I know there are some people knowledgeable about this topic, but is it actually possible that a kid like Shirotani would understand the concept of sex, and would be aroused by it at such an age? Can a child really have such sexual desire for a father instead of familial desire? Can a child who may not understand the taboo of incest, really feel guilty about it?
you took the words outta ma mouth..
All excellent questions. Sexual arousal can begin long before puberty, sometimes as early as 6-8 years old. This does not mean a six year old understands what is happening, nor how to engage in sex or masturbation. Sexual arousal is produced by the body releasing adrenaline, endorphines, dopamine and testosterone. These cause an increase in heart rate and blood pressure, leading to an erection. The feeling of "arousal" - not just the erection - is also due to the release of these. They can be released for any number of reasons - fear, excitement, sexual excitement, etc. - and at any age.
Shirotani is approximately 8-10 years old here. A child that age is aware of gender differences and they can be aware of feelings of "attraction" without understanding the sexual nature of that attraction. If a child is exposed to the concepts of sex, they may then equate that "attraction" they feel, to it's sexual nature. In other words, Shirotani felt an "attraction" to his father. This "attraction" held no sexual connotation for Shirotani until he saw his father engaged in sex. At that moment, the "attraction" then takes on it's sexual nature.
Children as young as 6 can sense differences about themselves in comparison to others - I'm a boy, she's a girl, I like playing with girls more than boys, I like playing with trucks more than dolls, etc. By age 8-10 (Shirotani's age) concepts like, "boys play with trucks and girls play with dolls"; "seeing a naked body is embarrassing/shameful"; "wanting to see or touch your naked sibling/parent is weird/wrong"; "touching yourself while thinking of your sibling/parent is weird/wrong", have all been picked up through interactions with their peers and elders (teachers, parents, relatives, etc.). So, yes, Shirotani is old enough to know how he feels for his father is considered wrong, even if he doesn't understand the specific concept of incest.
Sorry for writing a novel. Your questions were really excellent and show, not only your intellect, but also your desire to know the real facts. I hope that I've helped, even a little.
Oh wow...it's you again =))) It's nice to know people like you are lurking at this site. I think you clarified everything.
It at least makes sense now. The biggest influence on his guilt and shame came from his interaction with that highschool girl who told him his actions were disgusting. At that pivotal moment where he first felt sexual arousal for his father and he, to some extent, didn't understand what was happening to him, the girl just told him that he was disgusting.
You got it. Children at this age can be made or broken by their experiences, and it happens in the blink of an eye. One word turned Shirotani into the man he became at 30. Undoing 20+ years of self-inflicted torture is no easy task. That is why the seme (can't remember his name), no matter what he does, is my hero. There is no doubt that he is getting his own satisfaction from his actions, but his goal is to show Shirotani that sexual desire is normal and nothing to be freaked out about. That is also why he keeps such a cool demeanor when Shirotani flips out. If the seme got upset too, the idea that sex and sexual desire is stressful and bad would be reinforced.
This is one of my favorite manga, because there are so many deeper meanings to every chapter. Not to mention, it's really HOT!
I really enjoyed seeing your questions in your original comment. Not many people take the time to get more information before forming their opinions. I specifically tried to leave out any reference to the girl who called Shirotani disgusting, in my comments, so as not to influence your opinion with my own.
Someone tell me why, even though I've read so much other sadistic manga with rape and violence (and enjoyed it), I can't stomach this. I just feel so bad for Azusa and Atsumu. Why is that even though Karino's totally my type I just think he's a sociopath I wanna punch in the face. For you people who say that the people who couldn't take chapter 8 are those who aren't used to twisted, dark and violent manga, especially those from Ogawa, I beg to differ.
Teehee. Credits to the mangaka, maybe?
Definitely （￣へ￣）
I feel the same way. This is so much more unbalanced than most dark stories. Also the ukes are fleshed out as characters and we feel for them. They aren't just bodies in a mob--most of us are rooting for them.
we feel for azusa because we saw his true self,he is broken,completely broken,and doesn't need karino to destroy him even more. He is wearing a mask. We saw his mother,how she was treated by other men,and for me it's difficult to think of azusa as karino's bi*** cuz that's what his mother is and that's what he hated the most,but now,he's like his mother. He doesn't want to study(remember kusakabe advice,and his mother's) because he knows there is no future for people like him,he wanted to exploit other people before being exploited by them,it was the only possibility for him. On the other hand,we have Karino,the son of a minister,and the one who is having fun while playing the game. He is the king inside the school but also outside,and he wants to break azusa simply for fun. That's why is difficult to like it,we don't have that atmosphere of love,we feel the abuse,because we know what Karino doesn't,the fact that azusa is broken and doesn't need to be broken by someone else. And that's why I love this manga so much,you can feel the pain,especially the pain of azusa. Anyway,I enjoy twisted,dark mangas too '◡')ﾉ
Well said Kiss. It's always good to read thoughts of another Azusa fan.
thank you ((:
I was so distraught by this manga I had never actually noticed these few details. But I totally agree with you with every word. You're right...there has no atmosphere of love. For most yaoi manga, rape is used as a violent and impulsive expression of obsession or love, or used as a means of corrupting or defiling the other. But no, Azusa was already broken the moment Karino tried to destroy him completely. I think it's unsavory. It pains me to see Karino take away every shred of Azusa's dignity.
