wonuyaaa's Topics (60)

okay wait. whoever said that was REALLY onto something there... cause when Haesoo FINALLY RAN TO JOOWON, what did he say in his monologue?: That he was sorry and regretted wishing that joowon wouldn't fully realize his dreams even for a second.

and if haesoo = the actual dream, then,,,

....omg :o

oh wow you truly made a good point. idk if yeongha intentionally did that but she does so many things with the foreshadowing and symbolism and themes and nearly everything in this story is thought out very well like... i wouldnt be surprised at all if this was the point

yes! you speak only facts, my dude.

FACTS. Haesoo never led Taku on. It was Taku who pressured him into a relationship when he was still in an emotionally weak state after ending things with Joowon. Haesoo warned him he wasn't ready for a relationship but Taku kept on pushing him into starting one with him.
Did the stans think Taku was right to pressure Haesoo into a relationship? And then bash Haesoo for not falling for Taku as if it was a crime for him not to fall for Taku. They had agreed on one month. Taku got his month. Haesoo had every right not to continue with the relationship after the month was over. I also believe he was going to break it off with Taku on the day of Joowon's accident because he actually cared for Taku and knew continuing their relationship would only hurt the both of them. Accident or no accident, he was going to end the relationship and take the much needed time for self reflection. The fact he was going to do so showed he was maturing.
Or what good would it have been to continue the relationship when Haesoo still loved Joowon and couldn't let go of him but decided to remain with Taku and even though Taku had Haesoo he would live knowing he could never fully have him?

Yep, he said Taku reminded him of how he was when he was younger and desperately in love with Joowon, so he didn't want to see him suffer by rejecting him. Taku begged him for that month, and you could see the absolute hesitation in Haesoo's eyes, and THAT is when Taku should have said let me give you time ALONE to figure out YOUR heart, but yeah, that never happened.

Poor Haesoo was struggling thinking of Joowon all the time, and Taku knew it and hated it. He was always testing him about his feelings too even during sex which was creepy to me.

I am just gonna say even as teenagers that Haesoo and Joowon sacrificed their happiness for the greater good. They were miserable, so others wouldn't have to deal with a relationship that was uncomfortable. They were more mature than the parents who would rather just see their kids miserable by pulling them apart and forcing them to go through the same in the future all over again, and BOTH knew that this relationship was deep and real, and I honestly don't think they felt it was gonna disappear with distance which makes it even more cruel and selfish.

The difference is one was delusional (Taku) and one was real love (I still question if Taku even understands the concept of love and is lacking that maturity), no way are they comparable, but in his Haesoo's mind, he compared them because he thought his love was pitiful and didn't really exist which that was his fear and insecurity talking not the truth. By admitting that Joowon truly loved him, then, their relationship would be real, and I think that scared him more than anything because that is ultimate test of vulnerability for someone like Haesoo.

Taku was more than happy to push that along by messing with Haesoo and Joowon every chance he got manipulating them emotionally. IF that's your ideal....

Finallyyy!!! Some one who gets it! I’ve been saying this since I first read this!

There are a couple of symbolic panels that really give the essence of the dynamics between each of H&T and H&J. Author is trying to show us, but will everyone notice?

Panel H&J: shows Haesoo’s slender leg and delicate foot toying with Joowon’s tie, which is in a choking position, as Joowon is flat on the ground. Joowon is at Haesoo’s mercy, he is literally at the bottom of their relationship.

Panel H&T: shows Taku in a relaxed, carefree position while toying with a red ribbon tied to Haesoo’s foot. His little foot is upside down, like he’s lying on his face, can’t see and doesn’t understand what’s happening.

Haesoo always had the upper hand with Joowon. On the other hand, Haesoo was fooled by Taku’s superficial charm, never really understanding his motivations.

Haesoo wasn't fooled. He knew the second he met him who Taku was at the end of the day (smutty exhibitions, sex tape, kink over his relationship with his stepbrother), and sadly, he was the perfect weapon to remove himself from what he deemed to be a dead end relationship with Joowon. The first time they kissed was when who was outside waiting for Haesoo again? He made sure to drive him around in Joowon's car, brag about the kissing, et cetera.

It was a desperate move made out of loneliness and insecurity nothing else. He was never going to be anything but a poor substitute for the relationship he had abandoned, and if anything, Taku was a tool to make him realize that which made him a means to an end, never going to get Haesoo and never going to get the happy ending. Taku ended up being a disgruntled therapist who never received the answer he wanted when he would question Haesoo or see he was somewhere else just by looking into his eyes.

