You said it! I agree, people go for the "Is just fiction" "Just don't read it" and others..."arguments" to justify all the abuse, but is like a coliseum where people liked to see gore for entertainment. Is not okay, even if it is for entertainment.
I have had serious triggers with other stories, panic attacks, and is no joke, or because I'm "too sensitive". And is not a sh*t that goes aways if you stop. Oh, no. That thing goes to the point of rashes, gastritis, and other things.
Those who just say those phrases, seriously don't know how that work, is not that simple, is not that easy.
The sad thing is like you say, the people who applaud the abusers, the people who justify them, the people who encourage it. Because those people are real, and is very stressful.
For other hand, this story for me is fairy decent in comparison with others, at this last chapter they talk a little about this issue (That for me was a relief, because I haven't seen this in others comics) but it does not justify, and this are the scraps you can have when everything else is abuse and rape. Is sad.
Sorry I wanted to say "Barely decent" I struggle with my English haha
That's fair, I think that people should be allowed to find it entertaining though, it's fiction and the problem is crossing the line from entertaining to "idolising/thinking it's anywhere near okay".
The only problem I had is that they didn't put trigger warnings which is imperative to let people know if they have any triggers.
Also, to an extent, if you've been warned and you can't handle it, you shouldn't read it. That's what trigger warnings are for. Content shouldn't be censored, but you should let people know of things that might be important to know like triggers.
I completely agree with you!! Although it is fiction it can still trigger some people! It’s happened to me quite a few times while reading mangas ╮(￣▽￣)╭
we dont need your opinion. i see you reading YAOI
Lol, I mean, yeah obviously because I can still find it interesting and consider it bad? like murder mystery novels because people are dead and fight scenes and revolution scenes. People can romanticise those as much as you like, but they're still terrible things in real life. My point was that either way. you should still have a certain level of discretion and understanding of other people's triggers.
Anyway, the reason was because I personally don't like rape scenes because they make me feel uncomfortable and I've had a few bad experiences, but I still find shonen ai cute and yaoi cute sometimes, since two men being together has nothing to do with my discomfort although most of it is literally just anime porn.
Anyway, my taste is irrelevant, I read far more action manga/slice of life manga than I do BL although I used to read a lot of BL on here purely because I thought that was the only thing this site had that was interesting and that shouldn't take away from my statement??
Speak for yourself. At least HowDoesOneNot articulated an opinion in detail whereas you seem to have a hard time putting together enough words in sequence to present a sensible counter-argument.
Now, my problem here is that there seems to be no rape warnings/rape trigger warnings. Nowadays, people put that stuff in manga (usually BL) to warm people of something like that or they put the tag 'Bullying/abusive lover' to let people know generally what they're in for. That's not here. And it may not seem like much, but for people who have been sexually assaulted, that's really important because a lot of things can trigger them into a panic attack.
A lot of the discourse seems to be that people don't think this is an unhealthy relationship. It is. It most certainly is. Havi has no patience when in a relationship, it's supposed to be equal and she pushes Yul to answer her question as to why his chastity was so important, but that's HIS reason. She claims that she has a right to know about it, but she really doesn't. Them dating has nothing to do with his trust in her and he repeatedly tells her that he doesn't trust her. For good reason, and he really shouldn't.
Also, she doesn't care enough to prod when Yul was kicked out of his house (I've only read up to chapter 13. That was it for me.)
Her entire thing is 'Oh, I'm sexually active and impulsive etc.' but that's not a personality I would enjoy in both women or men, fiction or real. That's just immaturity and so their relationship isn't going to last (hopefully) and neither should it last at all. Their entire relationship feels more like affectionate sex acquaintances- people who don't know each other at all and have vaguely sexual relations. The difference is that Havi doesn't ask for consent from Yul and in a relationship where you don't know each other that well, active consent (which means 'no' until they say 'yes) is important and passive consent (which is implicit consent where it means yes until the word 'no') is more acceptable.
As well as that, their relationship does have a very 'ex-' feeling to it, as if this is the prologue and set up and Havi will meet someone new after growing into a better person through this relationship as will Yul afterwards.
My point is, is that it doesn't feel like it was written to last. Their relationship isn't healthy in the best of ways but that's because the characters are flawed. This feels like them learning how to be in a relationship then leaving to find someone else. (specifically Havi because lets be honest, Yul already has the concepts of a relationship down. Havi's the one who's sexually assaulting her partner and blurring the lines).
Anyway, this isn't a healthy relationship, it's actively abusive and what she's doing to Yul is sexual harassment.
Yes. Men can get sexually harassed and be the victim of an abusive relationship too. In fact, one of his lines are: "I didn't want to hurt you in case that wasn't going to legally be considered self-defence" (I'm paraphrasing) and that is something that men in actual abusive relationships say. "I didn't want to hit her because she loved me.", "I didn't want to hit her in case I abused her", "I didn't want to hit her because it wouldn't be counted as self-defence even though she was sexually assaulting me or hitting me".
That's why men don't "just push them off".
Because it can be considered assault.
Some people will disagree and at this point, I don't care. To an extent, this isn't about "just fiction" because I'm not dealing with fiction characters. I'm dealing with real people who think this relationship is okay.
And as always, there will be those who go: "But I'm not thinking this relationship is good, I just find their dynamic interesting!"
And you know what? I don't care! That has nothing to do with what I'm saying, you just feel defensive of something that wasn't even directed to you and if you really did "just think it was interesting", then you should still be able to say that it is a bad relationship, it was just fascinating, like how people can look at violence and not be able to take their eyes away.
If you think it was okay, please, tell me why. I would genuinely like to know why you think her continuously assaulting her partner and not asking for consent is okay.
I don't care for the cute moments between them, abusive relationships also have that. It's why people go back to their abusive partners. Because they crave the honeymoon phase where everything was good. That doesn't mean that it was okay.
(I'm just trying to bat down every argument before they're spoken so I have to do less work later on.)