Nancy

cause it’s foreign for ian to feel that type of love, the domestic newlywed type of love where you just want to spend more and more time with that person, ian letting his guard down when he’s with jo while with tj he always tense and in fight mode, IAN DOES NOT hate jo’s presence, in chapter 62 he in fact feel so comfortable with jo that when he look at jo in front of his apartment he regrets not buying jo flowers cause jo like them,

I wouldn't say so...? Seems like Ian had that "smitten" type of vibe with TJ between their first time and when it went to shit, that's probably the biggest smile we've seen on him. But that's beside the point, which is: it doesn't seem like "domestic newlywed type of love" at all from this chapter. Ian doesn't look happy at any point, let alone ecstatic, and never expresses anything like what you described. While there might be a 'I've never experienced the regular dating experience' confusion aspect to that, he doesn't look excited at the prospect of continuing like that. I didn't say he hates Jo's presence, and he certainly doesn't hate Jo, but he looks uncomfortable, and it doesn't really seem like "letting his guard down", more like monotony. Like I said, it feels stifling, like he's trapped and unsure. What I'm saying is the comments make it seem like a very wholesome happy chapter, when it doesn't give those vibes at all, and I have given my reasons. "Always tense and in fight mode" is a big stretch considering we saw Ian being tender and smiling with TJ. I'm not sure if you meant to compare their relationships or just Ian's general state of usually high awareness to how he describes his senses dulling now. Because he does let his guard down with TJ, but I get that it can be confusing for his life to suddenly hit a lull when most of the time he had to be on his toes. The scene when he regrets not buying the flowers is quite nice, but that's not this chapter, it's after he had the much needed breather. That's partly why I don't like this chapter, Ian just feels so much more like Ian after he got to talk with Toby and take a walk by himself. I'm also not sure how it would showcase his level of comfort when they barely talk in that scene and he didn't buy the flowers, as in he didn't feel the urge to make a romantic gesture before that. For me it seems like he felt it was nice to come home to someone greeting him, saw Jo in a new light, we'll have to wait for how their relationship changes from there.

no matter how you want to look it, their relationship would never work, tj and ian want different things, they have 19 years to make it work and nothing has changed. Someone already clocked the ending since wet sand is about growth, tj’s growth is gonna have to let go ian, while ian’s growth is to finally able to love himself more and jo’s growth is not seeing life as black and white. ian is definitely gonna end up with jo cause unlike tj, no matter how complicated the situation gets, jo would never risk putting ian’s life in danger and always prioritize his feelings, we saw how shitty tj act for the past 16 years in the flashbacks and he only started regretting his decision now when he’s 34. let it go

Well, that's your opinion. I'm not gonna let mine go just because you said so lol
They want the same things just have different ways of achieving it. A safe haven and a stable relationship.
"jo would never risk putting ian’s life in danger and always prioritize his feelings" the first one I feel is wrong (again, we'll have to wait and see), the second one I know for a fact is wrong because he prioritizes his own feelings all the time. Ian hooking up? Jo moralizing because he doesn't think it's right. Ian explaining that he needs it to sleep because he can't take meds? Jo blowing up at him and accusing him of lying. Ian wanting to talk to TJ? Jo interrupting. Ian siding with TJ? Jo changing the subject because that's not what he wanted. Ian opening up about TJ? Jo taking the chance to advise him to let go because he's possessive. Ian needing comfort? Jo leaving him alone because his pride is hurt since he's not getting enough attention. Ian being exhausted? Jo wants to fuck anyways. There might be more that I'm forgetting. And there's also the broken promises: "I'll never ask you to change or demand all of your attention" -> "[...] don't do this with anyone else. Only do it with me from now on." (and then literally sticking to him) and "If everyone dodges conflict by avoiding the situation [...] I'm not going to avoid anything. No matter what happens. I promise." -> "I've wanted to ask him so many things ever since that day. But I haven't been able to say anything out of fear that my anxiety would only grow." (there's one chapter between those, didn't take him long. this one's also so shady considering that he knew that TJ came back to talk about the situation but he himself interrupted it.)

