I've read chapter 11 about 50 million times but I still wait patiently, like a good fujoshi, scanlator-sama. Keep up the good work!
This is probably a good time to reread Gusari sensei Haikyuu djs.
Only Harada could make me feel even a twinge of sympathy for a character like Niichan. It's interesting to see observations of the "beautiful" ending. It seemed rather pitiful to me. Up to the very last moment Niichan was obsessed with Mai's father. Once he realised that improbable reunion was never going to happen he resigned himself to his only other option. At the end he looks like nothing more than an animated shell: worn down, worn out, submissive, with hardly a trace of his former spirit...and finally showing his age lol.
I completely agree. I don't that ending as fluffy at all. Not that it would be better if they were all lovely dovely but I think a lot of people misunderstood what Harada wanted ending to be.
I'm so relieeeved this had a happy ending. I was so worried, I couldn't even enjoy the sex scenes lololol.
I can enjoy it more on the rereads (≧∀≦)
Right there with you...(－.－)
I feel so tired after reading this bc my heart is just now ready to calm down after the happy end...
I can't believe people can be so much alike! LOL! I had to go back and re-read the whole thing because on my first round, I was too tense waiting for the worst! Thank the yaoi gods for the happing ending...(〜￣△￣)〜
I admit, I came down here to make sure it was happy before I read it. >.> I'm glad I did (and, thus, glad I read it).
...every time someone trots out the extremely simplified "fiction is fiction and separate from real life" response to the recurrent issues in BL stories. Certainly, by 7th grade we were already taking a deeper look at fiction. Picking out themes, looking at how the writer's life influenced the story. etc Even the fairy tales!
Sorry teachers! LOL. Keep on fighting the good fight.
just need to point out that BL is different from the type of literature you're talking about. they don't teach BL in school so i beg to differ. indeed, fictional works are influenced by the author's life, but the context of what the translators' note pointed out is that real life morals do not apply to the BL world.
All creators have brains and personalities and (as far as I know) are human beings living on planet earth in human societies. Therefore it's pretty over-the-top ridiculous (and disturbing if you carefully consider your position, please do) to imply that BL mangakas are creating their stories in some kind of petri dish with no connection to themselves or the real world at all.
To break it down in its simplest form: this story has a college/university setting with the unrequited love trope. We *only* understand this because IRL we have...colleges and universities and we are emotionally developed enough to *understand* the concept of crushes and unrequited love. The characters display different moral understandings of what it means to be faithful to their feelings and honest with themselves--and the only way the writer could put that in and we understand it is because IRL *we* have similar thoughts. Obviously, characters and story are made up, hence fiction; and they things resolve according to certain conventions, hence BL.
Now, you can state that in certain fiction the writers create a different moral framework--but the only way we recognise that difference is by *comparing* it to ours in the real world. It is perfectly *valid* to question that choice, to reason about it. If JK Rowling had created a Harry Potter series in which Voldemort was supposed to be the hero with whom we identify, and Harry Potter the villain, it would be perfectly valid to question that choice, even if Rowling said, "Boo boo, your real life morals don't apply, nyaa." And that's a story about WIZARDS. BL features gay/bi/trans persons--all of whom exist!
Stories are stories are stories are stories. They may have different tropes and require different approaches but human creations are human creations. Whether it's fairy tales or BL comics they *all* reflect--to varying degrees--something about the creators, the readers and the social contexts from which they spring. To deny this is to deny their humanity and ours. Your position is, no doubt, precisely WHY so many LGBTQ person have a problem with yaoi--it's this reaaally over the top erasure of not only the group depicted (who exist IRL heeellloooo how do you even know what gay/bi/trans is otherwise) but the writers. It's icky, please stop lol.
Your lit teachers are giving you life skills, y'all. Plllleeease don't think the techniques learnt are only for "real literature" like Shakespeare and Kawabata Yasunari. (Obv you adjust where appropriate but the general approach holds.)
Having state all that, does this mean we are not allowed, or are somehow bad persons for liking fiction that doesn't have the right kind of morals, as we define it? No. Certainly, romance and erotica have a loooooooong history of exploring the dark and taboo.
For persons to discuss stuff. Persons find others who post about x all the time annoying. Persons find others going gushy over y all the time annoying. Neither group is more special than the other or deserves more space or ought to be shuttled off to a special section or *whatever*.
If everyone took their own advice about "ignoring anything you don't like to read" -- whether it's the manga or negative opinions -- apparently you'd be happier! But you all insist on reading whatever you like on this site meant for reading, sharing and discussion. It's like you're all persons and stuff who know how to use a website and have opinions.
My wish-upon-a-star is that persons would stop acting as if they're doing others a favour by doling out "advice" on what they should or not read or should or should not talk about here. It's not the positive/negative/in-between opinions that get to me, it's the policing. You're not moderators. If people wanna gush don't tell em to shut up or don't read it. If people wanna critique don't tell em to shut up or don't read it. Or maybe lead by example...? (It'll never happen, I know (￣∇￣").)
It's like you read my mind! You put it in words! I love your comment!
Yubin, sweetie, he's not gonna let you go, don't sweat it. You're worried for nothing lol.
I'm glad there are more volumes to give them characters more room to grow bc the ending was very abrupt.
How is it possible for there to be any "magazine" with a 500 year history...!?!?! Is this an AU? This is going to bug me forever lol.
Clear as DAY from the first encounter that he was an abusive, manipulative, rapist asshole with boundary issues. But for some folks if the victim isn't getting knocked around it's the same as pressuring someone to buy Girl Scout cookies.
