Cruel to be kind

Well some might be, but not a whole school. Although... anyway. It simply doesn't make much sense. I could, COULD, understand Karinos actions and yes bullying Azusa to a certain level but protecting him in the last moment was something I already saw after he stopped those guys of seriously raping Azusa, but why did he force him onto Kusakabe!?!? In which way was that protecting him? The story is dead to me after that happend, since both couples took part in it. Surprisingly enough Azusa seems to be the most sane guy of them all, but they are all just nuts.

karino is a sadist and azusa seems a maso,even though he doesn't admit it. To me it seems like they enjoy that kind of sex,the problems is that azusa was like nothing had happened...and that is weird. But maybe,like I said he simply doesn't want to be hurt emotionally. The only time he nearly gave up was when karino said he was only a toy to him,and the school was a game. I don't know what they are saying but in chapt9 when karino and azusa met,there was a weird but sweet feeling at the same time,it was as if karino said sorry. I don't know,but these 2 simply get each other. I feel sad for azusa though,when someone treats you like that and you simply shut up...well maybe he thinks that's the way he should be treated and doesn't deserve better(like he said the bottom should be exploited by the top,in the end outside the school he has always been the bottom). I don't know,in this chap Karino seems like he knows what he did was over the top. I want chap10 and plz let it be about azusa and karino,if there is a new couple in chap10 ç.ç,I can't even imagine that...

I will be sad if there is a third couple--especially since the most likely pair seem like both followers and jerks (so the worst of both so far). I can buy the SM rationale more than I can swallow the "bully him to keep him safe" line. At least S&M makes sense.

In the extra Karino even stated : Whoever gets in the way will be crush by him.
Now he is like 'I am saving Azusa'??
Didn't Karino make Azusa as Joker so he can bully Azusa himself & he wanted to see Azusa twisted in pain? Why now he afraid to get overthrown just because he didn't let the classmates bully Azusa enough? So he used the 'bully it himself' excuse? Isn't Azusa known as 'Karino's woman' that's why the class didn't dare to bully Azusa??

actually it makes sense. If you think about the system not only inside the school but also outside,Karino cannot break the social rules. It's like the real world,it's about a system,a social system tha cannot be broken. The only king is the system. Karino cannot be with azusa in the real life,for some reason:1. different social status 2.they are gay, in chap4 azusa wanted to use this fact,and they both can do nothing against it,that's why azusa was sad after going to karino's house,the "top" and the "bottom" cannot be together in the real life,the system doesn't allow it(social rules and people won't allow it). Doesn't matter who you are, Karino is the son of a minister yet he said that that video could ruin him. In the school it's the same thing,he can be powerful but is the system that made him powerful,he cannot go against it,he can simply play with it. Karino wants to have azusa only for himself, he is a player,but in its own way he loves azusa.

Yeah, but Karino still didn't need to make Azusa the target. Karino just wanted to. He could have pursued Azusa on the down low, but he wanted to be cruel at first, and to have all the power and control. Granted, Azusa would have taken a confession as a weakness and tried to use Karino, but Karino didn't have to go that far. The truth is Karino wanted to--because Karino is a bit S.

I'm fine with Karino being mixed up and dominant and an S, but don't tell me he did it all for Azusa. Not buying it.

Yup. I can't understand if it said Karino did it for Azusa. And Karino doesn't need yo make simulation of real world top-bellow to school. If he can be king and want to be with Azusa because he can't in real world he didn't necessarily to make him target.
I think made Azusa as target indeed forced Azusa to be submissive to King. But as king he can even ask Jack to perform sex so why made Azusa target? The only reason that come up in my mind is yes because Karino is Sadistic, He wants to be dominant, and controlling Azusa. And giving Azusa rank upper than target will grant Azusa small power to resist that's why karino need to make azusa powerless.
I still confused. Is karino try to make simulation of real world with caste system because he wants to apply it in real world if he finds a way with Azusa? Like practice simulation.

So basically we can assume that Karino want to be with Azusa without throw away his power. After your hypothesis can we say karino made the caste as simulation of his own life as different status? I still can't quite grasp the whole thing.
I really really need next chapter to be dedicated for Azusa or Karino. I only love azusa, miss him so bad. Don't another couple please

My hypothesis (which may be a stretch) is that the adults either set up or allow the caste game so that rich kids could learn practice politics at school. They are supposed to be learning the power dynamics and sex is just one possible side bonus. Think of it as the opposite of Azusa'a idealistic grade school teach who wanted everyone to hold hands. Azusa wanted to run his fastest and didn't care about the slow people. The "we are all in this together" approach didn't let Azusa do his best, and was unfair in that way--but the caste system only let Azusa do his best when he was king. We saw preps were not allowed to outshine the king in basketball, and targets don't play sports, so Azusa never even goes near the track. In addition, his grades suffer when he is a target, so all his mother's dreams for him are dying.

