I wanted to like this because I'm into shorter semes and taller ukes but chapter 3 left me...

I've gotta agree here... most of the readers of the Yaoi genre are FEMALE so technically putting down females is putting down the author's audience, isn't it? I mean come on! Of course some people will freeze when thrown into a scary situation, and others will overreact and shit themselves, while still others will be calm cool and collected thereby solving said problematic situation... It's not a "gender thing" it's a "personality thing" that differs from person to person... and I'm sorry, at WHICH POINT was Yuzu protecting Hiiragi exactly? Because she came out burned and he didn't have a scratch on him! o.O Just sayin... And another note here... I think that if Yuzu wasn't Gay or if he was Bi, he would be COMPLETELY compatible with Hiiragi-sempai! She's the man, and he's the woman in the relationship which, (oddly enough is my EXACT family dynamic... my dad is more like a nurturing mother hen, while my mom is the "rub some dirt in it" kind of rough masculine figure and quite frankly), is not a bad thing!
It's just a little different from most... what's wrong with that? She didn't deserve to be yelled at or put down and belittled like she did something wrong the way that Issei did... she saw an innocent helpless puppy and wanted to be it's owner... YUZU IN NO WAY PROJECTS AN IMAGE OF BEING SELF-SUFFICIENT WHATSOEVER, so I don't know WHERE Issei gets off being pissed at her! The whole reason Issei is with Yuzu is BECAUSE Yuzu is "THE PRINCESS" of the relationship, WHO NEEDS A MAN TO SAVE HIM! UGH! If you're a HEAVY SUBMISSIVE in every aspect of the word and your life, then every single "HEAVY PROTECTIVE" type is going to seek you out! THAT'S A GIVEN! Someone who is super shy, quiet, and introverted will automatically attract someone with a loud, forceful, strong-armed, independent extrovert! Hiiragi did NOTHING wrong....

So to conclude... I AGREE! XD


-Shadow

It's not belittling women because they're not attracted to women. They're belittling women because the seme says DIRECTLY that the prince-like female character may ACT like a chivalrous man but in a dangerous situation, she is helpless, as any woman would be. That is sexist and belittling. You can like a thing and acknowledge that it's flawed but for me, it's a deal-breaker.

Nobody mentioned anything about who pays for a date. That has nothing to do with the scenario in the manga or my comment.

It's pointless to reply if you don't understand what I'm saying.

I read a lot of 19th century British lit, so the idea that women are no good in a cri

I read a lot of 19th century British lit, so I'm used to ignoring uncharming ideas like that women are no good in a crisis, need protection, blah blah. I can enjoy the manga, but I won't concede the point that this manga is straight up mysoginist. The problem isn't that the manga shows one woman as a villain, but SAYS that all women are weak. That just IS dangerous patriarchal poppycock.

Or its in the translation. (⊙…⊙ )

Or it's in the translation. (⊙…⊙ )

This is exactly my problem with it. You can appreciate media that has problematic elements in it as long as you understand that it has elements that are offensive in some ways.

shut up dude

It's true that males are more prepared physically in terms of endurance and strength.
But this was a fire. So genders had nothing to do. Hell not even age! I've had to deal with a lot of electricity and fire related issues because my mother is scared of it.
It was misogynistic because with a problem that had nothing to do with gender. The same made it seem like it was.
It's also true that Japan (and Asia in general) have some extremely ancient views regarding women place in society. But this is a manga read by women and you can make a difference by depicting them differently. If the aum was to shoot down a love rival, it could have been dealt differently. It should have.
And regarding shoujos. I stopped reading them because they as misogynistic as they can get. The main girl is never the main character. It is just disguised to make it seem so. If you analyse most shoujo, you'll see that the girl character has no depth at all and no character development. She's just there looking cute and perfect while the male charactereris the one that gets the development. You might as well put an inflatable doll. Shoujo girls are the very definition of pixie girls.
And BTW it wasn't chivalry. It was straight up patronising and assholery what the seme did. And is not because we are"so called feminist" that get mad but because it was wrong.
If it was a different scenario like something heavy falling on top of them or something then your argument about being physically different would have been spot on.

