as a novel reader, i see patrizia as depicted to be quite sympathetic but rational. although she still sees lucio as the man who sent her family to the guillotine (though that's questionable) she also empathizes with him. that doesn't mean she's giving in to emotions though. this breakdown scene is merely her being humane - someone capable of feeling pain for others. imagine hating someone for their sins then suddenly bombarded with his issues. plus, she didn't personally know lucio of the past (in fact, nobody but rose did) so she could only hate him for what he did not why he did it or what type of person he truly was. but now, she's a small step closer to understanding him as an ordinary person struggling through life.
you don't have to be close to someone to be able to cry for their misfortune. we're all humans and we're all fighting our own demons. patrizia simply did not expect lucio to have such the amount of demons haunting him
True this
Of course I agree that you don’t have to be close to a person to feel compassion and cry for what tragedies befall them. But I personally wouldn’t be so overcome with grief for a person who ruined my life and the lives of my family, that I would start sobbing for them. Where was the compassion on his part? Character transformations because of another persons influence are always a little shallow to me. It takes away self agency and responsibility the person carries. I can’t take him changing into a completely different person just because of Patrizia’s singlehandedly influence seriously. In the same vein, I also can’t take him changing into such a prick in the first timeline just because of his mistress’ influence, seriously either. A person has certain characteristics, flaws and strength. What and who we are exposed to influences us of course. But not so completely from villainous scum to tragic “hero” because of one single person (I guess unless you are raised in a cage and your abuser having complete power over you during your formative years). The mistress only played with what she saw in Lucio after his abusive childhood. He hardened himself to other people. But the things he did in the first time line, I can’t believe it was just because of his mistress. This might be an exaggerated example, but with Serial killers or child molesters for example, I feel compassion for the children they were and what happened to them, but I don’t have any compassion or start to cry for the adults they’ve become if they would tell me about what happened in their past. I can’t for the life of me, just ignore what they’ve done, regardless of the abuse they suffered as children. Anyways, with Patrizia, he’s responsible for her and her family’s misery. There is personal history here. So I’m not put out by her feeling compassion for what happened to him. I just think her sobbing on the ground for him is an exaggeration by the author to move the relationship along too quickly. Especially with him never giving anything back. Lol. Sorry for my ramble. Merry Christmas
MERRY CHRISTMASS ლ(´ڡ`ლ)
Great perspective! Really liked your take on it. I see it a bit differently, more along the lines of others who responded but the thread you started was awesome. Thanks for sharing, so nice to see engaging discussions!
Lol. Thank you. This just gets me fired up when a rather villainous person gets the “I suffered as a child so I’m an asshole to you who tries to ruin you but please forgive me” treatment. Especially when a character who suffered personally from this person’s actions forgives and forgets and is so overcome with compassion they cry for what they went through and forget what this person is capable of. Forgets that this person is responsible for you and your family’s suffering. I also don’t like when a person like that has taken their responsibility taken away with the explanation that it’s just because someone else manipulated them. It doesn’t make a character look good but weak willed and foolish. In the new time line, he didn’t commit atrocities against her family yet, but the steps to her ruin have already been taken by him and he’s the same person who’s still capable of doing so. I heard...spoiler...