I do not think Karino intended all this. I don't think Karino thought about it. I don't think Karino has thought ahead to possible real life applications of keeping Azusa (at least, not yet). I think the game was a handy tool for both Karino and Kuze to get what they wanted (or who they wanted).

I was talking about what the caste meant,the meanining of this manga. Karino wasn't even interested in the school caste,simply because he considered it a game compared to the real one,also he is a sadist and a player. Karino made azusa the target first because of his own entertainment,second because that was the only way to have him. If Karino was the king and azusa not the target,karino couldn't do what he did to him. If someone else was the king and azusa wasn't the target well...like I said karino couldn't have him. But the problem is that azusa and karino are both players. Azusa wants to be the KING,remember when Kusakabe found the joker,he didn't take it. He wants everything or well,nothing. After this caste they both can have different cards, being followers that would be better. Karino wants to "own" azusa,and considering azusa's obsession with being the king,the only option was the king-target relationship. So yeah,that caste game is a mini real world. But who knows,azusa seems to have many haters,if someone else was the king,like that guy with glasses,doesn't matter if he wasn't the target they could have bullied him. I don't know but I see it as a twisted relationship. And yes,chapter 10 must be about azusa!! The real torture here is the fact that we've been waiting for 8+ months to see more about karinoxazusa and they give us bunnies

"So basically we can assume that Karino want to be with Azusa without throw away his power"
yes,that's what I think at least ((:

I remember complaining about bunnies after chapter 8 too--but thankfully those were just in the raws.

Yeah but the bunny here is not the raw!! ╥﹏╥ I want azusa

Well put. 8 months + and we got bunny story ╮(￣▽￣)╭ *again*

I think you are right about Karino--but I do not know if Azusa is obsessed with being king. I think when Azusa was king, he took it for granted that everyone thought he was awesome and it was all his due. He was a player and he wants power, but he didn't see how easy it would be to loose power. That's why he scorned the jack--he took it for granted his loyal dog Karino would get him the king. Once Azusa became the target, he did not expect to change. It was all kind of a shock to him.

I think now Azusa is obsessed with getting back at Karino and making Karino kneel. I don't think Asuza cares about the game or being king. I don't think he cares about power for the sake of power. I think he cares about ways to make Karino his bitch this time around.

azusa is broken,and the school caste was a way to fell worthy and powerful,that's why he wanted to be the king. It was an escape from the real world. Karino wants to humble Azusa. After chap4 it seems like the relationship stopped developing. If they can't be together for real,outside the school what's the point then? It all changed when azusa realized it when he went to karino's house. He doesn't need to show his true colors to Karino,because nothing would change. I don't know,I hope something happens,that guy Tatsumi...we need him,cuz karino x azusa are both proud to admit their feelings or do sth. If it goes on like this,these 2 outside the school would act like they don't even know each other. If I'm not wrong the classmates said sth like the king and the target shouldn't even speak to each other,well when azusa went to karino's house that's what happened,but that was much more important cuz it wasn't a game anymore,it was reality.

*too proud to admit

Karino said that he didn't want to play the "friendship"game outside of school, and Azusa countered with "wait till the others hear this". It was as if the others expected Karino to let Azusa iin or something--I don't really understand. Azusais bent,but he isn't broken. That's what so cool about him. Being king made him feel powerful, but he also felt it was his due. He thought he really is cool, outside of being king. He really thinks the others are mostly lame too. Azusa is who he is because of his past--but he is who he is regrades of status too.

I don't think we should get an blatant admission of feelings. If anything happens, it has to develop sideways and rely on actions more than words. I don't trust Kuse's self-serving wall hitting outpouring, and it wouldn't suit either Karino or Azusa. What would work for me is hopefully at least a temporary turning of the tables so Azusa gets some power back, and (with or without the first part) that they realize their real game is with each other and that they both intend to keep playing it. Then they can see that they can play with who bows and who kneels, but they are both the same inside. I don't want them to say it--just act on it (if that makes sense).

I would still like to see them bring the game down (maybe all 4 of them?) but I don't think the story will go that way.

"Karino said that he didn't want to play the "friendship"game outside of school, and Azusa countered with "wait till the others hear this"."

Azusa said "wait till the others hear this" because karino in other terms said that it was just a game,not important. Being the King the class would be upset knowing that he doesn't care about it. I don't know what will happen,but I just don't want azusa to suffer anymore,that poor boy deserves better.

I agree. I think Azusa is due for a "win", even a small one.