idk honestly this story is good it was so good until this chapter were just going back to square one its frustrating
yeah, it's totally valid to feel frustrated/thinking it really was genius in the past but now it's not as good - maybe things will get better or at least become more interesting next chapter, maybe not. my own opinion/experience reading many other smug, rich asshole/poor, shy guy stories is that PotN has never been particularly creative or insightful in its writing, and i'm just here to appreciate the art/smut lmao.
I agree, I honestly think a lot of readers overrated both the story and Byeonduck's writing. I've seen someone comparing PotN to Dostoevsky...
I mean, it's ok if people like it but it doesn't deserve this popularity imo. It's full of stale clichés (wow the rich saying at the start he would never embrace a lowborn is now in love with a lowborn! How unpredictable!), and the author overuses the same trick with the misunderstandings over and over.
The worst part for me it's not that Seungho is back to his abusive self, but that I'm pretty sure he is gonna having a redemption (after the 1000th misunderstanding and in the 800th chapter of course). The author said that they wanted to write a more violent story but they chose fanservice over their plan.
I also think the story is overrated and overanalyzed.
It contains many of the most overused yaoi tropes and clichés
-typical seme/uke dynamics
(Seme - manly, taller, muscular, confident, sensual
Uke- small, femine, delicate, blushing, teary)
- from rape/abuse (kidnapping, beating) to love trope
- repressed sexually virgin uke/ experienced, "playboy" seme
- innocent,sweet,good,naive, pure uke/ badass,dark,sinister,possessive, "bad boy" seme
- younger uke/ older seme
- poor, lower class uke/ rich, high class, elite seme
- seme with tragic past
- problematic relationship between seme and his father.
So I don't really find it so refreshing and innovative as many make it be.
Plus there are some illogical parts and historical inaccuracy (but author admitted herself, she didn't do much research on that part, she is mostly basing the story on historical movies she used to watch).
> The worst part for me it's not that Seungho is back to his abusive self, but that I'm pretty sure he is gonna having a redemption (after the 1000th misunderstanding and in the 800th chapter of course).
yeah :/
i mean, i don't wanna assume before the story's over, jic byeonduck does stick with her initial impulse to make this more tragic, but if it really does end with SH being "cured" or "fixed" by ~love~ with the two having a conventional happy ending.....that's the opposite of fresh, ingenious writing lmao. i think ppl see the flashes of SH's psyche that she's written so far as evidence of something complex and new, and i'll give some credit where it's due, it is more realistic to show seungho return time and time again to violence, abuse, and mean-spiritedness than to have him change into a Nice Guy bc of true wuv uwu (and it's worrying to me that so many readers here expect it to work like that) - but, to me, there's nothing innovative or even that interesting about seeing into an asshole's "complicated" mind - i've seen this "maybe a bad person can become good over time??" character arc for men too many times for it to do smth new for me lol
I'm a Killing stalking fan so I'm biased, but I always disliked PotN because almost from the beginning I thought BD was trying to ride the wave of KS's success with similar characters and couple dynamics but without being as good as Koogi in writing realistic personalities. Seungho is basically a Sangwoo 2.0 with the difference that in KS their behaviour, misunderstandings and the situations made sense because of the context
Just an example, idk if you know Killing Stalking but I try:
Just like Nakyum, Bum (the uke), after trying to escape from Sangwoo several times during season 2, doesn't try anymore because he has nowhere to go (like NK) but not just for that: we know Sangwoo sold his apartment, he is not able-bodied (Sangwoo broke his ankles, plus he has BPD and suffers from extreme anxiety and depression), the only family left is a grandma and an uncle who raped him for almost all his life and above all, he is guilty of murder! Staying with Sangwoo really seems the most logical choice as weird as it sounds
When Nakyum says he has nowhere to go seems so forced, basically his noona said that (we don't know why, I suspect he is actually the son of a noble), but he is still able bodied and he can paint! We know from chapter 1 he even published his works, so he can makes a living with his paintings?