As for Joowon, he was choking on his own insecurity regarding Haesoo not as much as Haesoo controlling him but his inability to tell Haesoo he loved him because he was scared of being abandoned again. To me that is what that picture represented not necessarily that Haesoo was controlling him because Joowon was also playing the game right back to a certain extent. They were downplaying what they had until this third party came in and allowed Haesoo an escape route which forced Joowon to come to terms with how he felt and be honest in that hotel room.

If you look at another set of panels, you have Taku on the radio, Joowon calling Haesoo, and Haesoo telling the driver to turn down Taku's interview, so he can hear Joowon. Taku was that background noise never in the true real picture of the story. He thought he was going to be a puppeteer, but he ended up becoming a toxic supporting character while the other two were growing and learning what they meant to each other until they could be reunited and drown out the background noise not only from Taku but also their own insecurities about their love for each other.

I appreciate the thoughtful commentary, and I mostly agree. Even that which I don’t has given me more reason to re-read because it’s persuasive.

I think Haesoo’s initial impression of T was that which you described, but it evolved such that he saw himself in this guy, and he came to believe that he wasn’t a bad person (in spite of Taku’s admissions that he was). Just not the person for him, as he says when he’s poised to break up on that bench. You’re in the right place, even though I’m not the right model.That’s not to say that he was correct, because their motivations and feelings for the object of their affection so to speak were very different (T to H and H to T). Even at the end, he does feel guilty, because T has that affect on him, just like when he felt guilty about the bitterness of his kiss. Of course, it’s not love and never would be, that’s why he wasn’t moved in any dramatic way and could wish him well in the face of all the spiteful recriminations. I do think T had a certain power to beguile, deflect, ingratiate that was effective, but I don’t believe H necessarily recognized it as such, or even if he did, that it was such a negative quality. (I don’t see Haesoo as a kindred spirit necessarily, I think it’s more learned affectation and/ or modeling himself after his mother.) Hence I still see that panel shows that he doesn’t fully understand that he’s being manipulated.

I definitely see an imbalance of power in the relationship between H and J, though. On the surface, sure it feels like J is playing along because he agreed to it and wants it that way. But I don’t think that’s exactly true, I think he convinced himself it’s all fine because it’s the only way they can be together. And yes that’s true for Haesoo as well. But at a minimum Joowon wasn’t happy with Haesoo’s constant flings, and I don’t think that was really up for negotiation. I know Haesoo was trying to fill a void in many respects, but it still doesn’t change that imbalance. I also feel like it’s implied that Joowon was not sleeping with anyone else. And of course Joowon got that ring before T was a known rival (like anything more than the usual fling). I also felt like the only reason joowon wasn’t there for Haesoo when he was lonely, etc is because the man had career commitments. That’s only what was ever shown, he had filmings, interviews, etc not that he was out partying and not thinking about H. And when and where is Haesoo sacrificing anything for Joowon, it’s really one-sided as presented. Bringing it back to that panel, Haesoo is poised to step on Joowon’s chest, they are not on the same level. I see disparity.

The radio scene, yes, it’s clear T was just background noise, a distraction from the main character in Haesoo’s heart.

I will agree that, yes, Haesoo thought he saw a kindred spirit in Taku being that he felt his relationship with Joowon was all about him, and Joowon was just along for the ride. Even in that latest flashback, I can see Haesoo initially hearing that where he says I want to get close to you as the then what happens after that are you gonna discard me. I think he was both intrigued and absolutely petrified in that moment.

Haesoo saw himself as desperate for Joowon, but he never considered that Joowon was just as desperate for him because he was stuck on one particular conversation where he felt rejected. Joowon was this cool, popular guy that felt a tad out of reach, and he wanted him to bring him down to Haesoo's insecure level not knowing that Joowon was really in that same spot just looking for love and acceptance which is why IMHO they fell for each other in the first place.

I also feel Haesoo focused on the negative because a lot of his existence was dysfunctional a dad who abandoned the family and a mother who couldn't accept him for who he was ATEOTD. He didn't know how to properly gauge their relationship because he had nothing to positive to compare it to in his life, and thus, he was always waiting to be abandoned again, so he would leave first. He couldn't see the big picture where Joowon was concerned and only heard the negatives and mostly importantly Joowon telling him not to fall for him.

That was the one thing that Taku did help was allow Haesoo to see a clearer picture of their relationship, and how not only was it not toxic, but he missed it, craved it and was not the same without it (his mother noticing he was losing weight for instance). The longer they were apart, the more easily he could appreciate what made their relationship work, and the more pathetic Taku became in his attempt to pull him back in again.

