any yaoi with rape but in the end they'll end up together. either the seme is the older th...

I see your reasoning, but yeah, its not like I agree.
Do you have some text to check more about on: "Rape in art is not rape." ?

I don't support censorship or religious-style oppression. The onus is not on me to prove anything. You have an artistic tradition dating back, in the west, to the Renaissance, and a massive body of critical writings to refute, and you don't have truth or reality on your side. I'm not about to support you in attacking people here. You are in the wrong place, making the wrong arguments to the wrong people. You won't accomplish anything here because you are attacking something that isn't real.

If you want to fight real rape and real rape culture, you need to work elsewhere and with other people.

Look, buddy, don't like? Don't read. Why don't you go and pitch this to any Saw fan ever? Where is the outrage when it comes to all the glorified torture porn in the horror genre? What about shota or lolicon? Do you get this ticked off by everything you don't like in fiction, or just rape?

The mangaka reserves the right to say whatever the hell she wants about the theme of her story (because it is fiction), even if it doesn't agree with your sensibilities. It doesn't reflect her real-life views and like it or not, this is a common fantasy. Why do you have to be a nosy punk about it? Fangirl asked for recs and the only thing you're doing here is taking up space and shaming people for their tastes.
Fangirl, try Black Sun: http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/black_sun/

I also am not ok with shota and loli(it's wrong to use them as sexual objects imo). Rape in general depending on how it's portrayed(trivialized) also ticks me off. The gore genre as it is with just guts and all isn't something that I think it's fun, but I think I can deal if it's for anatomy study purposes and not a cheap way to please the fans with torture and random chops of meats. I just sticked to rape to don't go off topic, or we would be talking about something else at this point.

What bothers me the most now(after reading some texts around about rape fantasy) is if it's not talking about yourself, or even your own experiences, it's just like you objectifying others for your own purposes and not considering the objectified group in question opinion . straight women objectifying gay men is just like straight men objectifying lesbian women. At some point it's understandable, but exploiting a problem(rape) from other group is different.
It's not like those straight women want to be trans men. Instead of "rape" fantasying about your own group of experience, it's like exploiting the "rape" problem from another group. That's the impression I get from it until now.
Is it alright for men to fantasize about them raping women? I guess that's one of my main question too.
I'm gonna give a try on Black Sun but it will take some time.

oh, also I'm a nosy person, I do go around from time to time and do nitpick on subjects around, not just here and not just about rape.

on the Black Sun subject, ugh, those are one of the story types that I have a high difficult to read... Fells like my stomach is wrenching when it's about sex slavery

*feels

It really looks like this anonymous has a borderline personality disorder. She has had no experience with actual rape or with real living rape victims, but she's read a few texts on the internet here and there (like those bastions of intellectual rigour: Huffington Post and Wikipedia), and now considers that this makes her an expert on rape culture, art and art criticism, obscenity law and censorship, feminism and I'm sure a quite a few other things as well. So now she has taken her threadbare knowledge and clad it in (pig) iron and has mounted her high horse and embarked on a specious, quasi-religious crusade to teach all us yaoi fangirls about what immoral rape apologists we all are (her words). She shows no understanding of semiotics, not even a rudimentary sign of any awareness of human psychology, and does not acknowledge that actual field case-work experience in sexual assault crisis outweighs pop-psych claptrap in any case. But her zeal to berate and shame women (and those few gay or hetero-men who join us) for enjoying rape fantasies in the form of yaoi --- where the underlying messages are almost invariably about love and nurturing conquering all --- knows no limit. She is right and the rest of us are wrong, and she will let nothing as prosaic as facts, history or ethics, stand in her way.

A blithering maniac.

maybe I could say rape in general don't sit well with me...