That Patrizia was chosen in particular because she’s barren and would give ample ammunition to Lucio to force an annulment to make his mistress the empress. Another poster made me aware that Lucio didn’t know about this which just makes this a plot weakness. First, how would anyone know Patrizia is barren and second, why wouldn’t he be informed about it? If an official court doctor checked for fertility, then why wasn’t the emperor informed of something that would lead to dynastic complications but his, at the time, untitled mistress was? That doesn’t make sense. Especially with Patrizia not really putting much effort into the competition. Third, while Lucio was rolling around with his mistress in bed in chapter 2, I think, he promised to make her his Queen (the term Queen and Empress are used interchangeably for Patrizia as well, so I think he wasn’t talking about making his mistress a second Queen but the only one), so there was a plan from the beginning to get rid of the chosen bride. And fourth, he changed the last challenge to that of physical health, so he knew that she was barren from the get go. It just makes much more sense that he knew and chose Patrizia so he could get rid of her easier. She’s not the best candidate and barren? Sounds like all the things Lucio could wish for to further his plans. I also heard that his mistress later gets the maitresse en-titre title (official mistress). After everything we see here he still continues on with his mistress, that’s why I don’t see Patrizia warming up to him. Especially so shortly after the trial. The empress accused the mistress of treason, false evidence was procured and got the mistress off the hook. That couldn’t be helped by the emperor. But Patrizia is also witnessing him still hanging around with her and her still having the same freedom and privileges as before. That would tell me a lot and I would harden myself against the emperor even further. I also learned that he later doesn’t sleep with her anymore, but honestly how does that matter if she still gets all that leeway to act out? He’s just so weak willed and half assed about everything. Those two women are running circles around this guy. Mistress continues on with her assassin and undermining attempts against the empress. Patrizia is trying to get a foothold against her. And Lucio is just standing by, crying over his past and leaves both women to fight it out. The thing that bugs me is that none of this would happen if he would take a stance of any kind here. Mistress is acting out because Lucio allows it and let her know previously that he wants to put her on the empress throne. We see many scenes where it’s made clear that he loves this woman, so I don’t see how people can think that it’s all the mistress doing that led to Patrizia’s and her family’s ruin. A mistress doesn’t have that power unless her powerful lover grants her that power. Patrizia crying so whole heartedly for a man like that, it comes off as a writing ploy. He sees how compassionate she is and softens towards her. He immediately compares her to how his mistress acted when he told her the same story. And this I guess this is the start where he sees them in a different light. But not because he’s intelligent and watched both their behaviors on the sideline and came to certain conclusions, but only because Patrizia was sobbing on her knees for him. So him being portrayed as such a victim, who has no self agency, while he is the cause for everything with his mistress being just a symptom, I just can’t buy Patrizia sobbing around like that. Lol. I’m so sorry for my long ramble. And I also love discussing things like this (づ￣ ³￣)づ
It doesn’t make too much sense to me. If someone who did you and your family great harm, and you burn with a fiery hatred for that person (like Patrizia), you won’t break down crying when you come to know your enemy was abused as a child. Especially not a levelheaded and on retribution focused person like Patrizia. Of course anyone would feel pity for the child he was but not the grown man he is. Especially considering all the shenanigans he and his mistress were/are up to. I get the author wants to move their relationship along but I’m sorry. Patrizia is like”I want to go to bed and couldn’t give less of a frick if he is a crying mess” two or so chapters ago, to now suddenly breaking down and sobbing at his feet for him. Especially considering what happened during the trial. Of course the false evidence let the mistress off the hook, but the only thing she lost is her baroness title. He didn’t reprimand her at all. Didn’t break it off or distanced himself from his mistress. Which of course would lead Patrizia to believe that he doesn’t believe her. Or worse, if he does, he doesn’t care that his mistress almost killed Patrizia. Why would Patrizia sob for a man so desperately who doesn’t take even one step in her direction or cares even an ounce for her physical well-being? He doesn’t want to know or understand her. They only ever have “personal” conversations about his concerns. He never asks after Patrizia, doesn’t ask questions to get to know her better. To make a negative relationship turn into something more amicable, both people need to take steps. He just doesn’t. It’s always Patrizia who does something for him (saving the banquet, saving his life, taking over the emperor’s duties successfully, staying while he has a nervous breakdown, now sobbing for what happened to him as a kid) what has he done for her that comes just a little close to that? Nothing! He just disappoints her over and over again by his inaction and blasé attitude about everything (unless it’s about him, then the waterworks start) . So I don’t understand why she’s crying for him like they have a much closer relationship. (〜￣△￣)〜