Taku is a manipulative mf, indeed. But that's why I like him haha, crazy taste I guess. Bu...

My goodness. I so agree.

tbh I dont think it's the fact that Joowon is indecisive.... but rather he's *cowardly* when it comes to expressing his feelings. Like he's very much decisive in NOT telling Haesoo how he feels lol. And it's cause he fears loss?? Like he said in the story that he was SCARED how he would lose Haesoo altogether if he confessed. So he just didn't.

But if he and haesoo just met as regular high schoolers, I think their relationship would be a hundred times more clear. Joowon is always very straightforward in showing his emotions. If he's angry, happy, etc, he'll make it very clear. If he was in a relationship with any other 'regular' person I have no doubt he'd be quite straightforward.

But it's the fact that he and Haesoo started off with their parents marriage that messed him up and made him want to hide.... He thought that was the only way to "protect" what they have. Because even if their parents divorced, Haesoo still has an ongoing conflict with his mom and Joowon is aware of that. Joowon's dad also still asks them all to have dinner together. Their past as 'step-siblings' still hangs over his head. Joowon's job also adds extra pressure and conflict into their relationship (imagine if word got out that their parents married and divorced??). And it's not just those things, but in general Joowon mentioned how cant seem to escape their past and he's stuck in it,, hence why he's unable to tell Haesoo his true feelings for so many years.

Their situation adressed by you in your reply:

1. "Haesoo still has an ongoing conflict with his mom."
- Before and after Joowon confessed, this situation HASNT CHANGED at all.

2. "Joowon's dad also still asks them all to have dinner together. Their past as 'step-siblings' still hangs over his head. "
- Before and after Joowon confessed, this fact still HASNT CHANGED as well since they still both acknowledged it.

3. "Joowon's job also adds extra pressure and conflict into their relationship"
-Before and after Joowon confessed,  he still has his job. The situation HASNT CHANGED at all.


I think you just contradicted yourself. You said he's DECISIVE in NOT telling his feelings but what happened with the latest raw? He confessed even if the situation didn't get any BETTER nor the situation GOT RESOLVED.  And that was my point in him being indecisive. But yeah if that's not your own definition then maybe we're just looking at a different dictionary.  Props to you though for making me realize that he's not just indecisive, he's cowardly as well.

you keep saying the situation still hasn't changed?? but that's literally the point!!

i don't think you understand... joowon wasn't indecisive. he didn't keep going like "should i tell haesoo", "should i not tell haesoo", and did not keep flipping back and forth, not knowing what to do. he made a firm decision to not tell haesoo and stuck with that for many MANY years because he was scared of ruining what they had.
It's only very recently with Taku's entrance that made him realize: maybe not telling Haesoo wasnt the best thing to do. That was the point of his character growth: from being too scared to face his feelings, to finally facing it and telling haesoo REGARDLESS OF THE EXTERNAL SITUATIONS AROUND HIM. There was no indecision there. The problem with Haesoo's mom, his work, etc, all of that still exists. He just became braver with expressing his feelings.

So YOUR definition of being indecisive is something like this " should i tell haesoo", "should i not tell haesoo", and did not keep flipping back and forth, not knowing what to do."  Alright then read chapter 92, latter part of it when the lady asked if he wants to add a card and Joowon was in the middle of choosing one, he was like "Does this one look okay? Or this one? Maybe they're all the same" that was literally what Joowon said lol. Do you think the author just used those random dialogue for no purpose? Nah I think the author is still building their dispostion. For some it may just be some filler lines but to me I see that even though Joowon already has his great character development. His DISPOSITION still hasn't changed. Another example, chapter 90 when the waiter asked for their order, the girl was able to say what she wants to have but Joowon was like "i'm fine with anything". Again, that's not a flaw to me but his disposition. Nothing wrong with that.

I get what you're saying with him being decisive to protect his relationship with haesoo. But he was being indecisive when he let their relationship be VAGUE for years, with no assurance, no label. He can't decide if he wants to be a brother or a lover to haesoo. (Ofc their situation played a huge part of his decision making but for god's sake. It took him 10 YEARS! 10 YEARS! If you're someone who would take 10 years to decide then I dont want you, but ofc Im not haesoo sooo, back to my point that this is just a preference)

I believe that even if they were in a relationship things wouldn't work out. even now joowon is dilemmatic and hesitates, but whatever the ending is im still going to be satisfied

Your examples mischaracterize Joowon. His debate about what to write in the card stem from his genuine and unconditional love for Haesoo- because he actually cares, and realizes mistakes he doesn’t want want to repeat, he wants to do it right this time. That’s not indecision, and it’s also not cold calculation - just honest feeling. As for the meal with his friend, it’s pretty obvious that he wasn’t hungry or thinking about food, because he’s upset and regretful.

Joowon wasn’t torn about being a “brother”, friend or a lover, he just tried to patch any elements together that he could to be with Haesoo as much and as completely as he could, under the circumstances.

Your examples mischaracterize Joowon. His debate about what to write in the card stem from his genuine and unconditional love for Haesoo- because he actually cares, and realizes mistakes he doesn’t want want to repeat, he wants to do it right this time. That’s not indecision, and it’s also not cold calculation - just honest feeling. As for the meal with his friend, it’s pretty obvious that he wasn’t hungry or thinking about food, because he was upset and regretful.

Joowon wasn’t torn about being a “brother”, friend or a lover, he just tried to patch any elements together that he could to be with Haesoo as much and as completely as he could, under the circumstances.

