Dana is a victim, period.

I still don't get why people, like @Ryu despise Dana so much, it doesn't make any sense.

I think it’s tricky in situations like this. Like, if you just kiss someone while you’re in a loveless, political marriage then immediately say, “I will get divorced,” is that still cheating? I really don’t know how to feel in these situations. If you’re sleeping with a lover while married, even if you feed them empty words about divorce, are we supposed to compare that to what Dana did? I in no way condone cheating, nor do I condone the many bad decisions Dana made, but this most recent thing is a very weird situation. I guess in the end, it will ultimately depend on whether Dana’s promise has any true meaning to it.

Cheaters don't get a pass, abused or not. If you don't get that, I don't know what will.

'Her father stole all her freedom and rights'
> she had so much freedom to sneak around to form a relationship, much less snuck out to have sex?

My point is, I don't mind that y'all understand Dana's situation, but let's call what we see as it is and not make excuses like 'is the marriage really valid?' Or 'is it really cheating?'

Cheating is very black and white. Whether Dana married for convenience or not, the fact is she is married. And married people whether men or women should not have to kiss a third party romantically. What is soooo hard about that idea?

Accord some self respect and wait for the kisses after a divorce. You make it seem like Dana didn't have a choice but to kiss Moon in that situation.

I will not waste my time talking with you, and will only answer you once. In the comments below you state something along the lines "If it was me, I will definitely not cheat on my husband, forced marriage or not". How is your reasoning even possible ?

Can Dana cheat on someone she didn't want in the first place ? You're so narrow minded that, for you, it's either black or white, good or wrong. Since Dana is now the wife of a man she was forced to marry, the proper thing to do, would be to follow the right procedure, get a divorce contract, and then everything would be moral - Really ?

Why would Dana follow the right procedure, when the right procedure wasn't applied to her in the first place ? She didn't get to choose anything. She was abused and manipulated by her father, thought that her one and true love was dead because of her, traumatized, she then was forced to marry a man she didn't even know.

God, even the catholic church don't consider a mariage valid if there is coercition. For Dana it was either death or being exiled - How can such marriage be viewed as something other than forced ?

Hence, Dana didn't cheat on anybody, she is a victim, period.

It's coercion not coercition.

So now you're boxing Dana that her only choice is to act recklessly because we can't really place high expectations of women to behave properly when they're in an unpleasant situation? Mind you she is an EMPRESS. The highest expectation of proper is accorded and expected of her. She didn't just marry anybody too, she married into power and didn't exercise none of that.

Let's put Dana's inaction on the side because that's a whole new conversation.

Your reasoning tells me you're the type who excuses wrong doings when you are wronged too.

Two mistakes don't make a right.

Dana isn't in a loveless, political marriage, she is in a forced marriage. By thinking Dana is some sort of a cheater here, it's like explaining to all the littles girls and women around who were forced to marry someone they didn't want, that they all are cheaters.

Being forced to marry someone you don't love can't possibly be a valid marriage. If the marriage isn't valid, there is no need for divorce, hence, there no cheating whatsoever.

I'm French so my English isn't good at all.

I will answer you once more.

I'm not talking about other women, I'm talking about Dana. She didn't act recklessly and she isn't in some unpleasant situation - she was forced to marry someone she didn't want. She didn't get to choose. And now she want to choose her fate. That's the only fact we have. Again, "why would Dana follow the right procedure, when the right procedure wasn't applied to her in the first place ?". She should divorce the man her father forced her to marry, before getting free ? Come on, what makes you believe that she could do that ?

Not everybody can be strong and act as freely as they want, because some people like Dana are scared, abused and traumatized.

God, how the the fact she is now an Empress change anything ? Remember the French revolution ? Our king was a king, but a weak one, hence, he died. Dana is weak. Some people are weak. It doesn't change the fact that she is a victim here.

Because she didn't choose her fate, she isn't responsible, that's all. If a girl is forced to marry out of her own free will, how breaking the chains of a false marriage can be considered cheating ?

She IS in a loveless, political marraige. why are you contradicting yourself?

also, who in the modern times is forcibly married off would read comics like this? And to the the little girls... which parent allowed them to read a comic which has explicit scenes in it? little girls wouldn't even be interested in this kind of comics.

