Osaka's Topics (40)

Moritat is a virtual reality system where the person inside it has no memory of the world outside. The connection of the person inside (Jesse) to the outside world is the administrator (Law). Apparently Jesse and Law had already met before developing Moritat, and they had become friends (or more than friends) and finished the project together.

then law betrayed jesse and then made jesse suffer through all that because he hated jesse.........or so I think. IDK LOL
ლ(´ڡ`ლ)

Often in Yaoi, rape as seduction is a metaphor for sexual awakening in a culture that says sex is dirty or wrong (much like "Bodice Rippers" in the US in the 1970s), or it may give the character and reader permission to explore socially stigmatizing sexuality such as same sex relationships or BDSM. In order to accept it, you have to suspend disbelief in how rape actually works and believe it is an act of passion and lust.

I suppose one could argue group rape could also be giving permission (or an excuse) for group sex, but the way it was presented in chapter 8 seemed more like real life rape--an act of power and control where sex is used as a weapon. Once the characters are using rape as actual rape (as opposed to some metaphor or type of rough seduction role play), it is hard for me to suspend disbelief in the motives for and consequences of rape. When that happens, it is hard to think that within the story, the rapist does, in fact, love the survivor.

You pretty much lifted that first bit from someone else's comment on the Viewfinder page.

Yep. I was part of a similar discussion on Viewfinder (see my comments there too)--but that person was not the first to come up with the idea either. Those ideas didn't originate with me though--I think they have been around in academia for a long time (though maybe not directly in relation to yaoi). I am too lazy to look up academic sources and trace the origin.

But is the point I was making wrong?

Ok, here is a source I found for you--though it is where I first encountered the idea (I no longer remember original source) but since I don't want people to I am claiming credit for the theory just because I mentioned it, this is one book on the topic:Reading Rape by Sabine Selkie

https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=T_yTchyWpBkC&oi=fnd&pg=PR1&dq=rape+as+seduction+in+literature&ots=RjNJV64VYY&sig=tl5rgu1VdrB1r4pQuwc_1_UOsQc#v=onepage&q=rape%20as%20seduction%20in%20literature&f=false

And yes, if this were a paper I would have looked up and cited my sources.

Wait, hold on: Rape as seduction - do you realize how fundamentally wrong and absurd that is? Rape as sexual awakening? lol are you kidding me? You sure go on making your point, but for such smart words and tabs on literature you fail to realize how absurd it is to begin with.

You seem to enjoy a good discussion, so here you go. Yes, i don't doubt japanese society is judgmental about standards, which is no doubt why it's also a source of creativity which still keeps on amazing the world (for better or for worse). And yes, sex may be more of a taboo subject to bring on everyday convo compared to other societies.

Supposing this is, like you said, a culture that says sex is dirty or wrong, how on earth do you claim RAPE is a way to "explore socially stigmatizing sexuality such as same-sex relationships or BDSM"?

What? Don't you think the way to do that - to break the stigma - is actually a faithful, unprejudiced and positive portrayal?
Oh wait, I get it! So you're saying all rape in yaoi is actually just a metaphor shoutout aimed at society on how gay guys and other stigmatized groups are fucked by a prejudiced and sexually-oppressive society. Wow, deep, and from what I've seen it's a pretty huge movement. All those sexually repressed mangaka giving the middle finger, they must be really pissed off. Sorry, can you detect my sarcasm?
Unless ofc you mean it by the negative, as an hardship that makes part of the story associated with the stigma (but discrimination would make more sense, not rape).

But THEN you go "In order to accept it, you have to suspend disbelief in how rape actually works and believe it is an act of passion and lust."

Incredible how you just plunged into the pitfall. Do you hear yourself? You're telling your brain to shut down and forget it's rape - priceless. "Ok mind, this is not rape, it's in fact an act of passion and lust. He's resisting but he's blushing and moaning. See how they're enjoying themselves. It doesn't make sense. Can't be rape. Nope."

Finally, we tackle on the worst part of yaoi: romanticizing abuse and rape, turning it into a convoluted mess of contradictory signals and love/sex misconceptions that confuses and manipulates readers into thinking it's okay. Here's the trick: mix contradictory signals, make the victim look like he may be enjoying it and the rape turns into...idk, I think people like the term non-consensual sex, or even better: dubious consent.
This shutting down and forget it's rape, you're doing it because it doesn't make sense to you. You do the exact same thing you would do with a rape fantasy - but in porn you know very well it's all played and exaggerated for only one reason, so you never actually go thinking rape is ok. If yaoi is merely porn for you, then I think you're safe.

Rape isn't sex, it's an act of violence. There's no "pseudo-rape" or "actual rape", only rape - if there's no consent, it's rape. If you knew what a metaphor is properly, you would know it's about qualifying an idea with the qualities of another and it works because there's compatibility. Rape can be a metaphor for many things, but NEVER good things, and certainly not something as less brutal as "seduction" or "sexual awakening". The idea you're defending and selling is the same "romanticized rape" that spawns rape romances all over yaoi like the plague, which only downplays the significance of rape and spreads love/sex misconceptions, so cut the crap.


tldr: rape is rape. your logic is flawed. I hope you see why.