Not really that surprising. I like how Yoonbum gets sympathy being raped by his uncle but Sangwoo being raped by his mom is HIM being disgusting lol he's trying to relive a very traumatizing period of his life as a coping mechanism. I mean he's a fucked up dude but it's the abuse from his childhood that made him that way. It's why Sangwoo hates women so much, because of his mother and all the fucked up shit she did to him.
Anyways, this new development is really interesting and makes Sangwoo a much more sympathetic character if not and more realistic psychopath. I kind of dig it.
I hate the damn sugar daddy, don't get me wrong he's good in bed but the dude's like 50 and acts like a child. "It's your fault I fell in love with you" like really bruh? I'm not going to lie I liked him with Kyunghee at first because I do like twisted relationships but now I'm really wanting Junsik's brand of crazy more. There's nothing nice about the sugar daddy, he's a selfish immature prick why are people even falling for his bull? omg
I find it a bit disturbing how people are saying Kyunghee should "reap what he sowed" concerning the sunbae and sugar daddy. Like I get that he's not a good person but does he really deserve this ptsd inducing shit? First of all he didn't do anything wrong to the sugar daddy, they had an agreement, he gets money and the sugar daddy gets some ass. It's not his fault the sugar daddy got too attached knowing Kyunghee never wanted more than money(and don't give me that 'he shouldn't make money that way' college is goddamn expensive and not everyone has financial aid, he was probably desperate). Kyunghee ended it like he should have and got blackmailed, he was the victim.
As for the sunbae, I can't believe y'all acting brand new like that dude wasn't crazy from the jump. There was literal foreshadowing when the sunbae took a picture of Kyunghee without his permission and came on it(Chapter 12). He was clearly obsessed from the beginning, it's understandably easy to forget since he's so nice/timid on the outside but that doesn't make him any less crazy. Yes Kyunghee was a dick for using him, yes Kyunghee deserves a punch in the face or perhaps to be abandoned by the sunbae but he does not deserve another rapist/stalker. I wouldn't wish rape or stalking on my worst enemy.
Kyunghee is not a squeaky clean morally superior MC like we're used to, he's also not the typical whiny, weak ass bottom we usually get. He's objectively an asshole but he is a damn refreshing and interesting MC. I feel like people don't know how to sympathize with complex characters like him because we're so used to cookie cutter characters that don't challenge how we view people. It's so black and white: 'he's a jerk so suddenly he can't be a victim.' Um, what? I believe people should get karma equal to what they've done, I think if someone broke Kyunghee's heart and used him he'd 100% deserve it. But rape and stalking is just too harsh a punishment even if he used the sunbae. I honestly think the author intended for us to sympathize with Kyunghee so I'm happy I'm not the only one that feels he doesn't deserve all this crazy shit. The victim blaming is real though lol
kudos to this post right here tbh. especially the last paragraph.
>Kyunghee is not a squeaky clean morally superior MC like we're used to, he's also not the typical whiny, weak ass bottom we usually get.
like you said, it's refreshing. he's not an "uke" he's average guy with a rough childhood and grew up finding he could use his body and wit to make life easier on himself and mother (who he promised to be a grown up and help take care of as a child still). oh and he happens to bottom in sex, like that's the after thought rather than the whole bases of his character. yaoi and bl are basically interchangeable, but this really doesn't feel so much like yaoi and instead more like bl.
I love that he's like a "man" still, albeit foolish, but I like that I'm not reading what feels like a woman just drawn as a man. it truly is refreshing, and I've found there are several korean webtoons for the bl genre that lean more towards men than yaoi typically does.
It's not like all readers need to feel so sorry for him and coddle him, but at the same time hoping he "gets his" is really over the top also. I'm curious to see where this character will go next. he's enjoyable.
You have a lot of good strong points here and I agree with most of them I just really don't like Kyunghee as a character though. Not saying I don't enjoy the story and I will gladly continue reading to see where it goes...but my feeling of pity for him when he was getting harassed about the older guy dissipated when he used the sunbae like that...idk I just don't think it was fair to involve him in all of this with the only reason being to use him in some way. It just irks me pretty bad because its not like the sunbae just snapped or something he was provoked with all of the phone calls and sly comments from the older guy, he truly wanted to protect kyunghee because he believed he was in danger which is indeed what kyunghee made him believe but now he's the bad guy for trying to save him when in reality he has no idea he's just being played...aaah idk it's just hard to have pity for kyunghee when he needlessly created this mess with the sunbae. I agree with what you said about the sunbae being a bit obsessed to begin with however something tells me he wouldnt be THIS obsessive had he never been toyed with. I'm with you about not wishing rape and stalking on Kyunghee, he really doesn't deserve that but I honestly can't say this crazy sunbae isn't his fault, he created another obsessive monster.