As an open minded woman I admire your views - and your eloquence. I consider myself to be a strong woman, capable of dealing with any situation - be it cooking or ass-kicking, but I also appreciate the chivalry of a man who opens a door for me or pulls out a chair for me to sit. Chivalry is just semantics for being polite.

Why must we, as women, see being cherished and protected as a sign of our own weakness. Being cared for does not mean you are weak, it simply means you are being cared for. This is the issue for the girl in this manga. She sees the uke as weak when he is far from it...she is stereotyping his effeminate nature as if he were female. If anyone wants to complain about a character being sexist, they should complain about her, not the seme. Caring for each other should not have anything to do with gender roles or their stereotypes.

I wasn't going to say anything since this comment was left a while ago. But I can't stop myself. I just want to point out that you completely negate your first argument with the second one. You're mad the author is putting down females. Because "it's not a gender thing" then the next thing you start talking about is the female role. How your dad is the woman in your parents relationship. Yep there goes your argument collapsing on itself.

I don't think it's sexist or misogynistic at all. Rather I was not happy with the way the sempai treated yuzu. Just because he is effeminate does not mean he is not strong or reliable or that he needs to be carried around and protected like some weakling. Even yuzu did not like the way he was treated by her. She did not love him, she took him as some puppy that needed to be babied. If you complain that icchan was sexist then you should also bring up sempai's stereotyping effeminate men like yuzu. Let me point out that icchan does not view yuzu as unreliable despite his mannerism, which I like. He even says it to yuzu. And you know, people are always going to expect you to help a woman first before the male. So... the wording could also be because of the translation.

I agree with you and am a woman as well.

I agree...that was just...yikes. The mangaka shouldn't have brought gender into it. There should be more girls like Hiragi in yaoi (and other manga genres too).

I don't want to start anything, but Hiragi is not sexist for treating Yuzu the way he wants to be treated. He's been saying throughout the entire manga that he wants to be "the girl," that he wants to be a princess, that he wants to be saved, he wants to be shorter than the seme, etc. That's just his personality. The only issue there was between them was that Yuzu didn't feel the same way about her as she did about him. Which happens.

I will put a personal example: I'am an ER physician and my personality is somewhat like Hiragi I think of myself as a strong woman. In my line of work I have seen and done a lot of procedures so I'm pretty confident on my skills. One day while in a family gathering there was a small accident and even though I knew exactly what I had to do my mind went completely blank so my first reaction was to take that person and dash to the hospital, luckily my friend who is also a physician slap me and took control of the situation. I started crying like there was no tomorrow then my friend hit my head and said "this proves that you are as helpless a anyone", then he explained no matter how strong or prepared you think you are in the end you are nothing more than a mere human; your emotions got the best of you this time. So I don't think the author was trying to belittle woman, instead he/she was trying to use the kitchen accident tell us that first it doesn't matter how strong you think you are when confronted with a dangerous situation your reactions might not be what you expect (just like me) and second even if someone looks weak he/she might be stronger when confronted with a dangerous situation and that's what Yogi is telling Hiragi, that she reacted in a normal way and that Shibata may look weak and girly but that does not make him weak.

I just wanted to say I actually thought He said that more as a message for his boyfriend than for the sempai. He knows the bf has been struggling with the height thing and then the weight thing and he used that as an opportunity to stress that he is not a girl and doesn't have to be cute and small etc etc. Just like what was already mentioned he told him he never thought of him as a princess etc (and even tho hes tall hes still cute). I've read this a few times and thats always the feeling I got so I was surprised to see this debate, but I can understand why maybe it was seen differently by other people. ╮(￣▽￣)╭

I see what you mean, I personally wasn't offended because he meant well. Maybe if he'd used a different choice of words. He was probably highlighting the fact that she wasn't able to step up and protect herself in that moment, and he was helping her realize that his uke- I forgot their names oops- wasn't as "ditzy" as he seemed. That's just my opinion, but she treated him like a child.