It definitely makes me a bigger fan of the work! thank u
Hello , thank you for your reply. Have you read the novel? So in the novel Glenn also says he wants to continue after Ryan's accusations and Ryan saying to ed that dating a porn guy is stupidity? I'm pretty sure someone spoiled the novel that both Glenn and Ed stopped porn after couple's shoot. That is why In the webtoon I couldn't understand why he says he wants to continue and demands Ed's approval. It wasn't like the novel. I always thought that by continuing he meant continuing his business= directing a company.(since he was never seen or sown interested in porn performing himself)He was provoked by Ryan who said he is just a rapist with camera and dating porn guys who are never serious is stupid. I thought he only said "continue " in order to test Ed's tolerance and acceptance for him.
I understand that their relationship is not really the greatest relationship ever. They never communicate properly especially Ed. They never talked about porn business problems, their insecurities, their boundaries, their past.....it was just sex sex sex
Glenn was never a hero for me just a gay guy who had a sad past and the fact that he said Ed's confession was LIKE DEATH SENTENCE TO HIS OLD SELF WAS SO ROMANTIC..so he was a normal human being until SPOLIER
that issue regarding porn movie about real life rapist real life victims...you never mentioned that I'm even struggling to continue reading this manhwa because of the immoral flaw of that porn movie and Glenn
I wish the author includes Glenn's perspective more cause I soo want to digest what he did in that disgusting disrespectful porno.
I mentioned it as "the film" sorry if I wasnt clear enough I find it gross shivers and I didnt want to repeat it. I agree that it's like how you describe and really disconcerting.
I had a feeling he was a huge sleazeball and he turned out to be in a big way. I agree with you that it's a big deal breaker and I'm not sure how Ed went back after that considering everything else.
However they're in love and Ed sees something...
I agree he's just a sad and somewhat toxic but powerful gay guy. A lot of people really defend him as a great partner though.
I think that's weird that the webtoon and the book seem to have that discrepancy between glen shooting porn -- I still think it doesn't make sense how Ed could change him, I'm sure plenty of people fell for him, I don't understand what's so compelling... idk there's a lot.
Girl gay escorting pays a lot if you're good at manipulating and do whatever you need. Glen definitely has that aspect of him because he's ruthless about sex. And let's be real, escorting is actually just prostitution.
I think before chapter 53, Chang goes into the details of Lancer's business model to discourage Ed from continuing. He also draws the connection between that model and his work. I think they pay a certain fee to run their business in certain territories.
Anyway, I do think Chang loved and cared for Ed a lot, I just think that not all people are able to express love well and in healthy ways. And I think Ed loved Chang too (as family and maybe even more) and that's why the narrative continues for as long as it does. Everyone around him questions him and Chang and Ed almost always deflects without explaining.
That said, TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOUR COMMENT!!!!!
Really feel like the only reason Glen treats Ed a little differently is Ed's MC power. And even that doesn't come without being destroyed in a big way.
I think its confirmed Ed has to pay to work and I think it's like his booking fee is 5k a night but he gets 1.5k and I think Chang is like baby I'll pay for u just be with me and I'll write the debt off and Ed is like NUUUUU ID RATHER SELL MYSELF THAN BE WITH U
Ok I'm paraphrasing but I think that's what the details are.
And I think it would be popular but those sites can't rely on adsense and they have to make transactions and sell so I wonder what the business model is truly like. I agree with you that I don't think such a company/business model would be as lucrative as it is without the elite escorting bent attached. It's not something you put on YouTube and then make ad revenue and speaking deals on ahahahahahaha....
Why do you think a porn company like McQueen is hard to run these days? We have so mannny porn companies
Okay wait a second...I need to catch my breath.....are you telling me that Glenn's making the suffering of raped people the subject of jerking for others is going to be left unexplained unexplored and Ed is going to forget that easily? One of the reasons Ed broke up with him was that....I can't believe it ...and knowing what he did I can't believe so many people has a crush over McQueen's relationship saying:" oh so romantic oh so sexy I just crave the hotness "
About Glenn wanting to continue porn so I was right ...in the novel both actually stopped doing porn. I don't know why in the webtoon he said to Ed he wants continuation and demanded approval from him...