People can have opinions for themselves you know, like how you chose to sympathize with kyunghee i can also chose not to sympathize with him.
For me he is definitely not what i would call a victim, he just as guilty as the other two. He goes around using people for his own purpose, but people can be unpredictable and if he knows better he won't go making them a chess piece in his game. He just as fuck up as anyone in this comic.
tbh if the sunbae was crazy from the start I feel like anything could potential set him off, that how it is with unstable people. But yea I'm not saying people have to like him, in fact I think people are justified in hating him lol
He gets stalked and has been raped, that is a victim rather you like it or not it's a fact that he has been a victim of something. You literally just proved my point about people's black and white thinking, he's guilty of one thing so there's no way for him to be victimized? That's not how things work. The world in not that simple dude. Also did I say he wasn't fucked up? Where did I say people can't have opinions? Stop putting words in my mouth my dude. Would you say a girl can't be a victim of rape because she teased and used the guy that did it? That honestly sounds crazy to me.
"It's not like all readers need to feel so sorry for him and coddle him, but at the same time hoping he "gets his" is really over the top also. I'm curious to see where this character will go next. he's enjoyable."
This, fucking this.
I'm loving these last chapters, there's got to be a big change coming I can feel it. On one hand I don't want Sangwoo to get locked up because tbh Sangwoo x Yoonbum is super interesting and literally the plot of the story.
However a part of me wants justice cause at the end of the day Yoonbum x happiness is my otp and he's never going to truly be happy with Sangwoo, he's always going to be controlled and manipulated when he needs to leave and get help. A part of me would like to see a sequel of him healing after Sangwoo is brought to justice. Maybe even throw some Yoonbum x officer bae hurt/comfort in ;)
I love me some Sangwoo but Imma be happy for his downfall (if it happens lol) after the abuse he put Yoonbum through. But dude is cunning af so we will see.
I think I'm like the only person that sees both bum and Sangwoo as crminals who both need mental help AND to be locked up. Neither of them are innocent (one is shittier than the other, thats for sure). And my heart goes out to Bum for his childhood abuse but he murdered someone. Flat out killed her because of a flashback, like I think I'm the only person that can see that and realize he's not underserving of whatever punishment he receives.
:spoilers:
I'm getting some serious Hannibal-esque murder husbands vibes from Sangwoo and Yoonbum's relationship now and I must say it's fun to read. It's a beautifully fucked up combination of twisted infatuation and emotional manipulation with a side of gaslighting.
Wow. Murder boyfriends it is then. I do hope Mr.Police catches Sangwoo eventually but for now a morbid part of me wants to know how far homeboy's gonna go. Somebody needs to pray for Yoonbum
Agree with the murder husbands lol, but I kind of hope they don't get caught though ╮(￣▽￣)╭
XD I see them personally as murder boyfriends cause they're younger and less refined but yes! I understand why you don't want them caught but I just want Sangwoo to suffer :) even if I do think he's interesting
also you're from Kazakhstan omg <3
I'm glad we have a chapter to remind us that yes, Yoonbum is not innocent but in fact pretty unstable himself. I actually like the route this manhwa is going now I feel much less guilty about shipping Sangwoo/Yoonbum it's a little less of a predator/victim relationship and more of a murder husbands thing (I miss Hannibal man) it's pretty interesting.
Kinda weirded out by the fandom tho like jeez some of ya'll seem a bit misogynistic to me. Even when Jieun wasn't being an insufferable dick ya'll attacked her. I'm not going get on anyone for being happy about her dying ( mainly people saying she deserves it. I would rather not defend murder even if it's on a fictional manhwa, I've got some morals at least)
But then I saw like a post about not wanting to see a naked woman (like we've seen plenty of naked chicks before but I guess that was ok because they were chopped up?) naked bodies are just nice to look at in general imo. idk I've never seen a fandom at like that before, at the least it's very immature. But shit happens in popular fandoms lol
Funny thing how people call Jieun a bitch therefore needs to die like a.s.a.p
but defends sangwoo and bum's right to live to the hilt.
