yo' bubblehead because the site suggest it. People like xxxxxxx also like. you couldn't think about riiiight.
HIGH-larious. That's one raging case of butthurt.
Yep. Still can't prove causation. Gotta make up a new identity and deflect fast.
Uh-huh. "I'm only here to TROLLOLOL. Why nobody take me srzly? With added yo.
Yo' gluesniffer. The site thinks it's funny when x-tards get their asses kicked.
Lol! Did you mean to make that a pun?
Sure thing. *shifty eyes* Mm-hmm. It's what it gets for underestimating yaoi fangirls. We know how to put our reading material to use.
LMAO!!! And you did it very well!
Hee!
True.The thing that surprises me the most is, WHY does people take a work of fiction so seriously? When mature explicit contents/subjects like rape exist in all forms of media. I know there are trolls here but there are some people here who are commenting seriously too. It's just beyond my understanding. If what people read, made them, then I, myself would have turned into a psycho/killer/rapist/lesbian/monster long ago.
Japan does not need outside help to deal with their social issues. a lot of rapes go unreported in the west, Middle East, Afr. Central America and EU not just JPN. there are many reasons a victim does not come forward, far to many to state here. One being no support system and shame and death, In the many places the victim will be blamed . Rape is as old as man(and woman) and just as complex it has long been used as a tool of war. Manga did not invent it ,neither did Japan. when the French do it ( the filmed rape scene) they call it art and get away with it.
True,
if what people read or watch made them. With all the video games, mainstream American tv shows, and books I read. I would've been a psychopath long ago.
Hello. Gosh, I go offline for awhile because I have a life, and it ends up being Mardi Gras on the interwebs (as concerns this Little Corner of Yaoi.)
Which serious commenter? Would that be the first one, Joo, who crapped all over the manga, then crapped over everyone who downvoted her, and after her arguments were systematically dismantled and it became clear she was intellectually outgunned, flounced?
Troll.
Or, was that Kjibob-formerly-known-as-kjirkoh, the "former activist" whose account is a total sock-puppet (possibly that of Joo), came here to crap all over Japan and make fallacious connections between its cultural industries and nonexistent sexual assault stats, and to crap all over the readers here for not buying into her bigoted and female-sexuality-averse pet project, in some misguided dog-whistle bump up the stats on some external websites which may or may not have anything to do with her? And who, then, when challenged on the core premise of her arguments, that Japan (and, by extension, ALL of Asia) needs to be singled out and that there is some sort of magical leap between reading yaoi and raping people, flounced?
Total troll. And bigot. And idiot who doesn't understand what human rights really mean.
Or, would that be the last troll who rolled in after I was gone for my evening, XXX, staunch self-styled "ghetto defender" of those "po' l'il women-folk" who can't defend themselves or their arguments (ie., probably an MRA Schmucktivist) and ... yeah, yeah, how young do you have to be to believe any of that crap, so let's drop that ... and, rather obviously, tried to taunt me into doxxing myself? Here's a big hand-clap for lame attempts to impress us with his chivalry (defending po' l'il rape victims) by (1) ignoring Wow's public testimony and completely ignoring/wiping away her feelings and experiences as a survivor, (2) admitting to probably culpable homocide online (probably fake: it sounds like the imaginary day-dream construct of a 12-year-old), (3) demanding we all suck his (nonexistent) dick, and (4) trying to cow us with how we wouldn't survive on the streets.
Again, total troll ... and flaming asshole. It's kind of hilarious to read how he got his butt handed to him.
That makes for zero serious commenters who are not trolls ... (I'm going to continue this in another post.)
That's not to say there aren't serious commenters who are not trolls and who did not, for some reason, show up on this thread. There are some who just don't like the rape trope and, after saying so, leave it at that. Fine. No problem. Don't read if you don't like. There are lots of warnings and tags. Lots of "Beyond here, there be dragons." I think, as Juno pointed out, we have an expectation that, if they are lurking on an adult website which includes porn, they will act like adults and take responsibility for reading things that don't please them.
As for the rest, I think you answered your own question: no understanding. I would add "no desire to understand because of a core and misguided belief in their moral superiority".
If it's just a matter of not understanding, then they are willing to go through the process of learning. When they are told about ravishment fantasy being such a common experience for healthy adult women and their sexuality, they google those studies (which are plentiful) and accept that it doesn't have to be their "thing", but it doesn't make those who enjoy it, lesser in any way; it's just different. When they are challenged on their correlation equals causation fallacies, they realize that they have no evidence and cannot provide proof, so they accept the counter-arguments and bow to the wishes of those on the side of sexual liberty and freedom of artistic expression, basic human rights. When they are challenged on the notion that Japan is exceptional in any way from the rest of the world for its misbegotten and benighted attitudes toward sexual assault, and that it's cultural industries are, somehow, magically at fault for this, then they either supply proof, or they stop their useless caviling and find a truly effective way at making changes in the world, one which will make an actual difference in people's lives.