And don't let me start with the similarities between Sangwoo and Seungho, with the difference Sangwoo never got (thanks God) a redemption and his attempts to be a "better person" obviously failed. Ks was actually the answer to "maybe a bad person can become good over time??"and it was a NO
I think Byeonduck said in a Q&A that both Nakyum and Seungho will be happy in their own way (I admit this doesn't necessarily mean they will end up together though)
^ yeah that list just about covers it. i'm a casual enthusiast of the history of the romance genre, and PoTN follows the formula of the most famous het romance plots of all time (think along the veins of Pride and Prejudice, and even more accurately Hull's The Sheik, which i'd suggest ppl go check out - the plot there is eerily similar the plot in PoTN so far):
* the hero(ine) is somehow disadvantaged/under-privileged - they're a relatable underdog
* they enter a society/space they aren't used to, and in the process meet a man, the main love interest, who treats others (and the hero/ine) terribly
* there is a character/""rival" who is pining for the LI introduced (the caroline bingley character - in this case jihwa); in addition, the "main antagonist" may be introduced early or later, and this antagonist specifically seeks to hurt the main love interest for various Pure Evil reasons (the george wickham character - probably min here/others in SH's family subplot as well)
* the main LI sexually assaults/r*pes the hero/ine (this happens both in The Sheik and PoTN), and the rape fantasy will be crystallized later on as r*pe->love for the hero(ine)
- seeds of tension between the hero(ine)/main LI as the hero(ine) seems to have their eyes on another man/other interests outside of romance - which, ironically enough, is usually the instigator of the main LI's feelings for the hero/ine even if it annoys them (in this case, romantic interest in inhun+season 1's NK talking back to SH paired with his artistic talent)
* there is some element of the hero(ine) rejecting the main LI's romantic overtures, and this usually has explosive results - see the infamous rejection of mr. darcy's proposal, diana literally running away from the sheik and realizing she can never be honest with him, and of course NK running away in the past, which has resulted in SH's current insecurities blowing up in both of their faces
* a kidnapping/low-key hostage subplot that has the hero(ine) at the whims of the antagonist (the lydia being taken by wickham moment, and of course, this is the stage of the plot we're currently witnessing the aftermath of)
* the main LI's tragic past is revealed, after being hinted at for a while, usually by the climax of the plot, and this magically draws the two leads together after being estranged - this is usually the point where the r*pe fantasy finally transfigures into a pure love fantasy for the hero(ine), the classic "redeeming" (earned or unearned) moment for the main LI
* happy, passionate ending after any other descending action hijinks
i'm not that bothered by the historical inaccuracy, but i actually kind of would love a historical yaoi/BL that really tries its hardest to capture the actual covert gay cultures of the past, esp bc there are so many interesting questions about what consent/power dynamics mean when your only avenue for happiness is hooking up in a secret meeting spot, usually urban, where there are no modern conceptions of an identity that is "gay," and then having to keep double lives going.
i think im being taught manga lessons by this paragraph convo going on
You are right. I will not expect nothing from now. Thanks for the recommendation stranger.
lol sorry about all this, i'm pretty long-winded. in the end, i don't think there's anything too wrong with enjoying PoTN as it is now (and hey, my cynicism might prove wrong in the future, too), i'm saying all this bc i noticed a lot of ppl in the comments saying their mental health was actively getting worse reading the updates and thought maybe some meta that veered away from the usual praise and moved towards tempered realism might be helpful - that, or just dropping it for a while could work lmao.
I don't think BD ever read the Sheik but you are right!
For the last part of the comment: I "love" (spoiler: i don't ) how in this story everyone is gay and everyone knows and doesn't care: apparently the only homophobic people are the main "villains", Inhun and Seungho's father
oh yeah, sorry, didn't mean to imply she was like plagiarizing the sheik lol; it's just that the sheik has become so iconic for the rest of the generic r*pe fantasy romance genre that its storyline is basically the codifier for all others, whether authors are aware of it or not.
re: everyone being gay, the only homophobes being villains....yeah that's kinda cringe for me too lmao. it's the kind of thing that makes it obvious the author/most of the audience is het (or that they're lgbt and struggling to break from the heteromantic worldview). like i said, there's nothing wrong with liking Dark Romance But Make It Gay fiction, but like, it's sooooo wildly disappointing to just ignore maybe the darkest, most unique conflict that kind of twist offers, which would be insanely rampant, violent homophobia from individuals and the system.
Don't need to apologize, I don't actually like Byeonduck, I just admit the art is good but nothing else, also I still think she plagiarized Killing Stalking (I can point out several similarities and even copied scenes, in the last week chapter I found at least four) so i wouldn't find weird if she copied a classic
Another thing that bothers me of this story is that there are no female characters besides some extras, I don't know how Joseon society era worked but the lack of female characters who have some weight in the plot is unrealistically annoying
Oh this get me interested.
About which chapters (of KS) are u thinking?
Yes the lack of female characters is very questionable. Let's be real both Jihwa, Seungho and their fellow noble friends should have married a long time ago but there is no hint of them having wives.
There are many examples of similar scenes i really don't know where to start!
Even for yesterday chapter, BD used the same trick Koogi used for chapter 35 preview, showing Bum hugging Sangwoo, while at the end of the chapter we all know how it goes...
In the last chapter: - the nightmare with NK being choked is the same as Bum choked by the uncle in ch 49
- Nk finding comfort in Sh clothes is the same as Bum finding comfort in Sangwoo's clothes still in ch 49. (with the difference Koogi showed from the start that Bum since he was a little child, finds comfort in the belongings of the people he loves to feel them close)
-SH's hand trying to choke NK but then stops is the same Sangwoo does in chapter 59.