they don’t want the same thing actually, tj enjoyed the dangerous life (described in the trailer) and ian want to shatter and escape that dangerous life, in chapter 61 we saw how ian described tj changed he specifically said “tj wants power and money and it’s never enough for him” ian wanted a simple life and not power and money, younger ian wanted a relationship with tj and tj can’t give it to him cause he prioritized being in a gang instead of ian, jo is actually giving ian the simple life and the label he wants, but ian being too long in that toxic environment feel foreign about simple romantic things jo showers him with, jo is no saint we already know that from his inner monologue, but so far we see how jo’s actions never hurt ian in a way that ruins his life, you can see it from when ian remembers tj, he always remembers the bad past and never a pleasant memory, while with jo he keeps remembering the new stuff he experienced with, and now in the latest chapter even better cause ian remembers jo likes flowers and he regrets not buying one for jo. for 19 years together, not once i see a pleasant memory of tjian together or funny moment together and that alone speaks volume, their relationship is just coping sex and trauma “beast licking each other’s wound”

I agree but I also don't. the differences you mentioned are what I meant when I said "different ways". i'm not sure Ian could get a peaceful life without TJ having a strong position in the gang, and he says so himself. in chapter 61 while he was hurt he also understood TJ's position. "jo’s actions never hurt ian in a way that ruins his life" is highly debatable to me. let's leave it at that. "never a pleasant memory" is false tho. we've seen them as friends, we've seen them smile at each other, we've seen their first time even if the circumstances weren't ideal, we've seen Ian speaking fondly of their past. and idk what's that about "he keeps remembering", he barely mentions them and they're the current events so ofc we get some insight.

ian could actually get a peaceful life if he’s away for a long time from tj, that’s why he asked to part away from tj for 3-4 years, their first time ain’t a pleasant memory miss girl, ian literally is still traumatized from his first kill, he said it himself he could look for other guy if tj doesn’t want to have sex with him. his first time having sex with tj is just his way of coping with his trauma, in that same event ian also find a way to finally forget momentarily about his trauma through sex, that’s why he said he needs to tire himself with sex to be able to sleep. that ain’t pleasant memory,

"that’s why he asked to part away from tj for 3-4 years" That was his inner thoughts and he thinks about both his /and/ TJs best interest. Did it never occur to you that he never left? That he never decided when or where he's leaving to? That he didn't want to go abroad because he wanted to stay near TJ? That he leaves things at TJs place? That he was supposed to leave after the funeral but /decided/ to stay? That he thinks he ruined TJs life because of his low self-esteem and that he's /selfish/ for not leaving? That he had to lie to cut contact? That he instantly regretted it, wanted to make amends, waited for a call? That he was anguished that TJ made the decision to cut-off contact? Maybe he would have a peaceful life without TJ but he doesn't want that, he doesn't want to leave TJ.

As I said, the circumstances were not ideal but they were clearly 'pleased'. "he said it himself he could look for other guy if tj doesn’t want to have sex with him" Are you for real? Because that point is hilarious. If he wanted he could find any other guy, it would be easier, it wouldn't alter an existing relationship. He said that because TJ was hesitating and he wanted to spur him into action. He said he /knows/ he's crossing the line of their relationship and there's no coming back, he wanted to do that. Where exactly is that agenda of him doing it to forget the trauma coming from? He said he killed David, he's free from him, he's free to finally do something out of his own volition. Also if he didn't want to be with TJ he wouldn't be jealous and distraught when it went to shit.

Anyways. We have drifted quite far from the original point of the discussion. Are you able to actually discuss anything that has to do with Jo or are you keep going to steer the conversation from what I say to TJ? It seems like no matter what I write your response will be "flower" and whataboutTJism.

that’s literally how trauma bond works it’s sad that ian have to feel that way because ian said it himself tj is the only family he has. and sure we can talk about jo, it is in fact a cute domestic moment with jo, the fact that ian doesn’t mind jo staying at his place when he himself have the power to tell jo to leave like what he did after their first time together :) and sure jo stayed close to ian for many reasons he likes ian and its normal to want to stay close with him, yes he also have anxiety and jealousy but that’s a normal thing to feel when you’re catching feelings with a person who likes to sleep around and doesn’t take relationships seriously,

Hit the points right on the spot!! Love your arguments, especially highlighting the fact that wetsand is about growth!! I see a lot of people missing that

Argument so good i legit have to follow you for this bangers bro keep dropping this good ass opinions