So...

Creep

Seems you're outvoted

I think the duke has put in a lot of effort into their relationship, more so than the female lead who only helped him as their deal made her.

I agree that out of nowhere he became unsure of his emotions. But he has gone through a lot too, and she was gone to be manipulative before he even finished the trial.

I think he deserves better than her. She is manipulative and selfish when concerning their relationship.

(and yes there is a possibility he could end up leaving her, but that is a two way street. She simply makes him do all of the work and show vulnerability while she safely gets to decide.)

..ahem, imo. (rant over)
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If you bother to read, prepare yourself. This is long but...... no regrets (correct me if I'm wrong though, it's actually been a long time since I last read it. Only the new chapters are fresh)

They both put in the effort, don't you remember she taught him most of everything about wooing her? What's more, he stood to gain the most. She stood to lose the most, her life and reputation. Remember he said he was going to marry her and dump her and thought she didn't know the weight of her decision because it would ruin her reputation and ruin her chances of getting married for love? He was willing to take advantage of a "seemingly" young and innocent girl so I don't really see how he is too good for her. She is sneaky, but she would never blatantly hurt an innocent bystander.

She put herself out there when she laid her feelings out. If she was really so selfish and manipulative she would have kept it hidden. She was truly hurt and disappointed. Just because she is taking the reigns in the relationship doesn't mean she can't get hurt. And fighting for love in the way you know best doesn't exactly make you anymore selfish than the next person.

Also, he already said he knew she was mischievous earlier on and even finds it attractive. So him chasing after her while knowing that sounds like a personal problem.

If he was with some timid "selfless" girl, he would have married them and never been forced to admit his feelings to himself. He would have taken her for granted because he can't get over his trauma with kid gloves.

I wouldn't say this is a woman thing, but a thing of women in such times. As a woman you were tied to your husband amd without you were worthless. Making sure that his love is sincere is necessary to survive. Their relationship didn't start out in a that would point to what it has become now, so Adele rightly wants to confirm his feelings. Even if she already thinks he loves her, confirmation is important, and it's also important that her recognizes it. Back then you couldn't just be a fling.

I must say that you have a point. However I didn't say he didn't put effort. He clearly did. But I have to agree with @fairyxgirl. Those were difficult times you can even see looking at Anne or Susan... Women who had nothing were absolutely worthless... So manipulation is sort of a second nature. Even today you can find soooo many manipulative people who are not even aware of that. I think that they are a good match. They bring out each other's best and worst characteristics. It is healthy to have a good partner who is some kind of "challenge" (otherwise it would be boring in my opinion). But I respect your opinion and won't try to change it. I just wanted to write my point of view of what you said. Thank you for sharing it with us.

Thank you.

I must say that it was an unfair truth.

(i don't think the commoner women is a good example purely because they are a commoner. For example the guy which ended up killing the maid afterwards was just as disposable, that's not a thing of gender for them. simply situation/nobility).

(if susan is the 'saint' (can't remember name for certain). Greed is greed, she was a saint and therefore given a title of power, despite not truly earning it. But due to her true self being unwilling to act like a saint mixed with greed, she ended up the villain she was. The other noble man (villain that used her) was also someone with power, but his own greed resulted in the storyline we know.)

So that's me trying to disagree with your belief that "manipulation is sort of a second nature" as if it's justified. Sure manipulation 'can' be justified, but I simply don't think it is in this situation.

While I consider the duke to be the manipulated and more caring of the two, I do still think they are a fine couple, simply because they are in love.

I don't think a challenge in a relationship is 'good', it's entertaining for an audience though.

And your opinion is also perfectly fine, we don't have to come to an agreement either. We're not needlessly insulting one another nor getting angry. Thanks for coming across as polite despite how hard that can be through text.

I've only been reading fresh chapters too :) (recently)

I'm not sure if you mean to say that the duke would hurt an innocent bystander (being the FL).
While it's true he wanted to strike a deal that could worsen her position in marriage, she still chose to agree (due to personal circumstances such as not even looking for a partner).

"fighting for love in the way you know best doesn't exactly make you anymore selfish than the next person." - just saying, it can make you more selfish than another person.

Some common ground we can probably agree on is, it's a shame the duke was not aware of his own feelings for her. Since despite being happy to marry her, he could not word it as love just yet.

But I still don't think that is reason enough to intentionally drag out his suffering/worry. Like fighting fire with fire. She got uncertainty, so he must too.
Except in his case, he genuinely never meant to hurt her, but was simply unsure. (which is fine)
Meanwhile she is well aware of her feelings and treating it almost like a mini revenge.

Overall it's fine and they will be happy, but is still wrong.

He explicitly said he thought she was a naive girl when they first met who had absolutely no prior part in his sticky situation, therefore he classified her as an innocent bystander that could be of use. It was really unethical, and some could call that selfish.

I feel like low-key everyone is selfish, I mean who better to love yourself than you? So I honestly don't care if she is being selfish as long as she isn't killing anybody or doing anything that will hurt anyone in the long run. Sometimes you have to step on a few toes to get what you want. The difference between right and wrong isn't always so simple. People usually decide right and wrong by what would by standards most convenient in their own world and frame of reference. I don't think I can follow her lead because I would feel bad for tricking people, but it doesn't mean she's wrong. I think she is just willful. Actually! Almost all the things she said to onlookers were true, she just exaggerated it for theatrics.

All in all, I don't hate either of them. They're both funny, I like their faults because they both seem to have grown through it all, and still are growing. I just felt that they both could be considered selfish so it was weird you seem to single her out and keep the guy on a pedestal.

Haha, I guess I'm too easygoing. If the game is played well, I am often shook and like "dang, that was low" but I give props to the perpetrator for the dedication to execute. It takes work and talent to be slick. And boy is she playing him like a fiddle, though I am sure he will catch on if she keeps it up too long. It looked like he called her out in the

Thanks for being civil, I didn't expect such a detailed debate.

I would like to clarify the first person to suggest the deal was not actually the duke, but the crown prince.
Furthermore you suggest that the duke was unethical and selfish. (once again, the prince suggested she could be of use).
And not only did the duke make it clear that she would marry him as part of the deal, but the FL herself stated that it was a good deal for her since she was a lower family title, and she "get('s) to be a trophy wife with unexpectedly nice conditions".
she also says "Then may I assume this proposal is a win-win for all".

TL;DR he was not being cruel with the deal, it was mutually beneficial, from the FL's it was actually better for her.

exaggeration is not exempt from manipulation either. I'm not saying she is 'wrong'. Simply manipulative, and in my opinion a bit excessive. That and i disagree with the notion that a partner must be trained. mind games is not everyone's cup of tea, and can also cause problems and trust issues.

It probably comes across as i'm putting the Duke on a pedestal simply because i think his wrongs (if any) << something we disagree on.
are less than hers.
And i would argue that after referring to the duke as selfish, you then dismissively accept the FL's selfish trait as fine.. (maybe we can agree to disagree that we might both be putting one of them on a pedestal)

We also view things differently (which is fine). You (to me) appear to have some sense of admiration or possibility to be impressed by someone who 'plays well'. Meanwhile i would simply look at the one who 'played' with disappointment.

(The parts i'm referring to are chapter 9-11 (roughly))