And miss me with the "he was sexually aroused so he secretly wanted it" talk.
Fingers crossed this development is handled well. Kokoro O Korosu Houhou is already taking its toll. I can't handle another one like it (⊙…⊙ ). (Not that Kashio sensei isn't handling it well just...I want happiness *ugly cries*.)
love you for this, exactly how I perceive it as well, thank you for being a voice of reason here!
Really liking how this manhwa is handling the trauma of an abuse (and most likely rape, judging by what's been hinted at so far) victim, looking forward to seeing how it developes!
Ah, yeah. I remember that unfortunate simil. Comparing that issues with food...its not the first time I read thing like this. *sigh*
Sangbae was manipulative and became abusive (which is no shock), but while it is not Sun Hwa's fault, Sun Hwa is not standing up for himself and defining his boundaries even now that it's gotten worse. It's moved from pressuring and pushing boundaries into full on bullying. Now we have to see what Sun Hwa chooses to do. I don't think Sun Hwa is entirely sure about what he wants, and that makes it easier to push him around.
Naaah. You're rationalising and using all kinds of euphemisms to pretty up what Sunabe is doing. Bae didn't push and bend he crossed it. Period. From the first encounter. Sun Hwa expressed in clear, complete sentences, what he wants and does not want.
Ch. 12, Pg. 23: "Please move your hand, Sunbae." Did he? No. Instead he shoved his head on to Sun Hwa's dick. Sunbae acknowledges this by stating on Ch. 13 pg. 5: "You keep on saying 'no' but....".
More Ch. 17, Pg. 8: "Sunbae, we agreed not to do this in school." And basically, everything that follows after.
There is no magical number of Nos that one has to state before it finally hits the nonconsensual standard. Not trying to punch the abuser's lights out is not a passive "yes".
The dynamics of their relationship is exactly why most rape occurs when the abuser knows the victim. Why? They take advantage of the personal connection and familiarity in order to force them into situations...and afterwards the victim is far less likely to report it because doing is more likely to disrupt what was previously their safe social circle, nevermind the fact that they'll have to deal with the disbelief.
And the top detail that makes an abuse victim's recovery much harder is when they experience sexual arousal/climax. Sunbae is on point in that regard as abusers always always always use that to confuse and persuade the victim that they were asking for it even when the words "No" come out of their mouths repeatedly. But sexual arousal or climax is not consent. In the same way person can verbally consent to enduring physical pain (the body's alarm system) is the same way someone can verbally refuse to give consent despite arousal (the body's pleasure signals).
Really, what the writer has done here is a classic situation to anyone who has read on or had any experience with abuse victims. Forget that, anyone who has read a few reports about campus sexual assault.
No means no (excluding situations with safe words or at least an understanding of each partner's kinks which happens after *communication* not witnessing a masturbation session). Boundary set. We love the trashy yaoi that pushes and breaks all kinda boundaries, and if it's written well we get the fantasy that the creator is going for. The Finder series is one of my favourites and it's got crazy over the top nonconsensual sex...I ain't pretending to be different. But I can enjoy problematic things without making excuses for it.
We're not gonna agree on this so I leave it there.
*standing ovation* wow omg i agree with you!!! couldn't have said it better myself!!(づ￣ ³￣)づ
Ooops sorry no wrong comment, i meant to post it on another comment i apologize XD
LOL. It's okay (⌒▽⌒).
Thanks :). Yeah, I have my fingers crossed for this one. Some great BL coming from the manhwa scene.
I am not "prettying up" or excusing Sunbae. He's an asshole. What I am doing is recognizing Sun Hwa's power to make choices--and he does make them.
If you are going to bring real life into it, I have had experience as and with other rape and abuse survivors. After starting to get a handle on my own shit, I volunteered at rape and abuse crisis hotline, and then acted as volunteer survivor's advocate in hospitals and courtrooms, and I helped find people safe shelters for many years. I have a background in psychology though I ultimately chose a different career. That's one reason I am so insistent on not ignoring the choices and power of the person who experiences these things.
If we don't look at those times when we say "okay", and when we have conflicting wants and needs, we never see how to set boundaries and stand up for ourselves. We have choices, and what we do and say is important, even if it isn't always 'right'. That doesn't make abuse okay, but it gives us power to act we we see ouselves in a bad pattern (especially in the beginning, before a full "learned helplessness" effect can set in). Simplifying matters ultimately traps the survivor in victim role and takes the power of our choices away from us. No one deserves to be abused, but we do have the power to make choice and our choices matter. Making the choice to set boundaries and make better decisions matters. The abuser does not have all the power unless we let him or her have it.
In terms of the story, acknowledging the different choices Sun Hwa makes does not excuse Sunbae--it simply shows that Sun Hwa has inner conflicts and his own issues too.
PS. Unlike the incident when he said "okay" to penetration because he was horny despite the problems involved, clearly Sun Hwa did not agree to this sexual bullying. Additionally, he refused to say he loves Sunbae (which is good). His choices do have power though.
I read this manga as a baby fujoshi (last year; it was probably the first title I considered a favourite. Not quite a year later, yet, but this update reminds me why Aomoto Sari remains one of the queens of my fujoshi heart. This couple is so intense and in thrall to each other in a way that I think only BL manga could make thrilling and this erotic <3.
It also created a special place in my heart for Fujoshi Bitches. The team has excellent taste and excellent work ethic.
I'm just filled with fujoshi love this morning. Happy Happy to everyone ٩(๑❛ᴗ❛๑)۶.