I feel like I just have to quote this) "probably the fucking 14 yrs olds", because all of the "grown-ups" supposedly know and agree that no one would ever be ok with a distant relative staying at their place because they don't know them, and that the fact that Jeonghan actually "endures" this already makes him commendable, no matter what else he does.
Actually, greensilverscarf has already addressed a large part of the problem (and imho very well). I'd just really like to address another part from my own viewpoint. (And I apologize in advance because this turned out *very* long, so if you're not one for that, please *absolutely* just skip this – I do understand you're here to read manga, not novels ;)
The thing is, I'd just like to ask people to please not generalize like this. If some of you can emphathize with Jeonghan, that's you. Not, as has been implied, "every reasonable grown-up". For my part, I am one of those people who think his behavior is not ok, and not perfectly normal. Sure, it may not be uncommon, but I still consider it very callous, rude and ultimately unacceptable.
Just because you're doing somebody a favor, even if it's a significant one like letting them live at your place, it does not automatically give you a universal “free pass” to be rude, disparaging, and disregard basic rules of common courtesy. At least that's certainly the way *I* was brought up – if you're going to offer help, it should be sincere, and not something where you deliberately, knowingly make a show of how inconvenienced you are and rub it in the other person's face. (If you're *not* actually willing or able to provide help and you're just going to feel resentful, the more reasonable option – for both sides – is probably still to just be honest about it and not offer. And let's remember that in this particular case, Iljo wasn't even *asking* for it to begin with.)
And just to be perfectly clear – yes, I am certainly old enough and in a position to be able to judge this realistically. I've given this some actual serious thought, and personally, I can honestly say that, if – right now (and I mean this) – an albeit distant relative in that sort of dire situation temporarily had no place to stay due to serious family-related circumstances like this, even if I'd had no contact with them until then – if it was someone with such an overall kind, humble and unassuming personality like this, I'd have no problem with letting that person stay at my place. Honestly, if it was this sort of sweet and helpful person, who even went out their way to not inconvenience me in any way and did all the chores around the house, I might actually welcome it, and appreciate the opportunity to get to know each other better.
Now I imagine if said person actually developed one-sided feelings for me, it would be very uncomfortable, for sure. Though I'd probably feel super awkward about it, rather than actually angry. Either way, it certainly wouldn't lead me to feel the need to lay into and "punish" this shy person who'd visibly flinch at my every harsh word and whom I'd know to have only just lost their only close family after a long and traumatic struggle and be very vulnerable at the moment - in fact, I'd probably assume they were confused about having feelings for me precisely due to their current extreme emotional instability, which in turn would make me pretty concerned (and I'm not going to get into this here again, as it's already been well discussed - but I believe an experience like the one Iljo has been through is truly extremely traumatic and absolutely not to be underestimated).
I guess I'd probably try to give them time to regain their bearings and try to arrange an alternative place to stay, such as with another family member, try to get them surrounded by other kind and friendly people, possibly consider suggesting some form of therapy, maybe even just try to set them up with somebody. And I'd probably attempt to try and steer our relationship in a clearly "family-like" or "friendly" direction instead. All in all, Iljo is a real sweetheart with a very kind personality – I'd want to remain in contact with someone like that, even if I did not like them romantically, I would want us to try and maybe eventually be more like family one day, because people like that are actually very rare in real life.
So I'd just like to clarify that some of us actually do understand and value the importance of other things as well, instead of preferring to just be “left alone” and “in peace”. Sure, the latter might be less of a “bother” at times, but to me, it seems like a pretty lonely and cold existence as well.
If I could like this comment a hundred times I really really would. Would also like to add that iljo initially had a place to stay, not the best but it was something. If that asshole hadn't been persistent for no reason he would've kept staying as a relative he barely knows. Also hate that iljo was more than likely emotionally abused (maybe physically) and we still don't know how his father treated him later on being that he inherited nothing. But sure Jeonghan is completely in his right to be a manipulative asshole.
Totally agree. Helping others does not give you the right to be a scumbag.
Exactly how I felt and what I think. Thanks for expressing it in such a developped way for many of us.
The few people who disliked your comment are whether stubborn or narrow-minded.
That one (we probably read the same comment) was really quick to label ppl with other views as "14 years old with no grasp of real life" (non verbatim) and I hilariously thought it's probably the other way around.
You have written this well, and idk how others missed this. As far as fictional characters are concerned, I am actually very interested how Jeonghan sees life in his obnoxious lens and I'm looking forward to his future monologues, but I truly cannot agree with the judgment that he hasn't done anything wrong. Because if we're talking about human decency & courtesy, he's far from getting an A. He has been explicitly showing how burdensome it is taking in a freeloader, a decision he is largely at fault. Kudos to him tho, for extending a helping hand, even tho there's not an ounce of sincerity in his actions. *sarcasm here, in case it's missed*
Jeonghan has honestly done nice things, that's a fact, but he's also mean & rude. These can coexist, but some readers are so adamant in just choosing one. These characters are not black and white.
I- You guys, thank you. I was honestly surprised and humbled to find that so many people actually took the time to read this monster of a comment.