What you probably meant is impressionable young girls, and to correct you; your adamant stance that kissing another man despite a forced marriage is okay because you didn't want the marriage anyway creates a loophole where young impressionable girls will form their own world view like "it's okay to kiss another guy, my mom forced me to date my boyfriend anyway", or "it's okay if I go out with other guys despite being married, my parents forced this marriage anyway"

what the fuck do you think happens to the children of these married couples who think like that? Oh let's go fuck up our society, my individual happiness matters more than these moral decency crap.

And to be precise, women who are forcibly married in real life do not go around thinking of having a relationship outside their marriage. What do you think do they do? They try to get to know their husbands and work things out from there, and if it doesn't work, some of them decides to divorce and actually settle matters first before opening themselves up for another relationship, do you think real life women just think about romance and none of their other responsibilities like working, providing for the kids (if any), keeping tabs on the household finance, yo, a lot of moderm women have to think about important matters and not just about romantic shit.

Also, "If the marriage isn't valid, there is no need for divorce, hence, there no cheating whatsoever" ....then why did Dana say she will divorce?

She acknowledges the validity of the marriage herself.

"She didn't act recklessly and she isn't in some unpleasant situation"
> She acted recklessly = kissing a man outside marriage & suggesting divorce IS reckless, the rebels can use her reckless words and actions to fuel the fire of their cause, peasants do not like a royal who give no fucks about their suffering. Being French you should know that by your own history.
> unpleasant situation = any situation you don't like is an unpleasant situation, I'm using these words because it describes Dana's whole ordeal

"She should divorce the man her father forced her to marry, before getting free ?"
> Kissing a man isn't getting free.

"Come on, what makes you believe that she could do that?"
> have you seen the emperor? he's so whipped there's the probable chance he'd let Dana have her way with a divorce. And remember Dana said so herself, if she can't divorce she'll runaway with Moon.
> Also, if we follow your logic; you're suggesting Dana just keep on cheating to his husband with his brother because Dana can't possibly get out of the marriage anyway. That ain't right.

"Not everybody can be strong and act as freely as they want, because some people like Dana are scared, abused and traumatized."
> yeah she's so abused, scared and traumatized that she was able to sneak away MULTIPLE times to see Moon, and she's so scared, abused and traumatized she even slept with another man while she is engaged.

"God, how the the fact she is now an Empress change anything ? Remember the French revolution ? Our king was a king, but a weak one, hence, he died"
> your king died because he doesn't know how to rule his kingdom and he oppressed his people by taxing all sorts of shit to fund their lavish royal lifestyle. Dana on the other hand doesn't have to rule because she is not the king, she does have power though, and no one is denying that she is an abuse victim. you using the excuse of her abuse as a pass to kiss another man has nothing to do with each other at all. that is the problem.

"Because she didn't choose her fate, she isn't responsible, that's all."
> She is a grown woman, don't handle her with kid gloves. Just because you're abused doesn't give you a pass to act like you're single.

"If a girl is forced to marry out of her own free will, how breaking the chains of a false marriage can be considered cheating ?"
> breaking the chains means kissing a man for you?

I'm not contracting myself. If you don't get that the main point I'm referring to isn't that Dana is in a "loveless, political marraige" but a forced marriage, it isn't my fault, it's yours only.

"also, who in the modern times is forcibly married off would read comics like this?"

Really ? Can't you just understand that the problem isn't the fact that in our modern times many girls who are forcibly married off would read this kind of comics. The problem is that many girls are forcibly married off. Period. Just like Dana, and in either cases, it's wrong.

And what the actual fuck : I'm not talking about boyfriend issues - I'm talking about forced marriage. I'm saying that if a girl is forced to marry someone, then she can break free of that very marriage, because it's not legal or moral. The only loophole there is, is in your head.

Forcing someone to marry you isn't right and you dare make a comparaison in which break free of such violent act is for "individual happiness". Dana was forced. That's all. Get that already.

And no. You think that those who are forced to marry can freely do what they want and divorce ? For Christ's sake what nonsense are you spouting. NOT EVERYBODY CAN CHOOSE - It's the very purpose of a forced marriage.

"....then why did Dana say she will divorce?" You're answering a question with a question. A forced marriage is invalid, as it should be - That's all.

No she didn't act recklessly. She choose to be free. She wants to be free of a marriage she didn't want in the first place. And I repeat a forced marriage isn't a valid one, because, there isn't any consent possible.

And no, she isn't in an unpleasant situation : she is in violent situation where she don't have the rights to choose her own fate.