Bitch and woman is now a bigger crime than murderers.
And before anyone says we are smart enough to separate fiction from reality, I ask again: do you really? When push comes to shove, whose side are you on really? Are you sure you have never in your whole life criticize even to yourself how a woman looks, acts, or thinks?
Why is feminism still a polarizing topic? Why is Planned Parenthood still picketed? Why are women's marches still needed? Why are legislations calling women "hosts" and why are pro-choice a dirty word for a majority of the world?
Boo! Get out of here you war starting feminist! Boo! No one here is wanting to talk about feminism with you.
Pretty much all of this. I'm afraid to read past your comments, frankly lol. Think I'll stop here.
Out of all the comments I've seen under this manhwa, yours is definitely the smartest. And like the person above me said, I'm too scared to scroll down because I'll be hit by a wave a dumbasses who're trying to defend the murder of an innocent girl who merely had a crush on a guy. I don't support murder in any fashion (unless it's a REALLY bad person, like Sangwoo), so reading comments about how that girl would've died just because she was a little bit mean and judgemental makes me wanna move to Mars.
Oh, i agree that jieun didn't deserve to die, i'm just booing that anon because they weren't really wanting to talk about jieun, they were using her as a stepping stool to go all feminist on us. Read the entire comment, it starts off about jieun and then ends with nothing but "females this, females that".
get out of here with your platform on abortion.
I don't think this moment makes S/Y any less of a predator/victim relationship. Yoonbum committed this crime after undergoing extreme physical and mental torture for idk how long. This torture included being physically disabled and made an unwilling accessory to a gruesome torture and murder. To conclude that him buckling under the pressure of such extreme circumstances now makes the dynamic into more of a partnership on any level is a REAAL stretch, imo.
The high school scene highlights Yoonbum's early pattern of problematic behaviour--definitely. Perhaps, then, the miracle is that he held out for so long--a testament to how "innocent" he was and how much Sangwoo had to do to bring him to this point...which still might not have happened if she hadn't said that phrase which pushed him over (which doesn't make it her fault AT ALL, just that it happened to be his weak point).
Gosh, I wanted her to escape so bad. Ugh.
I'm a feminist, and I think the analysis of the comment is flawed because it assumes who don't like a female character must do it because she is female, and those who like messed up "bad" characters must do it because the characters are male. It is simplistic and involves unwarranted generalizations and related assumptions. It relies on a world view where everyone is defines based soly on gender, and does not allow that some people might not like a female because of her personality and not her sex.
It also assume readers like character based on whether we perceive them as "good" or "bad" according to some external standard, and therefore there must be a double standard if anyone likes a "bad" character and dislikes a presumably less bad character (according to the values of the speaker). Maybe it's a question of some people liking the main characters because the characters are interesting and not liking a bitchy character because she is annoying. It's not always about who is right or wrong--it is sometimes about what we think makes a good story.
I'm trying to decide if you meant to aim this reply at someone else or, if you did mean to send it to me, if it was a feminist joke.
I literally said nothing about females in the comment of mine you're replied too so i'm assuming you're making a feminist joke because i was booing that closet feminist earlier.
you've* to*
The anon made a valid point from a reasonable perspective. I agree with them, for the most part. A lot of readers here like to express some fairly questionable opinions and when critiqued use the "But it's Fiction!" excuse. Yet media (including fiction) is proven to express and influence opinions IRL--so it's not unreasonable to challenge persons to reflect on whether their harsh opinion on women in fiction is really that different from how they look at women IRL. Violence against women is a huge issue across the globe and is often dismissed precisely because persons in the real world think that the women deserve it.
If you're uninterested in engaging in this kind of discussion, that's fine. It's not necessary (or accurate) to insist that no one else is.
ugh... you honestly think that your opinion on what you read influences your take irl? I want plenty of manga characters to die and that doesn't mean i'm emotionally capable of killing someone, that point of view is so ridiculous it's not even worth "debating". You say the media is "proven to express and influence opinions IRL", where did you find your statistics? Are you admitting that if you personally were to read a manga and wanted a character to die that you'd be emotionally okay with killing someone IRL because you were okay with it in a book? learn to disassociate...
When you read manga with druggie MCs do you go out and do crack afterwards?