The rest are uncomfortable with female sexuality as expressed freely and safely in a niche community. They want suppress and control it. They use demeaning language and threats, just like the trolls that tried to roll this thread. Some of them are sexist piggies. Yaoi, especially rape-trope yaoi, would be the ultimate threat to MRA schmucks as women completely dissociate from the male gaze and dominate the sexuality of the males (who are drawn for the female gaze) in their fantasy experiences. We refuse to be controlled. How dare we! LOL.
Thumbs up.
And not just French films. The Italians, Germans, Russians ... even the Iranians, Yemenis, Saudis ... (albeit closet cases, there) ... all of them have their stashes of fantasy material. Why do you think Daesh, El Shabob and other fundamentalist sects are working so hard to wipe out historical documents and heritage sites? Of course, they don't want any historical records left to contradict their particular brand of cultural revisionism. You won't get anyone on these boards saying there isn't such a thing as rape-culture, although most countries and feminist organizations draw a distinction between high art and general rape-culture.
What we are challenging (successfully, so far) is the inclusion of rape-trope in yaoi within that rape-culture context, and the pivotal premise of that argument lies with the reality that yaoi is by women for women, who don't tend to go around raping people. I'm not going to say it never, ever happens, but it is so rare and aberrant, as to not really qualify as evidence, and I doubt that yaoi factors into their aberrations.
Juno mentioned the Sabine Women, a myth or legend from the Roman era. When the mountain passes unfroze after the winter of their abduction, they were offered the chance to reunite with their former spouses and families, but were so much better-treated by the Romans, all but a handful remained in Rome. Legends and myths withstand the progress of time because they speak to the inner shared experiences of large groups of people. The literal person takes the story at face value, is horrified and reacts from that placem with censorship and suppression. The materialist hears it and assumes that it's probably a historical record of the Roman conquest and assimilation of the Etruscan people, a slightly abstracted, slightly symbolic, but still literal. It's transcendence into the realm of art has to do with how men and women alike see it as a reflection, in storybook form, of a subtle inner experience related to their perceptions of reality—one which has nothing to do with whether the physical events actually happened in real life, or whether similar experiences continue to happen in this present day. It's "spiritual", and a symbolic and collective form of communication and expression, not related to whether the Sabine women and what purportedly happened to them ever really were. This is to draw the distinction that is art, because freedom of artistic expression is a human right.
LOL! That last line! EPIC!
And, no. I don't mean serious commenters by any of the trolls of this topic. Sorry, it's my bad for not making it clear. I was talking about other people commenting on this mangas. I really like this manga & come back to it from time to time to re-read it. After reading it, I like going through old topics. Couldn't help noticing similar comments like the thread master of this one(Joo). Even though they are smaller in number compared to other fan comments on this manga, it always ALWAYS makes me wonder the same thing as I mentioned before. Why take a work of fiction so seriously and labeling them as "unhealthy" or "stupid". I assumed they are serious commenters or at least not trolls as they did not behave like an immature 9 year old brat spewing illogical nonsense all over a thread (like the "XXX").
I usually try to avoid these types of arguments as much as possible as I like to keep my internet time peaceful & less irritating. But I really appreciate it when someone stands up to them with a meaningful sensible conversation, as I can't do it.
Yeah, I don't consider Joo a serious commenter because she always flounces when it comes down to defending her attacks on readers. She can't defend them, so she acts like a 13-year-old. Bog standard troll.
XXX, whoever that person really is on or off this site, was trying to trip me up. In a discussion forum on the internet, flinging around random links does not qualify as proof of identity. Nor does simply stating what one is or does, as in "I am an activist who works in ...". (Sorry, Juno, have to disagree with you there.) It is the overall pattern of reasoning and support and actions which add up over time: I stand against the suppression of female sexuality; I stand against suppression of free speech or artistic expression; I stand for sexual liberation as befits consenting human adults; I stand for that the rape trope in yaoi is purely symbolic, even when the story is going for verisimilitude and it's meant as a cautionary tale for adults, and that it is not meant to advocate for real life sexual assault or harassment, EVER! I stand for that yaoi readers are not rapists and do not support rape culture. In a situation like communication on this site, where the only evidence I can provide to support my claims of activism is through the use of words, I let the consistency and quality of my words over time speak for itself.
*ahem* Speak for "themselves". Typos aside.
Well. This more or less became the equivalent to a YouTube comment section.
Rape, coercion and blackmail? The senpai was utterly contemptible. This wasn't a romance, it was an exercise in Stockholm Syndrome.