You know what shouldn't be romanticized? Rape.
Yes, it's a twisted manga and messed-up things are bound to happen but that doesn't excuse the reader to react in a way that displays moral ignorance. E.g. "Ooh Karino shed a tear while gangbanging Azusa! Maybe he loves him!" or "Azusa just needs to be forced! He's too proud!" and that sort of sickening crap.
I agree whith you, some things aren't right even if they are fictional.
That's true. It's probably why I never liked the idea of Karino and Azusa ending together. I've been skipping the first four chapters because I wanted to see the retaliation part on Azusa then I found there were two stories wherein the second pairing started off nicely (and I was like in heaven bliss) until it turned shit as well.
I seriously don't feel any love between the characters. Even in the blooming Azusa x Kusakabe, I feel there is only admiration and respect between them (not love or it might change in future chapters) which are feelings enough for the greatest kind of friendship in this cruel universe they live in.
And it kind of pisses me off when people say "He's raping him because he has a reason" and all the chu-chu. There is NO reason justifiable enough to say that it's okay to rape even when you're deep in love with the person.
It's not okay, even if you have the darkest childhood than the Sith Lord itself. Your dark past doesn't give you any fucking right to rape.
Sorry, I end up ranting.
AMEN
actually you are wrong. Fiction is fiction. I don't think that people are so stupid to believe that what happens in a fiction is right in reality....unless they have certain tendencies. it's because we like to see the darkest part of human's nature and the darkest part of love. That may not be pleasurable,many may not like it,but it is not wrong. It is self expression,if someone doesn't like it,then don't read it. Some great books are very controversial and have been censured during history(like the books of de Sade....I never liked them,I even found them disgusting,but the writing is exceptional,I can't say it's wrong). I personally like to see controversial characters,something out the norm,something dark,I consider it beautiful. But in reality I know that it's wrong. Anyway,that's my opinion (:
I like darkness and controversy too. However, I think some people are objecting to the philosophical aspects of how some fans justify what a character does. That's just a part of discussion.
I think that kind of discussion is good, because it looks at how we "normal people" look at things such as rape, rape survivors and violence. It's not a question of someone copying what he or she sees in a book. It's more about how we think about these things. It's worth saying that it is never okay. You can still enjoy the dark story as fiction, but recognize that there is no way it could be justified morally.
ow in most yaoi manga rape is taken lightly, as a way to express 'love' and I have seen this in some mangas of this genre, (especially but not exclusively in yaoi) I always wonder why the put both rape and love together because to me thats not right it doesn't mather if its fiction or not. that connection is what bothers me and that why i said what i said.
I do not question the rape in the manga because is fiction I question the idea that being rape even in fiction can be considered justifiable or even romantic.
and in this I can be neither wrong or right because is my opinion on a fictional manga that collides with a moral issue and there are many variables to consider to see whether or not I am wrong. also I don't belive that if somebody wants Karino and Azusa together at the end or something like that, agrees with rape at some level, now THAT will be wrong we can not make those assumptions, nor i deny the dark side that we all humans have. is just that i wouldn't call this Love or anything alike .
I keep reading this manga because I'm really interest in what is gonna happen next, how the character are gonna behave, etc (is really an interest story) and because to me it has never
show some kind of conexion between the rape and the 'love' (if you can call that love) to me this isn't a love story.
Dostoevsky and Mishima Yukio are among my favorite classical authors. Their novels are very dark and I love how amazingly they portray the ugliest sides of humans in them. But despite that do I fail to recognize how revolting all the rape, murder, and torture (as the acts themselves, NOT their usage as plot devices) in these fictional works are and try to justify them? No. Because if I do, that would just reflect how shallow my perception of these serious issues are. Like @Anon and @Kirara7 perfectly put it, it's not a question of the readers copying what they see but how they're able to recognize that some of these things are just not justifiable, fiction or not.
P.S. de Sade's Juliette was kind of meh
omg finally people with common sense, I love everything about this conversation ╥﹏╥
I don't think we should romanticize this manga, because from the beginning all characters were pretty twisted, even Atsumo has proved now to have some kind of obsessive and dependent behavior.
At first I thought that some how they could be redeem, but now I can see that even if there is 'Love' between the characters, is the most sick and twisted version that I can imagine, this is not a very romantic manga but it has a great history.
And honestly I don't think this chapter 8 is gonna be the worst of all, I bet there is even worst than this, Sensei is know for having some pretty f*ck up stories.
pd: forgive my english, I speak spanish