But thanks for this. I'll keep this in mind while reading the next few updates.
Who do you think is the seme and the uke? I've been trying to guess throughout the manga...and my answers kept changing. At first I thought Natsuki should be the seme but learning how sensitive he actually is...the other guy kind of feels more seme-ish. But that Jenga thing was awesome lol.
i've never thought that natsuki could be the seme chika is much more seme like
this is one of the couples that can be reversible, i think
...Does that really matter ?
It does not.
I doesn't. But it's at least fun to guess.
I'm pretty sure our delinquent Natsuki is Uke.
I even put this in my Queen-Uke list. Heh~ (｡^‿^｡)v
haha yess, we have the same thought :D
Yeh! Let's clap hand! (^‿^)/
I don't get why the Rape tag is here. I thought the sex was more on dubious consent than actual forced coercion.
http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/yuuutsu_na_asa/mf/v01/c004/28/
It was kinda obvious that Katsuragi wasn't ok with it. He did put some resistance, it left bruises. Akihito did force him even with Katsuragi physical resistance. Even if at first he was like "i don't care", kept his mouth shut and later lost his will to fight. It was clear that there was resistance(physical), it was rape.
Oh you're right. I read this months ago so I only remembered the general story. Oh gosh...now that I've revisted this chapter...all the feelings are surging back into me. It's a really sad chapter.
Can I just say...if Kusakabe won't end up with Azusa or even play an actual role that will challenge/change /or do anything really about Azusa and Karino's dominion relationship, why the hell did that author introduce him in the first place? If it's just a manga about Azusa realizing and embracing how utterly powerless, useless and depressing his existence is, staying as a slave beneath the soles of Karino, then really...is there any substance that actually lies on this manga? And if it's just a manga wherein Azusa realizes he's just not this useless piece of shit because it turns out there was someone like Karino who really treasured him, then I greatly overestimated the ability of Ogawa Chise.
Let me just say.... don't you fucking dare judge a mangaka from a manga that ISN'T COMPLETED. This manga is NOT COMPLETED and IS NO WHERE NEAR BEING COMPLRTED. If you're so fucking butthurt now, then get your ass off this manga. I didn't want to sound rude but you seriously pushed all my buttons. "No substance." So, when someone thinks a manga is really crappy just 'cause the characters don't end up together, then it's automatically called having no "substance?" If you read her other works, but by the looks of it, you obviously haven't, then you would know all her beginnings are fucked up. The endings are great though and everything ties in together. Caste heaven is still progressing and if you haven't read the raws that aren't out yet, then shut your fucking mind and stop typing.
I'm sorry, you clearly do want to sound rude. If you want to get your opinions across, no matter how strong they may be, do it the right way, with some respect for how others may react to your tone. No one has a need for that sort of attitude on this website.
Dear, you obviously do not understand how hard sensei works. Kindly keep your disrespectful and non-thoughtful opinions to yourself.
*inconsiderate
this is definitely and inevitably correct. I feel that it is like that,too.
Hi in response to this reply: 1) I have read all Ogawa Chise's work and I don't mind that her stories are all fucked up and have no happy ending. 2) I never meant to say that it had no substance BECAUSE Karino and Kukasabe won't end up together. 3) I had NO conclusions about this manga. All my sentences either ended with a question mark or began with an 'IF' because I acknowledged that it was an incomplete manga.
===
Think about it though...Karino put Asuza in this dominion relationship...in this kind of realm where the power structure is that he's on the bottom and Karino is on top. From the beginning, the whole theme of the manga is power. Azusa had a taste of power and powerlessness. NOW...what he needs to taste is that that power is meaningless...and the only way he can do that is escaping the realm Karino put him in. No matter how much their relationship take form...like genuinely loving each other...he'll still be stuck in that realm.
I can't find the complete drama CDs anywhere (all the old links are broken).
Does anybody here have it? Or know where I can find it? The drama cd in youtube isn't complete.
Okay, after hours of searching...I found the complete drama CDs. If anyone wants it, you can PM me.
Tomoko-chan, onegai *puppy eyes* ( ° Д ° )
They are on Aarinfantasy. You have to create an account, but it's worth it, they have tons of drama CDs, manga, live action bl etc.
*Hold you by the collar*
YOU ARE A BLESSING FROM THE YAOI GODS!! (๑•ㅂ•)و✧
THANK YOU!! (づ￣ ³￣)づ