"Kissing a man isn't getting free" : kissing the man you though was dead, the man you wanted to marry, the very man your father stopped you to have, getting free from your abusive father and an unwanted marriage : yes, definitely, she can choose for herself now. People who are free can choose whoever the fuck they want.

"she's so abused, scared and traumatized that she was able to sneak away MULTIPLE times to see Moon, and she's so scared, abused and traumatized she even slept with another man while she is engaged" : What about it ? Are you suggesting that because she could sneak away, she wasn't "that" abused ? How that fact change anything, even as an Empress she is scared of her father ! She is terrified of him ! "She is a victim" you keep saying that but you don't get it at all.

"your king died because he doesn't know how to rule his kingdom and he oppressed his people by taxing all sorts of shit to fund their lavish royal lifestyle blabla..." : yes Dana is weak, traumatized, scared, but she should act out of character because this weak woman could do so much ? You put so much responsibility that woman, I'm speechless.

"She is a grown woman, don't handle her with kid gloves. Just because you're abused doesn't give you a pass to act like you're single" : yes some grown women, whiteout any freedom can be weak. And if those women are forced to marry someone they don't want, they can surely act as if they have the choice. Nonsense.

#1 Dana herself acknowledges the marriage being valid by suggesting divorce.

#2 it is unpleasant because despite the 'forced marriage', she is provided for and not abused by his husband emotionally or physically. a violent situation is when your life is in imminent danger. you're amplifying a simple situation to the extreme to prove a point, and that is not factual.

#3 I don't know if it's you being French, but freedom entails a lot more to me than kissing a man. As a woman, that's very diminutive. Again, poor representation of women empowerment by the author.

#4 SHE WASN'T ABUSED IN THE PAST AT ALL. She is a abuse victim but not to the extent that you are painting her in. It's your imagination that led you to believe Dana was severely abused from the start. A severely abused victim would have physical signs on her body like feet, back, and places hard to detect, but we all saw Dana had clear smooth skin when she had sex with Moon. What is not written on the story, I do not leave up to speculation unless emphasized on. The author only showed Dana with a bruised back one time, and never on the previous occasions of her backstory AT ALL. So you assuming that Dana was severely abused from the very start is wrong, because it is never even hinted at in the backstory. Her father was strict, but she had freedom to sneak around, her body naked didn't have any speck of bruise or even a small scar? She may have been abused days before her wedding when her father met her again, she may also have been abused by the queen dowager, but it was never alluded/hinted/showed that Dana was abused AT ALL in her backstory. Let's stick with the facts.

#5 You put so much responsibility that woman, I'm speechless.
...you diminishing responsibilities from a woman is very reductive. can't Dana do something productive in those 9 moths at all? Knit a sweater girl, do something. Women should not be handled with kid gloves. Yes, she was abused, but her abuse does not excuse her from her decision to kiss another man and suggest divorce because again, let me repeat, her abuse does not have anything to do with cheating.

#6 "yes some grown women, whiteout any freedom can be weak."
>I didn't really get this part, so I'm not gonna address it.

"And if those women are forced to marry someone they don't want, they can surely act as if they have the choice. Nonsense."
> WOW. Do you know what happens to women who would follow your advice if it were, let's say Saudi Arabia? they'd be killed for sleeping with another man while being married. And for you to champion that kind of thinking, while you enjoy as much freedom, some don't. And you're advocating in the wrong way. Divorce your husband so you can finally get frisky with another guy without the repercussions, or ran away if you can't divorce. But don't get frisky ASAP just because you believe it's a hopeless situation.

Your suggesting to just wing it and if they get flack afterwards, it isn't their fault because ohh the freedom is worth it!

Waiting is not denying yourself freedom, it's doing the right thing in the right order.

And if you don't want to do the right thing because it's stifling your freedom, then that's selfishness.

#1 Dana acknowledges the marriage because that's the law. She did get married off to a man. A man that she didn't want, thus suggesting a divorce. What about it ? A forced mariage isn't valid because the victim wants to divorce. There is no such thing as a valid forced marriage.

#2 A golden cage is still a cage. A prison is a prison. It doesn't matter if the husband you were forced to marry is not abusive. The very fact that Dana couldn't choose her partner is the problem. And no, a violent situation isn't necessarily when your life is in imminent danger. A violent situation is when your fondamental rights no longer exist because someone other than yourself gets to choose your fate.