Lets also keep in mind that a lot of literature is meant to influence you opinion in a certain way, so just because you fall for the author's bait and hate a certain character to the point of wanting them dead doesn't mean that'd effect you irl and make you okay with hateful people dying.
your*
I will just agree with you the fact that Yoom Bum is not innocent. I thought there is something unmorale but no... In the beggining he had borderline personality disorder... I thought it was just a term just put for prank.. but hella no...
yeah, it is safe to say they are really destined to be together
??? That's not what I argued for at all nor did I get that from the anon's argument. The word "influence" means "to have an effect". That's a pretty general concept that can be manifested in innumerable ways with the least likely scenario being the one you described. Media is also a plural-- in other words it would not only be manga, or even fiction, by itself that would be able to produce any kind of influence. (I also didn't state that media would be the *only* influence either.)
But, more importantly, neither did the anon or I assert in any way that thinking that Jien deserved to die meant that these readers are obviously misogynistic killers. Anon was highlighting how a negative attitude towards the female victim in this manga and--let's be honest, to any less than perfect female character in fiction--may be connected to a more general negative attitude to women IRL which could manifest itself in a lot of different scenarios--and she listed them. Again, you may not agree! But it's not a fringe position. (I mean, this discussion happens in anime and manga a lot.)
There are a lot of studies that have been done on how media reflects and influence society. A lot of books too. Feel free to google, read, and see what you think. Studies may be behind paywalls so checking your local library might be the way to go.
Indeed (づ￣ ³￣)づ it's my personal belief that Bum is just as dangerous as Sangwoo, people just don't realize it because he's the quiet type of dangerous, the one that stalks you to your house and breaks in to roll on your bed without you knowing. Everybody's all "Sangwoo is crazy! Poor Bum." and i'm like "yes, he is, but so is Bum. Just in a different way. Sangwoo kills openly while as Bum quietly obsesses with people and ,as ch 19 shows, has the capacity to kill if he's hurt by being denied by his obsession." People seem to think that he would've just stalked for the rest of his life (as if that isn't a problem in itself), but i feel that that is a naive way of thinking as someone was bound to unknowingly be nice to bum, notice Bum's obsession for them and freak out, in the process hurting his feelings. How many denied obsessions do you think he'd be able to take before he went crazy and killed one of his obsessions for not letting him be near them?
Was your argument not that media has an effect on the way you think IRL? because: "media (including fiction) is proven to express and influence opinions IRL" made me think that that is what you meant... my bad if i misunderstood... as far as you saying "neither did the anon or i assert in any way that thinking that jien deserved to die meant that these readers are obviously misogynistic killer", when you said "their harsh opinion on women in fiction is really that different from how they look at women IRL." it sure seemed as though you were saying exactly that. You said "Media is also a plural-- in other words it would not only be manga, or even fiction, by itself that would be able to produce any kind of influence. (I also didn't state that media would be the *only* influence either.)", i brought up manga specifically because we're reading an commenting on a manga... i'm not saying that manga is the only source of media so i don't know what your point is... you saying: "There are a lot of studies that have been done on how media reflects and influence society. A lot of books too. Feel free to google, read, and see what you think. Studies may be behind paywalls so checking your local library might be the way to go." just makes me feel like you were just saying that there're statistics to further your standing in your argument, you were basically saying "nuh-uh, i'm right its proven!" without siting anything to base this baseless statement off of.
I agree that the comment you did not like had flaws, but I saw different flaws than the one you identified. The criticism that followed was aimed at the comment we both disagree with. I am just saying it did not represent feminism.
Oh HAI! i guess you're back in this conversation after so long, conspicuously after Maitafenien as decided to respond to me in ernest, welcome back. I honestly don't see how you couldn't see feminism in that persons comment, but i suppose we'll have to chalk it up to difference in view points.
has*
The amount and type of influence media has on real life is questionable--and there is always a "chicken and egg" issue. Stories can be powerful, but they do not determine the readers thought--rather the reader decides what to take away from them. For example, some people read Mark Twain's Adventures of Huckleberry Finn and think the use of the n word perpetuates racism. However, reading the book does not cause thinking, educated readers to start using the N word--rather most who really get what was being put down see it as a criticism of the racism being described. The racial slur may have been normal at the time the book was written, but the book did not normalize the racial slur, nor does liking the book make a reader racist. The reader may be influenced by the book, but each reader decides what message, if any, she or he will take from it.