You are he first person to give me such a diagnose... are you some psychologist student or something?
I go to those "intellectual rigour bastions" because I think it's gives better credit and footing if you are trying to understand something. Of course they makes me no expert, but I can trust them better than someone just trowing arguments like you.
You might not have noticed, but as I started like you said in this "crusade" as you call, halfway I went trying to understand what does it means what you are trying to defend. So of course I'll make questions. To put it simply, I don't understand why.
Yeah, psychology is nowhere near my area of understanding. So go ahead and explain me why and my previous questions.

Sits well enough with you that you won't actually do anything real about it, though.

We've got your number, anonymous. Your need to feel superior outweighs any actual empathy for the victims of sexual violence.

If you met an actual rape victim, you would probably blame her for the crime based on what she wore, or drank. It's her fault, you know. She didn't follow the rules ....

well, if you are not gonna explain your point of view but keep your irony, ok

As a matter of fact, yaoi fangirls put themselves in the place of the uke. Are you really telling us that it's wrong to fantasize about two guys like that just because we're not guys? You have a problem, lady. People can fantasize about anything they want and in case you missed it the first time, none of this is even real. It doesn't harm real rape victims in any way, no more than NBC's Hannibal (yeah, the one with the prettified and glamorized tortures/murders) harms real victims. It doesn't make people think rape is okay anymore than that show makes people think that it's okay to strip someone's throat clean off and use their vocal chords as a violin.

I see nothing wrong with guys reading rape yuri and nothing wrong with girls reading rape yaoi. Of course, you're forgetting that it isn't just girls who read it. Objectification now? Is this about objectification or the immorality of rape? Who is being exploited here exactly? These are drawings, not people.

It seems to me that you cannot handle this stuff and this is why we tag. If it upsets you, I urge you not to read it. However, I draw the line at being lectured by your sanctimonious ass. Black Sun is not a happy story. If that's what you want, go read Elektel Delusion or something. It's dark stuff, yeah. As they say, if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

I know, right? I don't know why I even bother with her.

Fangirl, I just remembered, here is the rape tag: http://www.mangago.zone/tag/Rape/

It has fifty pages of stories that have rape in them, but I don't know if they meet your age gap requirement. Most of them probably satisfy the condition that they end up together though.

I was being sarcastic about bastions of intellectual rigour. I've told you before, you don't know what you're talking about and it shows. You wouldn't be here on your fool errand if you did. The web won't provide you with the education you need either. And I don't want to help because you're here to attack people. Why on earth would I point you to texts and courses of study and field work that could actually enlighten you, if you're bound and determined to use them against the readers here? Not to mention other women ...

I recognize that I was wrong and for that I'm sorry. (not just you, but everyone)

I'm thankful for your good will to lecture. I'm just gonna keep asking because there is some points that aren't clear for me. Feel free to ignore if it's a bother.
"People can fantasize about anything they want and in case you missed it the first time, none of this is even real."
But aren't stories of fiction in a domain(yeah, even Hannibal) where there is problem if the problems aren't exposed as problems? They might be drawing, fiction, not real and all, but isn't it troublesome since they represent some group? Aren't negative portrayal from outside of the oppressed groups a problem?

You are right, you don't have to

Anon would rather yell at girls on the internet than do anything to actually help the rape victims she claims to care so much about. I'm just glad loons like her don't have the power or authority to censor us or the mangakas.

The problem is that you're trying to control people's methods of creative expression. You can't dictate that this is how these people should be portrayed and this is how they shouldn't be portrayed. That is up to the artist. People are portrayed in many different ways, and this happens to be one of them that is simply not to your taste.

You're telling me right now that it's a bad thing if we don't put up some kind of I'm-not-a-rape-apologist disclaimer and say "Rape is bad. I do not condone the things that happen in this story" when it should be a given. That is just stating the obvious. In the fantasy world, we all think about things that we would never actually condone or enjoy in real life. There is no *real* danger in a fantasy, in a fiction, and that's why nobody's alarm bells are ringing. Because in their world, they are the actors, the producers, the directors, everything, and if something happens that they don't like, they can just click the x button and leave. Find something they like better. There is no real danger.