#3 Yes, because I'm French I value my freedom very much. And freedom entails that women can freely choose the man they wants to marry, it's our right. Here Dana didn't promised faithfulness or anything out of her own free will, her father forced her, thus her words wasn't her choice. It was either death or being exiled.

#4 I didn't assume anything except that she was a victim of abuse. She was abused to the extent that she was still afraid of her father even after she becomes an Empress. And you don't get to choose how strong the affect of an abuse can be for a victim, because not every victim are alike. Some are stronger than others. And, by the way, it's not because you have a "clear smooth skin" that you can't be emotionally abused.

#5 I'm not diminishing responsibilities from Dana. She is a weak woman, that's true. But Dana didn't want to be an Empress in the first place why would she act like one ? If she didn't want to be productive, then that's her right too.

Of course her abuse does have everything to do with the current situation because she was forced to marry someone she didn't want ! When your freedom is taken away from you then you can't be responsable of what was force on you. She didn't want to marry anybody except Moon, that's the facts we are aware of. But her abusive father choose otherwise. And I repeat you can't cheat on someone you didn't want in the first place.

#6 You didn't get my point at all. It was an ironic comment meaning : if some women are forced to marry someone they don't want, they "can" "surely" act as if they have the choice. It's nonsense because those women don't have any choice that's why they can't act the way they want to. Dana can't do anything except being married off against her will. If she isn't free, she can't possibly give her consent : so she isn't responsible and she is not cheating. No legal court would approve such marriage.

And just so you know divorce isn't a woman rights in Saudi Arabia, most can either die or run away. In conclusion, there is no waiting when someone or even the society is denying your freedom, there no right order either because everything is set against you and your fondamental rights.

Why would anybody follow the rules of those that oppress them ? Why should Dana do the right thing when her rights were utterly denied ?

So just chaos? That's it? If you can't exercise your FULL rights of cheating on a husband you don't love, it's alright because you were wronged first?

Utter and complete chaos just to fulfill your carnal desires? As if a womam's only drive in life is romance? Fuck everything I have to fulfill my desires, fuck the responsibilities, I didn't want them anyway?

I'm sorry but Asian culture respects altruism and other peoples welfare very much. We don't advocate personal gains first and modesty is part of that.

Let's just call it what it is.

You're okay with Dana being selfish and hurting the people around her all the time because her romantic indecisiveness is forgivable because she is an abuse victim.

I say Dana is capable of so much more but she is written with a flat characterization. She reduces women's suffering into a plot device where men are the only one who can save her. And these representation is harmful for impressionable girls. Cheating and lying is not something to be admired. And women don't need men to solve their problems for them because they can solve their own just as well.

If your upbringing as a liberated french man/woman colors the discussion, my Asian conservative views will not be swayed by yours because we value certain things differently, we see right and wrong differently.

You say brave. I say cheater. You say deserving. I say reductive.

Moot point. ╮(￣▽￣)╭

You’re right about how cheating is black in white, but this is only in most cases. Keep an open mind and consider all the details in the relationship. Cheating is only considered bad because it’s basically betrayal. You trust someone or you agreed with them that you would be loyal and be with only each other. In this case, Dana did not agree to the marriage or any of the terms. This was an agreement between her father and her husband. So, she didn’t promise anything. Betrayal can happen in a lot of ways. For example, you are in a relationship with someone and they were super nice when you first got to know them, but now they are cruel and abuse you. You trusted them to love you and care for you, but they broke that by abusing you. They betrayed you. Cheating is only one of the ways of betrayal. If you really want to say she betrayed someone, it’s not her husband, but her father. Her father had trust she would be obedient and listen, but she had an affair with another man. Again, cheating is only bad because it’s betrayal. There was no betrayal involved because she did not agree to the marriage, her father did. This was not her choice. Not everything is as black and white as you think. Consider the possibilities. If it doesn’t fit your morals, i respect that, but don’t push it onto other people. Especially when they aren’t wrong either.

I'm a conservative French woman, and a catholic at that. And yes, I don't like forced marriage, because there is nothing good or moral about it.

I didn't say "brave". I say "forced marriage". I didn't say "deserving". I say "forced marriage".

Since your brain can't understand that if someone is forced to marry, then that someone isn't just being "wronged" but violated at the very core of their human rights, it's not surprising you think Dana is a cheater here.