I also will agree that with the extraneous relationships Joowon had to give into that or risk losing him. I really wish the author would explore that time when they came back together because I feel like right away Haesoo was trying to create a distance. Joowon would pull him back in again, and they would continue to do that dance until finally Taku came in, and Haesoo's constant memory about being rejected and the constant pressure of worrying about his mother's happiness became too much for him to handle.

If you look at shortly after he caught Hasesoo and Taku in the car, he says when they are having sex to be available for him, don't ignore my calls, don't cancel on me because you say you need me. I think deep down Joowon always knew that Haesoo would always love him even if he pushed him away, he felt that in his soul, but he also felt that Haesoo was running away from it because that's what he did and continued to do the entirety of their relationship even as teenagers using others to protect himself which we saw in flashbacks.

I guess in that sense there was that imbalance because Joowon was unable to stop wanting Haesoo and would accept him any way he could get him, and Haesoo was always running away being chased by Joowon. I think Haesoo needs that kind of relationship though because any other one there was this imbalance where he was chasing (sorry I don't include Taku because that wasn't a real relationship), so Joowon is the one person that has proven to him that he's worthy of being chased and loved unconditionally.

More on Haesoo breakup with T, I think this scene shows a lot about their dynamic. H was just going to quickly break it off, which is indicated by him saying he didn’t need to come inside since what he had to say would only take a minute. And yet somehow he ended up standing there longer than he would have liked, while T was saying anything he could to make him feel guilty and confused. Of course it didn’t work because Haesoo has the resolve and clear sight of what’s important and that he needs to go after it. But I think he did feel guilty, nonetheless, so he shed some tears and kept apologizing- because even with the understanding of who he truly loves and can’t be without, this other guy was still able to make him feel like he wronged him (even though he did not).

What does ATEOTD mean?
Good points about Haesoo’s feelings of abandonment by his dad affecting how he felt some validation in being pursued, thus being worthy of love. Of course we know Joowon had abandonment issues as well, which made Haesoo’s words during the breakup cut even more. He knew he loved him, like you said, but that confidence must have been shaken at that point. When he said, among other things, I don’t love you enough to deal with all of this, I think both of them believed it (even though it wasn’t true). And yet Joowon still accepted it, let him go, and respectfully offered to be there for him in whatever capacity he needed or wanted. (That subsequent phone call was so cold, even though Haesoo wasn’t saying what he really felt.) Asking for nothing in return, taking hits on his personal character and career to shield him.

Ha, ha, at the end of the day. :)

I also think at this point Haesoo was growing enough to know every relationship forced or fated has to be ended properly. He felt horrible leaving Joowon without that years ago, and he wasn't going to do it again. He never wanted to hurt Taku. Taku set himself up for everything he felt in that moment though, so my sympathy really doesn't exist for him in the story. I just don't feel at this point Taku truly understood love, but now he would truly understand loss.

Okayyy so I read a lot of what you two wrote (@Tortugas @notyouraveragegirl), and about the "power" imbalance between Haesoo and Joowon... I felt that way too, and this is why: it's all about where their priorities lie (err more like fears).

Joowon would NEVER be the first to break their r/s off because his main fear was losing Haesoo and being abandoned by him. This is why it seems like he's literally willing to be whatever Haesoo WANTS HIM AS, just so they so they can stay together.
A: Joowon *believes* Haesoo wants an ambiguous relationship? Joowon will accept that. Because, correct me if I'm wrong: Joowon was the first to impose the ambiguous relationship as he thought Haesoo will abandon him otherwise, right? It was nothing to do with convenience for his career, or relationship with his dad or whatever??
B: Haesoo pushes him to be possessive or controlling? Joowon will act that way until it becomes second nature in their relationship.
C: Haesoo wants him only as a hyung/friend? Joowon struggled with this one, but said he would be that too.
Meanwhile Haesoo... his main fear was losing his mom on account of their relationship. That's literally his main reason for going to Taku. That's why Haesoo would always be the one to opt out of their relationship first, especially the moment the remarriage was brought up, and it would never be Joowon.

I guess the "imbalance" overall is extremely unclear to many readers though, because Haesoo is so very insecure. He questions Joowon's every move and his head is full of "Joowon doesnt really care" "Joowon doesnt love me" "Joowon isn't here when I truly need him" "I'm scared Joowon will be unreachable (regarding his career)" "I'm the only one suffering". Though deeper down, I think Haesoo knows that he's just being in denial. So in the end it really does not matter how aloof, or how caring Joowon acts: Haesoo will STILL dismiss it (again: as a way to not feel guilty towards his mom!)