- Seungho buying NK clothes and having sex in the back of the store is very anacronistic, but since Sangwo and Bum had sex in public why not them?
- Nakyum eating the apple during the hunting scene is dangerously similar to Bum eating the apple during the "hiking date"
- The reaction Seungho has when he thinks NK escaped is exactly the same as Sangwoo in ch 13 (Seungho is clearly a bad attempt to imitate Sangwoo, they have a lot in common!)
- Nakyum has nowhere to go like Bum but tbh BD gave a lame explanation: while Bum has really nowhere to go, he has broken legs and he is guilty of murder. NK is able bodied and he can paint to make a living :/
- Seungho teaching Nakyum how to perform oral sex is mostly the same as Sangwoo teaching Bum in ch 6!
- Seungho giving NK head, like Sangwoo does in ch 51 to Bum!
I can continue for long ^^'''
Thank you! I'd love to see even more comparisons, it's really interesting.
Thank you for such detailed answer!
Tbh I read KS only once and as soon as it came out, I lost a little bit of interest in season 2 and even more in season 3 but still I was positively surprised by the ending.
Unfortunately I don't remember details so well.
But seriously I'm taken aback how much these two series have in common and you are right that most likely BD has taken some ideas and inspiration from Koogi.
Sigh. I remember how KS was destroyed by "fujoshis" which couldn't understand it's a story with BL elements not romantic yaoi and weren't interested in the plotline in the slightest.
Like I worded it badly. The ending of KS was in some places underdeveloped and ridiculous even but I was positively surprised but the fact that Bum and Sangwo didn't end up in some "lovey dovey" disfigured relationship.
By the fact*
I know I'm biased but I don't think it's ridiculous, anyways, I think Koogi was forced to rush the ending (not the last chapter, she planned it from the start, but the chapters leading to it) and close her series sooner than expected (basically she took part to some protests against Lezhin treating unfairly its artists, and Lezhin kinda bohicotted her). I hope you give another chance to KS, differently from PotN every detail there has a meaning in the story. Of course it's not perfect and especially season 3 has many flaws, but all in all I think it's a masterpiece that goes behind its genre (BL thriller), once again differently than PotN which is just a BL like any other.
I also think that a series shouldn't be judged by its audience, especially because most of those "fujoshi" are minors and the work is not even targeted to them
As for the ending, I think Koogi made the best choice: Sangwoo never getting his redemption is important, but it's also great Koogi showed him (and his mother) as a human. Abusers aren't monsters, they can love too, but love can't change people.
For me there were too many plot holes unfortunately and the ending was really rushed. But I fully understand Koogis's situation, just wish she had more time, strength and health to create the real masterpiece (it used to be in first season).
I hope i will have a chance to reread the story in the future.
Oh maybe I've worded it badly, I've never judged the series by its audience but problematic fandoms kill the joy I get while participating in discussions, conversations etc.
Hmm I wouldn't say that love can't change people. It definitely can help (be motivation) but in the end it's up to you.
...so I often notice a lot of the readers here hyping up byeonduck's skills a LOT, with meta writers waxing lyrical about her genius (and hey it's all subjective, so it's fine to feel her writing is still good), but i do think, since a lot of ppl seem pretty upset/are experiencing genuine stress from ch 62, that it's okay to recognize that this story isn't some grand classic in the making, that there are mistakes in her writing decisions, there are cliches, things that don't land well, pacing issues, whatever.
it's nothing to get so upset about you go harass her on twitter of course, and it's also absolutely fine to vent your frustration in whatever spaces are welcome to it (and if you have constructive crit that's also good to let authors know). i know it can be disappointing when you build up this ideal in your head about what a story is and then that doesn't pan out, and it's fine to drop a series for that or lowering expectations for it.
my own perspective is that i came into this recognizing it would probably be a kind of trashy erotica with good art, and there are glimmers of potential for unique writing, but there are some pretty obvious mis-steps that reduce it back to, well, trashy erotica (and there's nothing wrong with that necessarily if that's what you want); this chapter's most obvious problem being the too conveniently thrown-in death threat to prevent clear communication when it would be much easier/more believable to just show NK experiencing PTSD/him having a panic attack after, y'know, almost being murdered (not that that would prevent the victim blaming going on in the comments....).
as it stands now, it's a pretty typical the Weepy MC Who Occasionally Shows Backbone with his Hot, Troubled, and Abusive (but it's okay bc he's Sad and Loves Him and Might Change One Day) Boyfriend kind of yaoi fare unfortunately, and no amount of hopeful meta writing can undo the fact that the only thing NK and SH have together rn is really good physical chemistry (as has been pointed out, the two don't really talk or do much together outside having sex lmao).