(Tbh, I actually felt borderline crazy yesterday for composing such an excessively long comment in the first place. 「(¬▽¬;) I felt like I just had to get it out, but I was also a bit worried I might annoy people by posting something this long here.)
So really, thank you for reading and letting me know I'm not alone in my sentiments. I really appreciate it! (｡'◡'｡)ﾉ
"Also hate that iljo was more than likely emotionally abused (maybe physically) and we still don't know how his father treated him later on being that he inherited nothing."
Right? I also thought that the way he keeps flinching, curling in on himself and making himself smaller all the time kind of does give off a feeling like that. Though at least it really didn't seem like that regarding his relationship with the father, from what we've seen of his childhood so far.. But judging from the memories, I think he may have possibly been severely mistreated / bullied by Jeonghan's other cousins?
Overall, Jeonghan and his other relatives sure seem like a bunch of really "pleasant" people, don't they? (¬¬ ;)
You're right, people who pull the "age card" in this way generally tend to not be very mature themselves. (I suspect that might be because, by a certain age, those people who *are* actually older usually realize it's really not that great of a thing and not necessarily something to be flaunted ╮(￣▽￣)╭ I mean, for my part, I sure wouldn't mind being 14 again, given the chance XD)
And you're very right about the characters being complex and not entirely black and white.(*) I suspect that's one of the reasons why they're so lifelike and why this is actually such a good and engaging read. Though it's at times a bit frustrating, because it's almost making me emphathize a bit too much (I feel like I need Kim Dokja's 4th wall, or something!), I'm still really looking forward to reading more.
(*) (though I still maintain that Iljo is 80-90% an angel, and Jeonghan is 80-90% a jerk )
I've read greensilverscarf as well, you both have wonderful opinions.
+1
I hate how Iljo will always just flinch and keep quiet all the time (no matter what bullshit Jeonghan throws at him), though he's obviously really hurt.
He's always subtly curling in on himself and making himself smaller, like an abused kid. And how Jeonghan actually effing sees this and finds it pathetic and entertaining. He f*ing sees Iljo is *miserable*, and he just deliberately keeps piling on more and constantly guilt-tripping him.
This is an absolute no-go. You either agree / offer to help somebody, or you don't. But deciding of your own free will to do something for someone and then proceeding to constantly imply how burdensome it is for you and guilt-tripping the other person about it is incredibly ill-mannered and rude.
Iljo is so adorable, though. Like a fragile fluffy little baby bird, or something. Like, I bet he could solve his housing problem by just stepping into the street with a sign saying he needs a place to stay, and there'd probably be around 50 squealing girls fighting over who gets to take him in within, like, the first two minutes...
If you ask me, Jeonghan is very much superfluous in that regard ╮(￣▽￣)╭
So the way the story is currently going is pretty frustrating, but the comment section is so filled with genius, on-point and hilarious commentary, it's literally healing. I'm enjoying reading this so much more simply because of all the amazing comments
This is unacceptable. I really hope it turns out that Iljo was supposed to receive that inheritance after all. Actually, scratch that. I wish his mother turns out to have actually unbeknownst to everyone been the runaway only child of some super important family, and he becomes, like, ridiculously rich. The owner of the company that arrogant, conceited little shit works at, preferrably. (¬‿¬)
(Hush. I know, I know. But it's my headcanon. No one can convince me otherwise. ╮(￣▽￣)╭)
(Seriously, just imagine Iljo all wide-eyed (´● ●｀｡) being ushered away by bodyguards while Jeonghan looks on like ( ꒪Д꒪), and the CEO grandfather being like (╥ ╥) "After all this time, I've finally found my grandson! Come my boy, let me look at you. ... You look upset. Has that employee over there been bothering you? ಠ_ಠ")
XD
That guy conveniently following him around with the prepared laundry so that Seungho could make his symbolic gesture at the right moment cracked me up for some reason :D
To anyone who is, like me, a tiny bit disappointed that the hands-down hottest guy in this (you know who I'm talking about), is not the ML but just the brother...
You might want to take a look at ''Father, I don't want to get married!". Granted, unlike this one, so far it seems like it's not overly original plotwise (more of an isekai 'classic', far less dark), but I was pleasantly surprised that the art is actually a real treat, AAAND its ML looks a lot like Dion.
I'm glad. He looks like every generic ML ever. Black hair and red eyes. It's so overdone.
Um, ok, good for you? In my opinion, reducing everything to just haircolor and eyecolor is grossly oversimplifying, though. (And by that logic, Cassis would also be generic, which - also - I think he's not.) Personally, it's the way the eyes are drawn - the look, the lower eyelashes, etc., among other details, that I like about the way Dion looks, and I don't think he looks generic at all. The ML in that other story reminded me of him though, which is why I thought I'd mention this for the fellow readers from the comment section who shared my sentiment that Dion is a bit more to their taste. If you're not one of them, this comment was not addressed at you :)
By the way, just to clarify, I never meant to imply that I don't like this the way it is. For one, they're obviously both total eyecandy anyway, and the story is very unique and interesting. It just felt like a bit of a waste to me personally that the guy I found best-looking is just the brother. But, of course, not everyone has the same taste ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Sorry. Didn’t mean to come off as rude. Was just responding to an opinion with an opinion
Sure, no problem. It just felt a bit odd to me, as the main point of my comment was the rec for people who felt the same (and that reply sort of felt as if I'd instead written something along the lines of "DAmN iT WhYYY ISnT diON tHe ML inSTEAd of CaSSis heS SO muCH hoTTeR tHAN cASSIs!!! WhYYYY?!!", so it caught me a bit off guard ;).