This is why, I think the only sure way for them to end up together was if Haesoo goes after Joowon FIRST, and not the other way around. Hence the whole: Haesoo running to the hospital and about to confess first. Like the cards were always in Haesoo's hands. Even if Joowon genuinely confessed first, would Haesoo have accepted his feelings??? It's honestly unclear. I think the time they spent apart in this story is what made Haesoo realize he 100% could not lose Joowon and would rather go against his mom's wishes. But without the time spent apart....? idk about that lol. Haesoo likely would EVENTUALLY come around but it would again require the distance, idk. Meanwhile, if Haesoo told Joowon he loved him and genuinely wanted to be with him at ANY point in time, even years ago: I think Joowon would ALWAYS accept it in a heartbeat. And this is because, (again, correct me if im wrong here): Joowon's only real reason for keeping their r/s ambiguous is because he believed Haesoo will leave him otherwise. So if Haesoo is saying to make it official, doesnt that directly dissolve his fears altogether???

Anyway yeah, hopefully what I said was clear enough lol

I just want to add: theres a line in the story where Haesoo said something like: "Whether you tell me you love me or not, I won't believe you" ...so yeah, I think it's true that no matter how caring or loving Joowon is, Haesoo would stay in denial of Joowon's feelings for him. In the end its about his own perception, not Joowon's actions.

Yes, well expressed as usual! And yes, ultimately Joowon would do anything or be anything Haesoo wants. That’s the power he has over him, and that’s why I’m not convinced that “what they agreed upon, the terms of” their ambiguous relationship could actually be considered mutual in the drafting, so to speak. That’s not to say that Joowon didn’t get overly confident in assuming H would always prioritize him, no matter what. I think he believed, like you said, that he was acting within the capacity that Haesoo wanted.

Joowon’s dad was a terrible parent, but he was very astute at recognizing the overwhelming influence that Haesoo had over his son. Remember when he told Haesoo’s mother that he was worried for his son because he’d ruin himself for Haesoo, I think it was when they were plotting to keep them apart by re-marrying.

I totally agree it had to be Haesoo coming back to Joowon, not the other way around. I feel like I’m one of a few who found that whole car accident arc to be pretty dramatic and fun. I never thought it made sense for Joowon to confess in a card, give it to Haesoo with a bunch of flowers during that exhibition, of all times/ places. Not unless there had been some indication that Haesoo was struggling and unhappy- we know that as the reader, but there wasn’t any reason or interactions for Joowon to understand that. And the time apart certainly makes sense for Haesoo’s growth, realization of self-worth and goals, not just for himself but also to have the kind of healthy, loving relationship he wants with his lovely Joowon. And this is better for Joowon, too. I just don’t think it quite meshes with the near- death scenario very well. So those are a few flaws in the plot for me, I think author was rushed in sorting out some of these details.

I’m sure he didn’t want to hurt Taku and was trying to let him down easily. Still I don’t think he wanted to take that long in doing so. (And yes, he must’ve been racked with remorse over leaving without saying anything when his mom dragged him out like a thief in the night. It wasn’t even his fault!) It’s a pretty stark contrast with Joohae breakup, for lots of reasons. I think the most accepted view of events is that he was trying to push Joowon away so that everything would be acceptable and easy for his mother and the outside world. Which I definitely agree with. But at the same time, I feel like their relationship as portrayed in the story reflects that Haesoo has found Joowon to be an outlet for his frustrations. I don’t mean to imply that’s a major aspect of their relationship, but I do see it there. (We’re mostly shown the negative elements of them, with the positive ones only being alluded to, like all the times H was there to comfort J in the past, or when H makes that realization when he’s with T.) Even if it goes unrecognized, there’s that feeling of a safe space in the person who will unconditionally accept you, even as you’re venting or showing your “worst” side. This also ties in with Haesoo’s feelings of inferiority, that everything comes easy for Joowon, and so he can take it. I also think he came to view himself as a bad person, not worthy of love, and maybe someone who did love him was suspect? Obviously, these unhealthy aspects of their relationship will be washed away through self-reflection, gaining a sense of purpose, fulfillment of goals/ dreams etc. and I’m so glad we’re seeing it at last!

(Also, totally agree re: understanding loss as opposed to love on T’s end.)

I feel like if a confession DID happen at the exhibit, it would've been Haesoo saying it *first* after he read the card, since Joowon didnt actually confess in the card. It only makes sense with everything that Haesoo has been feeling, and the conversation he had to with Taku on the park bench. Imo it would definitely feel off if Joowon said it first, when as you said: he doesnt really know the situation with Haesoo and how he's doing with Taku. People (the annoying ones) might even say Joowon is trying to push his feelings onto Haesoo so that he breaks it off with Taku or whatever.