Fiction is different than real life. Fictional elements are not always direct nor literal. Readers are not blank slates. Judging fiction as if it were real life is logically flawed and relies on false assumptions.
1. Yes, media can have affect persons opinions IRL. Your response to that was to ask if I read about crack users and then go and do it myself. That's called a straw man. So I went to pains to show how "influence" does not mean turning the audience into mindless zombies.
2. That's another straw man. To describe someone as having a harsh opinion on a group does not equate to describing them as murderers, AT ALL. Come on.
3. I didn't cite anything because I honestly didn't think it was worth the effort. I've tried my best to interpret your posts in good faith even tho your first comment in this thread was essentially telling another poster to shut up, and your responses to my comments are riddled with fallacies.
Governments across the globe monitor and even censor media to varying degrees because it is widely accepted that media influences the populace. That's why some of them even control their media (not just the news but music, books, film etc) in order to shape the minds of the population.
If you're interested in learning about the specifics how media interacts with other facets of our life to shape minds you can make the effort to learn or not. If you don't want to, cool, but I'm tooootally not gonna do the work for you by looking up giving you the primary sources, soooooorrry lol. Only obv, general examples from me.
(Btw, you don't have to correct your typos or mistakes in follow up comments to me. I get that we make mistakes on here at times, no judgement.)
I sometimes have to do things that take me away from the Internet, and I sometimes spend time in other fandoms. Sorry. :)
I was reacting to what I saw a characterization of feminism as one united way of thinking on all issues, though I agree the comment seemed like it had an axe to grind. I see why you think it was feminist. It may represent a type of feminism, or some feminist views--but not all feminist views (because there are many kinds). That's why I want people to know I am a feminist in general (because I believe in equality of the sexes), even though I feel very strongly that fiction and fantasies should not be judge by real life standards.
"The amount and type of influence media has on real life is questionable". - Sure, that's still being debated and yes it is complex and works in connection with other factors.
Stating that stories can be powerful is the same thing as saying they have influence --what else defines its power? But obviously it doesn't make us zombies and I never said it did. Again, I can only point to the definition of "influence" for clarity on what I mean.
The rest of your post must be a response to someone else except that I haven't read anyone in this thread who stated that fiction is the same as real life, that readers are blank slates, etc In fact, all the original anon did was ask persons to reflect and ask themselves some questions and maybe try and draw some connections--that's it!
These discussions would go a lot better if we grasped and understood the nuances being presented. It's like each of us are talking to a wall lol barely any actual communication happening. I feel sorry for the notifications of the thread starter. I'll try to keep quiet from here on out (⌒▽⌒).
Hang on am I no longer allowed to express my opinions because it differs from yours? If this is your first reaction to my comment, then....
You could always just move along and let my comment die uncommented, too you know rather than chasing me out. But you choose to boo me and chase me out. Did I cur too close to your comfort?
"Influence" is so general as to to be meaningless--and that the power (or meaning) any story has is up to each reader to determine and is different for each person. Therefore "It's just fiction" (meaning that we should not treat make believe as if it were real) is always valid.
Oh, i just correct myself for my own pleasure.
Exactly.
Maybe I just never did phrase it as eloquently as you did.
When i first saw this girl and when subsequently I saw what was assigned to her, I knew that she's going to be painted a certain way and then be one of the victimes.
Much like in yaoi you are hard pressed to find female characters that are decent and don't bitch, or any female characters at all.
I am just asking why is that?
I honestly did not expect the reactions that I received.
These discussions would also go better if you said what you meant instead of a generalized statement that could be interpreted in any way. I know what you mean about talking to a brick wall though, i've literally pointed out the sections of your responses that can be taken as that you think that reading manga effects your frame of mind IRL, but you just keep talking about how i don't understand without addressing any of the instances that i mentioned, but whatever, i suppose you'll do whatever it takes to make it look like you meant something else since it's obviously a very obsolete way of thinking and you don't want people to think you have such ridiculous thoughts because you're a smart guy, right?
Oh no, i have no issues with you posting your thoughts, but this is a comment section meant to discuss the manga killing stalking, not feminism.
how is me stating that they went from talking about jieun to talking about feminist topics me saying that feminists all think in one way? I feel like you're diverging from the original topic in an effort to demonize me.
Oh my~ i don't think i prepared my anus enough for 3 people to take me on at once~
As Anoni Grrl said, I am not talking about feminism.
yeah, okay. ╮(￣▽￣)╭
"Much like in yaoi you are hard pressed to find female characters that are decent and don't bitch, or any female characters at all.