How is that chaos to want the same rights as everybody else ? How is that only "carnal desires" when you choose to follow your own destiny and not the one others have set for you and force on you ?

I'm sorry but French culture respects freedom, human rights, and that's the very purpose of this manga, to not let other people choose your fate. To not let your dreams, hopes and rights be taken away from you.

And I dare to believe that forced marriage isn't alright with human rights even in Asian culture.

Dana didn't want to be an Empress so she don't have to be one. If she didn't want to marry anyone except the one she wanted, it's her right. Unfortunately, she was deprive of her rights, because the society she lives in sucks very much, hence end up with someone she didn't want.

Dana can certainly do a lot if she wanted to. But she is weak. Weak people existe. Weak women exist too, you just need to accept that. Not everybody can be like Ellin. But it's not because you are weak that you don't have basic rights.

I just want to say, thank you. Was it so hard to understand that force is force and this makes people break or weak. What Ryu thinks is right isn't what Dana thinks is right. Love is love. Force is force. Dana was weak bit she's changing slowly. Some people speak shit about an art piece before it's even done. And even then, it's based on you if you like it. If you don't, just move on the next piece. Coz truth be told, I hate the Mona Lisa but I've never said it coz it's subjective. It's art is all. I can't be judgements about stuff that is subjective.
In real life nothing is black and white, people. Not all answers need to be answered in a 'yes' or 'no'. Not everything has order.
Society/ politics/ even religion in some context is shitty coz it's creating rules, norms, etc for their own benefit. And it's most likely not benefiting you.
Eg. How they use rules to make something you're doing for ages to seem wrong? Like family planning to either increase/decrease new population. Like banning being a pedophile only in Greece in the Bible and that verse being used to force people who are gay to feel like shit. Or even this idea: it's ok to have concubines to f*c* as they please for men and a woman shall die if she looks at other men, even if at only one man for love.
All of this stuff is stuff you are being forced to believe.
Rather than being judjemental, people should start thinking in this way, "I'll never be able to do that, but it's ok coz I am me and they are them". It's dumb to expect everyone to do as you are made to think everyone should behave.
That's all, thanks for reading,
Peace ,
The. M.

her father didn't compete to become the empress, Dana did. Her father only made it possible for her to join the contest, he didn't compete himself. The King never even talked to the father, ever.

What do you guys think are being exchanged in a marriage ceremony? Promises of loyalty and respect. It's not just signing a piece of paper. At least, in Asian settings. And looking at the clothes of the characters, it's an Asian setting too.

That is the smoking gun of betrayal.

How hard is it to respect a marriage? If you don't love your husband and you were forced to be in it, doesn't give you the rights to get frisky because you felt like you were forced in a situation.

Having some decency doesn't stifle freedom. It's called delaying your gratification.

The king has known now for a long time that she doesn't love him. Maybe divorce doesn't exist in this era but she doesn't even like it when he's close. By now, he should know that. I don't think he has a say in Dana's life, even after marriage.
When the one who you love is dead, and when they finally come back, if you still love them... You need to work for your own happiness.
I love that she's being selfish, finally. You don't. That's ok.
Also, your thoughts on marriage and love seem a little different than mine.
For me, if she liked the king and chose her own actions, I'd say that she's cheating.
End I read Hadomae, I hated the female lead coz either she chooses one or she goes with them all i.e. a poly relationship.
Dana's not into multiple people. She's had enough of being controlled. She wants to be happy and Kiha also wants that coz he's tired of her being sad. He said something like ' I'll bring you the person who'll make you happy'.
I'd say that gave her the idea that Kiha's trying to bring Moon to her or something.
Whatever happens, I got to say, her character has some major flaws. Like, if she could sneak out, couldn't she run away? Was she that dumb and brainwashed? I'd say, yeah.
Also, about her being 'frisky' I'm sort of in the middle ground.
What would I do if the person who I love the most shows up after I'm married and being held captive? I'd be soo scared and broken that I might just be impulsive enough to forget about the guy I don't even like. All I'm saying is I'd be in a bad state if I were kidnapped. Moon's the hero here for her. I'd kiss my hero too if they are my long lost person.
For me, marriage ONLY exists when there's MUTUAL love. And everyone makes mistakes when they are down.
All of this is subjective.
This one's specifically for you.
I hope you follow all marriage rules so that you aren't a hypocrite.

Peace ,
The. M.