To the original post, I usually have a soft spot for what would conventionally be described as villains, psychos, etc. but not in this case. I have an idea that they need to have a self-destructive edge, they need to be nuanced, they need to fail sometimes, and above all they need to feel something. I get none of that with Taku, he’s just flat for me, his feelings lack depth and his resolve as you put it is transient. On the other hand, my disdain for him is proportionate and in relation to my affection for Joowon’s character, so my perception is biased.

@Tortugas my reply to your first comment since I can't reply directly.

Take note you used the word "stem". Just we're on the same page, from oxford dictionary stem means originate in or caused by. Although you threw flowery and sugarcoated words such as "unconditional" and "genuine" (which is subjective). What it translates to ME is that to YOU, again YOUR opinion, Joowon's indecisive actions STEMMED from his genuine and unconditional love for Haesoo. Ironically, you mentioned it is not indecisiveness (which is okay, I'm not forcing anyone to use the same vocabulary) but his HONEST feeling? So him not being able to decide which card to pick was because he is being honest? Idk man but whatever I'll just respect your opinion lol. And the second example with the food, it translates to me that Joowon, not being able to decide on what food he wants STEMMED from him not being hungry or thinking about food (maybe? But that doesn't change the fact that he doesn't know what he wants and has difficulty in making decisions which is MY point of him, being indecisive).

I don't think I mischaracterized Joowon with my examples. Those examples are pretty straightforward, no matter what excuse or justification you gave, it didn't change the fact that he doesn't know what he wants and he can't decide on things. You used the word stem, so you actually agree that he is being indecisive, just that there are reasons or feelings behind that.

@Tortugas on you second comment.

Like what Luigi Pirandello had said "A different version of you exists in the minds of everyone who knows you". In reading a book it is also true.

Yeah, I totally respect your perspective. Unlike you, I won't say you mischaracterize taku just because we have different opinions.

Everything is subjective- including your interpretation of their actions. The verb STEM is correct and appropriate, and I didn’t use it in the sentence about food. The card shows that he is THOUGHTFUL which is not automatically indecisive (since that is your only way to access the merit of a character). The food example doesn’t work because it isn’t even a decision, it’s of no consequence at all -he doesn’t care about eating, he’s there to talk to a friend. If there was absolutely no thought behind any character’s actions, including Taku, they’d resemble robots rather than humans.

@Tortugas

Thoughtful is also subjective lol. YOUR own interpretation. So is mine (subjective) lol. I respect that. I literally wrote on my reply "which is okay, I'm not forcing anyone to use the same vocabulary".

I say that's indecisive because I have a lot of friends like that, when we eat at a restaurant or wherever, they would literally say the same thing and I would call them indecisive. (Which is again subjective, since we all have different interpretation). I have spent time with friends who are indecisive, they would usually say words such as "anywhere", "anyhow", "whichever" and I would take charge and do the decision making and choose where to go, what to do, and what to eat.

I didn't say you used word STEM incorrectly though. Read my reply again. You can't deny the fact that he had a hard time with his decision, which STEMMED (I used your own word which I think is appropriate as well) from him being thoughtful (in your own opinion).

Here's cause and effect for a clearer picture:
CAUSE: (stem)
1. Joowon being thoughtful. (Lol according to you which I respect but don't necessarily agree with)

EFFECT:
1. Since he's being thoughtful he had a hard time deciding on what to pick. (You can't deny he had a hard time on what to pick, which was in his dialogue. Which in my opinion is indecisiveness, because he doesn't know what he wants.)

CAUSE: ( stem)
2. Joowon is not hungry, doesn't care about eating, and his purpose is to eat with a friend. (According to you)

EFFECT:
2. Joowon didnt choose any food and is fine with anything. (Which is again my opinion, indecisiveness)

According to you "The food example doesn’t work because it isn’t even a decision, it’s of no consequence at all -he doesn’t care about eating, he’s there to talk to a friend."

Lol so choosing what to eat is not a decision??????? How can you even say there's no consequence when every decision leads to any type of consequence, small or big. Here's an article to back my claim that choosing what to eat is a DECISION: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/stretching-theory/201809/how-many-decisions-do-we-make-each-day%3famp
And why would the author include that line or dialogue when there's no purpose? Cause in my opinion, author is still showing their DISPOSITION (I already mentioned this in my early response.) A lot of times Joowon is having a hard time deciding I just used those two as an example because those are the latest and the first thing that comes to mind. His usual habit of not knowing what to say or do is his disposition.

Another example chapter 93, Joowon's monologue while inside his car, "I should probably tell him I'm coming. Call Song Taekyung? Nah. I don't have to tell him, do I? Heh, I'll just call Hesoo" you can say he's being considerate cause he doesn't want to disturb neither. But the thing here, he's consistent with that type of monologue. Dude don't even dare me to back read cause it would be a LOT.

Another example, I didn't even include this before cause I didn't remember his exact lines but now I was forced to revisit the chapter. In chapter 92, Joowon's monologue on what to write on the card, "What should I write? Hae..Soo.. it's me your hyung. You're grateful, aren't you? Wait no. " LOLOLOL "Excuse me, could I have a new card?" Gosh go ahead, make an excuse, make a long paragraph of interpretation that glorifies Joowon's good traits since some of you can't accept my opinion of him being indecisive in those 2 examples. I'll give you one, ' oh he's just being funny, you don't have to take that seriously. It's called having a sense of humor'. You can add more lol.

What I like about the author is her consistency in showing the character's disposition. They don't act out of their character. And that's on DISPOSITION.