I suppose I did somewhat strongly underline my opinion by the "hands-down hottest" adjective, but again, that was not supposed to be the point / really only aimed at those who felt the same ^^
Cousins? ( >﹏<。) ... *looks at art again* Damnnn, what's with that beautiful art though (ノ><)ノ ... *checks inside* And it's not just the cover, either. (╯_╰)
... Ugh. Screw this. Let's say one of them is originally adopted or... something. *proceeds to self-hypnotize* @_@
About that kiss... I think I'll be withholding judgement for now. Obviously, kissing someone without their consent while they're asleep is *not* cool. But there seems to be a lot that still hasn't been told, and we only have Jeonghan's POV on this for now. Jeonghan seems to be acting quite differently and impulsively when he's drunk, so he may have potentially done or said something he doesn't remember as well. (Also, I'm not 100% clear if he actually full-on kissed him, or just got very close to his face / "nearly" kissed him? Judging by Jeonghan's strong reaction, it seems like the former, but it didn't actually seem clearly visible in the panels...?)
On another note though. I just can't get over how ridiculously adorable Iljo is. o(╥﹏╥)o Iljo, if that guy doesn't want you, just ditch that idiot. You're welcome to stay at this noona's place anytime, for however long you want. (＾－＾)
Damn you, Yan Xie, here you are lucky enough to have the adorable Jiang Ting in your care, and not only do you rudely wake him while he's resting (and looking all *cute* in pajamas) at 6 IN THE MORNING, but also not even make sure he gets proper breakfast?
I am displeased. Very displeased. （￣へ￣）
Seriously, if *I* had Jiang Ting sleeping over at my place, I'd totally coddle him. I'd tiptoe around until he's all good an rested, and then proceed to stuff him with lots of treats and homemade pastries. (๑•ㅂ•)و✧
...
*reads over own comment* Dang it, I'm getting too into this, aren't I? I-it's the art though. Why does it have to be so damn pretty? ╥﹏╥
Finally someone who empethises with me. I mean just look at my baby. He is so neglected. I remember reading in the novel that after meeting YX, JT hardly had time to eat two buns properly in his breakfast as something will always occur while he is in the middle of eating （￣へ￣）
(⊙_⊙) Wait. You mean, this is actually a *regular* occurrence?
Ok, that's it, I've had it with Yan Xie, I warned him! (╬￣皿￣)
I'm confiscating Jiang Ting and feeding him properly （￣へ￣）
I always make sure to have plenty of homebaked goodies at home, so. Will you join in and help? You're invited for tea and cake as well, of course! ヽ(^ᴗ^)ﾉ
I would love to. Thank you very much
However don't worry too much as after falling in love with JT, YX became extra careful about his food and safety. So I don't think JC will actually even come to us in the end.
Ahh, ok. Well that's something, I guess. Thanks for letting me know! (It's great to have insider info from a novel-reader ٩(๑❛ᴗ❛๑)۶)
Well, he can come pick him back up *after* he's learned how to feed him properly (though he'll still remain under strict supervision, since I'm suspicious now) （￣へ￣） XD
Anyway, *until* then, my plan stands. And I wasn't going to ask - not even JT. ╮(︶▽︶)╭ Since this is about our baby's health, so until YX gets his act together, he's coming with and that's final.
I literally just took my Earl Grey quark bundt cake out of the oven a couple minutes ago, so you can come over right away (we can kidnap Jiang Ting on the way), and it'll still be warm. (^ᴗ^)
. Yes let's go with that plan.
Glad I put in the effort to learn hangul - that way I can now make certain the spelling is accurate when dear "daddy" Tae's name goes into the Death Note. ψ(｀∇´)ψ
(After all, as many keep pointing out, "he's a mafia member", so. It's only fitting, right? ¬‿¬)
Seriously though - part of a criminal organization or no - what a sad excuse of a (thankfully fictional) human being!
Rational or not, to me, doing something this awful to your lover, in such an underhanded, disgracefully two-faced manner, seems somehow even lower and more despicable than general mafia-related criminal activity. (And even mafia and similar organizations are often known to value certain basic - albeit sketchy - codes of honor.)
To be clear: not necessarily expecting all sunshine and daisies here, but this is still just plain disgraceful, imho. Taesung crossed a line there, even for a gangster. Especially considering Sooyoung is such a cinnamon roll ╮(￣▽￣)╭
How did this manhwa suddenly go from the cute, seemingly totally innocuous and sweet type to *this*? Honestly, I don't understand the world anymore... (๑•﹏•)