I am just asking why is that?"
Because yaoi is a type of erotica focusing on males in same-sex relationships (or activities). This "porn with a plot" is largely written by females for a mostly female audience. The point of yaoi is to portray fantasies of what some women find hot focusing on imagined male on male sexual activities and the passions some like to image develops from that. Female characters are irrelevant to this type of erotica, unless they somehow play a role in furthering the plot. Often in romance/erotica, the role of characters of any gender or sex who are not one of the main couple is to be a villain or obstacle that provides conflict or motivation for the main characters. The whole point of yaoi is to focus on two hot guys having sex in way many readers find stimulating.
Killing Stalking is much more like a thriller or horror story than a Yoai story. Jieun was given much more development than the gay man who was killed before her. This is probably so we could see the similarities to the girl in the flashback, but still--both of those female characters were given enough page time that many readers found things to like about them. Jieun's function was much like that of the old gay man's--to be killed based on similarities to people who caused Bum past trauma. That was the role of both in the plot.
The answer to that is: because drama/plot. But i fail to see how you saying: "Are you sure you have never in your whole life criticize even to yourself how a woman looks, acts, or thinks?
Why is feminism still a polarizing topic? Why is Planned Parenthood still picketed? Why are women's marches still needed? Why are legislations calling women "hosts" and why are pro-choice a dirty word for a majority of the world?" could be interpreted as anything but feminism, how does any of that sound like you asking "in yaoi you are hard pressed to find female characters that are decent and don't bitch, or any female characters at all. why is that?"? If i was wrong, then i apologize and that should be it, but it really seemed like you used jieun as a foothold to bring feminism into the mix and thats what you were wanting to talk about from the beginning.
I am not trying to demonize you. I mostly agree with you. I wanted to clarify that I am a feminist because sometimes on the Internet, "feminist" use used like a dirty word. It wasn't an attack on you.
Let me reword it as "As a feminist, I agree with your conclusions, but I have different reasons for doing so." Better?
You did the same thing that the anon that i was talking about in the first place did. You're still talking about random feminist topics despite this being a comment section for killing stalking.
oh, okay. I understand now, thank you for your contribution. (づ￣ ³￣)づ
No it's not. Anoni grrl gets it, I don't understand why you don't.
If you are looking for lovable female characters maybe you should pick a genre where the main focus isnt going to be malexmale relationships. Hmmmm.....maybe you should try reading yuri
As i said, if i was wrong then i apologize. Was there something else i could do for you?
But I am doing it because *you* characterized the comment as feminist, which made feminism relevant. If you had simple said she was talking about issues that had nothing to do with Killing Stalking, I would have agreed (though I may not have posted). It was you who started using the term feminism--which made it part of the discussion. The topic isn't random--it's one you introduced by using the term.
yes, because: "Are you sure you have never in your whole life criticize even to yourself how a woman looks, acts, or thinks?
Why is feminism still a polarizing topic? Why is Planned Parenthood still picketed? Why are women's marches still needed? Why are legislations calling women "hosts" and why are pro-choice a dirty word for a majority of the world?" seems clearly, to me, to be a feminist argument... does that not seem feminist to you? At the very least it has nothing to do with killing stalking, so there's no way they came on here intending to talk about jieun.
There are plently of good female characters in yaoi too.
I am just questioning (also) about why the extreme and adverse reactions of readers to female characters who did very much less crime than the hallowed MCs. In some cases they're benign but still called to "die bitch". I am fine with malex male relationships or I won't be in here. Some argue if it's just a turn of phrasing others argue if it is judt fiction, I am just asking if it is really. If it is, then move along. Right
Well I already told tou I am here to talk about Jieun. Maybe gramed in a larger more hyperbolic context than i should've. But I am giving an apple even though you keep insisting it is an orange.
What do you want from me? i've already said that if i'm wrong then i apologize, should i kiss your ass?
I agree with you here, i don't think that jieun deserved to die and i don't think it makes sense for people to post all those "die bitch!" comments. Jieun is just a normal insecure bitchy chick (not generalizing women, just saying that she is normal if put into this category), she just seems horrible because we get to hear her inner monologue. It's just a bunch of people falling for the mangaka's bait and hating her just like they intended.