I do also think the decision for Haesoo to spend time by himself abroad, and the life threatening situation with Joowon didn't fit together perfectly-- especially when they're shown to happen one after the other (and ofc we have no idea if there was a gap in time between those 2 events). but well... i'm willing to let it slide ig lol. i'm happy with everything else that transpired between them haha. i'm glad they can foolishly love each other forever now lol

Joowon is the quintessential yaoi whipping boy- he bears the brunt of all the fujo ire for every wrongdoing of every “seme” that’s ever occurred. I just can’t make any other sense of it!

If he pulled that stunt of the photog, lashing out with ill wishes for Haesoo during the breakup, he’d have been torn to pieces by this pack of vicious curs. The freaking double standard! Makes me love him even more!!

Ive long considered him to be that character that’s only savored and appreciated by the most discerning reader with the finest palate. Joowon stans united, can never be defeated.

You're right about all that.

Anyway, I know Joowon stans are the only bitches with proper reading comprehension lol. Just because Joowon shows some qualities of typical "asshole seme": aka being more aggressive and possessive, doesn't mean his whole character can be watered down to that lmaoo. Like first of all: his possessiveness is literally explained WORD FOR WORD in the story, as being due to haesoo's manipulative nature. Either way, he literally grows sooo much and sheds all his immaturity and arrogance over the course of the story and lets haesoo leave him as many times as he wants to like ? this man would li tterally take a bullet for haesoo and ppl want to make up baseless narratives as if he only does whats convenient for himself, when throughout the WHOLE STORY he keeps doing what is inconvenient for himself just for haesoo's sake?? ? like what is so convenient for him when he loses his whole drama and so many contracts and gets yelled at by the company and tied up for 10 years when he wanted to quit? lolol

Meanwhile, Taku is a GREAT character for surface level readers who can't see him past his "cute character design" and acting all quiet and softspoken and thoughtful: when this boy is so emotionally manipulative and calculative as hell (like that scene where joowon gets his hand injured is literally cause of taku was trying to make joowon snap and lose his composure??? ugh please). He only ever does what's convenient for himself. even loving haesoo was for HIMSELF, since he knew so clearly how haesoo loved someone else, and instead said he liked seeing haesoo sad cause he gets to feel good being needed LMAO

I understand the need to rant.
I honestly, never really understood why Joowon was branded as toxic and deserving of the extreme bashing he got. I understand he made mistakes in his relationship with Haesoo. But this was a relationship they had both agreed upon. It was an unhealthy relationship without a doubt. But this was because they did not voice out what they really felt and ended up hurting each other, thinking the other didn't love them as much when the reality was they loved each other so much. They both made mistakes, but why was Joowon the only one being bashed?

Also, Taku being considered a saint was something I couldn't understand. I thought I was strange for not seeing the saint he was but I just couldn't like him after his stunt using his tape to get to Haesoo. It left a bad taste in my mouth. His character didn't even get better as I continued to read. Yet somehow he was seen as a great guy but Joowon who actually cared about Haesoo was continuously bashed.

At 100 chapters, if toxicity levels were being measured, I'd say out of the 3, Joowon was always the least problematic. Yet if someone had read the comments before, they would think Joowon was some kind of terrible villain that victimized poor Haesoo and the sweet loving pure Taku came to save poor Haesoo from Joowon's evil clutches. I want to gag just writing that.

Anyway, I'm happy JooHae conquered but the scars left on Joowon fans run deep. Thankfully, the latest chapters are a form of healing which we really needed.

Please say it louder because you’re full of facts!

so true so true! i will never ever understand why joowon was labelled the villain in the story, when in their relationship: haesoo hurt him just as much. but it was clear it was their situation that was messed up, and they werent hurting each other for the sake of hurting each other. ALSO: if you sum up all of their actions by this point in the story: Joowon is literally the least problematic. He never did things with shit intentions the way Taku did, nor did he use or toy with Haesoo like people claim. That was actually Taku. Joowon's only reason for wanting them to stay without labels is not to "toy with" or "use" haesoo but because he wanted to protect their r/s from their parents and thought haesoo would abandon him otherwise (again, because of their parents, specifically his mom).

louder for the people in the back!

What?

i said what i said lol

Wait no I literally read it wrong lmao sorry for the disturbance have a good day king/queen

hahah I agree, also why did u get seven dislikes umm

Uploader appreciation club, sign me up!

theyre mad i found the taku meme funny

Seriously... It would have been better if they simply said they didn't like Joohae instead of making groundless claims.

Weeell, it's not like yoowon stans make the comment section all rainbows and sunshine either lol...

*joowon

Well I don’t think we’re the ones *starting* it most of the time tho :///

*Joowon

aye this comment! well said~