That's one way to look at it, but maybe we should consider the larger fandom context too. I am going to use an example because I don't think Killing Stalking fans treat the characters much differently than other fandoms. If we are going to comment on fan behaviors (which I probably shouldn't, but this can of worms is now open), sometimes larger social trends matter.
I am also a fan of a show called Xena Warrior Princess. Back in the day, may fans disliked a male character male Joxer who was a buffoon who appeared for comic relief. Not all fans, mind you, but some very vocal ones. There were websites such as "die_joxer_die" and fans howling for his blood whenever he was on an episode. Xena, the heroine, is a former mass-murder "warlord" trying to seek redemption, and she still solved most problems by fighting. But she was the main character. Many of us shipped her with Gabi (the sidekick) despite the fact that Xena was domineering, a bit arrogant, and prone to violence. Both Xena and Gabi had flaws, but people who didn't like them probably didn't watch the show. Joxer was not a killer. He had good intentions. He was just annoying. The fans that found him funny defended him--but those that found him annoying hated him and created fanfic and fan art detailing his many deaths. The comments on Joxer were often crude.
Going back even further, there were some Star Trek fans who hated a young male character called Wesley Crusher. Really, the guy was just annoying and not evil. But some wanted him dead.
Fandoms often like characters for reasons that have nothing to do with how "good" or "bad" they are perceived to be. Some fans may dislike male characters they find annoying too. Often it's about which characters a group of fans enjoys watching or does not enjoy.
I thought I'd never see the end of this thread. This must be the longest thread I've read. I came here with no thoughts, then stumbled on this thread with THOUGHTS, but the more I read down the thread the more I lost my original thoughts, and all I thought about was how you (Anoni Grrl) and youraedthiswrogn sound like an old married couple having a tiff (CUTE! BTW. I ship you), Maltafenien is like a cool well-read older sibling, and Anonymous is like that affectionately annoying smaller sibling who means well.
PS: I am not a creepy person or a stalker, I swear!
LOL--at least you enjoyed yourself. :)
ahaha :^) i really enjoyed myself as well, thank you.
Lmao sassy af
SEASON 2!!! You know what's funny? I didn't know why I had this thread on bookmark. BUt it was entertaining as hell before, and still is. Lol I don't know why I'm so amused by this. Baeeeee!
tbh the yaoi fandom is pretty misogynist actually, yaoi in itself can be a genre with sexist tropes. I'm not saying that's the case all the time but when it becomes a pattern in a fandom it's a problem. Women are pretty demonized in yaoi so some fans are legit conditioned to hate women in yaoi simply as a knee jerk reaction. If someone expresses disgust for the female body because they don't want to see it in their "yaoiz" that's misogynistic af and pretty problematic imo lol
This is a really good point, I never thought of that. Now that I think of it my comment was a bit ableist and victim blaming :( fuck, thanks for pointing that out.
Yeah I would rather her escape too, I feel bad for her family/friends
I wish I can like this comment lol
I've said some dumb things too probs but thanks!
Does Akitsu identify as woman? I really want to find out because I don't think it can be considered yaoi is she's a transwoman(since it's a gay dude genre). Then again some gay men use female pronouns and I think it might be that idk it's so confusing! Anyways, I really love Akitsu she gives me dom vibes I hope she tops <3
I think Akitsu isnt actually trans but might crossdress for occupational reasons, as the editor in chief of a female fashion magazine.
Dang yall thumbs me down like i said the manga should burn in hell calm down transwomen deserve to be seen as women don't they? transwoman x man=not yaoi? I'm not arguing just trying to clear things up
yea i was thinking that but the female pronouns confused me a little XD
its probably that tho
Man this manga is honestly so interesting and well written so far but I just can't get over the art style. It's just so...boring? It's very polished, the artist clearly has a good sense of anatomy and draws beautiful sex scenes but the characters themselves are so lifeless to me. Where is the variety? They damn near suffer from same face syndrome and have barely any diversity in body sizes, simply changing hairstyles and skin/hair color doesn't always make the characters diverse. This bothers me even more because it's a manga about animal characteristics, animals are super eclectic and there's so much you can do with that theme??? There's so much distinctive features and body types you can explore but the mangaka kinda skips on that imo
I'm really disappointed because the bottom bunny dude specifically had me very curious. The dynamic between him and wolfy is probably going to be super intriguing but idk if I can get emotionally attached to a manga with such cold and stiff character designs.