I think he demanded approval for his continuation of porn from ed cause he wanted to see how far will ed go for him after Ryan's provocation.and I think he meant continuing porn business directing not performing....What do you think ????
I think author would benefit from including perspective of McQueen in his webtoon ...about his porn motivation, his past, his Fucking real rapist porno,his feelings for Ed,etc.
Sorry I still don't get it ...many porn sites demand signing up and paying a monthly membership...by this they can access full videos ( don't judge me how I know this I'm not a porn addict :D) so are you saying these sites demanding membership are not really successful? I always thought they are rich and doing well by making people's bodies a commodity
Even with subscription models a lot of media companies arent able to make a big profit when considering the cost of doing business, insurances required, and the like. A lot of the margins on these businesses sound huge to the average person but are not that big when you consider all of the cost, the risk, and sometimes (just sometimes) also the cost of cleaning money and keeping lawsuits silent.
Sorry getting super business-y here.
Also when individual content creators are able to stream on platforms they create a competition similar to idols vs traditional entertainment. It's complex, but the idea that just based on what we see of Glen's operation that he's able to afford real estate in Manhattan (and large real estate at that) indicates that he's either good at investing and reinvesting or that the company is unrealistic. Also I think the company only sells for 500k or around there which is chump change...
Yes I understand they both stop shooting after a little while. In the novel there is no big I love you scene in the way they had it in the webtoon. So they get together and continue to shoot and eventually stop off and take less active roles. Ed himself stops because it doesn't sit well with him, which is why the escorting arc is more heart breaking. What he did when he was filming comes back to haunt him in the worst way.
And yes, from what I understand that never truly gets dealt with in the conscientious and thoughtful way it would need to be to see these two realistically move forward, however there is a resolution in their relationship and so I am looking forward to seeing the details myself (without someone else's bias applied)
If the webtoon version was serious about Glenn's continuation of porn then there are numerous clashing facts that confuses and disheartens fans: he was never shown engaged in porn in a non-business manner, he was never seen performing in it after Ed's entrance to the scene, he is rich now, he is not desperate for sex so that he could get it only by performing porn, besides porn sex is not a comfortable mind blowing enjoyable sex for the parties involved ...it is a fantasy a commodity created that way solely for the audiences>> This is why I didn't get the character of luke the real estate owner who had a good paying job but auditioned for porn sometimes...people said he auditioned for porn cause of good sex but porn sex is not comfortable enjoyable sex most of the time ...if he wanted sex he could have achieved it in a better, comfortable manner ...that is unless he has a kink for porn performers or sex in front of camera.
I seriously wholeheartedly hope that the author plans some kind of resolution for that rape porno ...I don't know why but I experienced sexual harassment continuously myself in my super religious conservative country as a transgender, so the concept of rape maybe more appalling for me but it strikes me as funny in a preposterous manner that most fans just disregard the weigh of what Glenn did in that porn movie...just because Glenn McQueen is drawn hot and sexy he can escape the soundness of judgement of fans
Ah! I think what you're missing here is that Glen has a perverse poem kink. It fills him up emotionally or psychically -- he IS getting something out of it, as is that real estate agent and the question remains what, but that's up to the readers to observe and get a feel for what kind of character he is.
The porn for Glen is clearly not about sex but rather some sort of psychological benefit. Idk if he feels like the big man, or if he likes to draw the lewdness out of people because of his own traumas, or because he truly takes pleasure in weirdly hurting other gay men IDK
But he's def not apologetic
Could you please do me a favour and mention me when in which chapter Glenn gets turned on by Ed's narration??? I'm gonna slit my wrist because of how dangerous Glenn McQueen character has suddenly become.
Excellent thought...if it would have been our real world the media would have gone crazzzy over it ...so if the webtoon just disregards that part of him then it's going to be so unrealistic
Definitely agree with you and as you can imagine the situation isn't very empowering for sexual minorities in unsafe environments or vulnerable positions, its similar (though a little better) for Ed who is in debt and Ryan who is psychologically and emotionally hurting etc.
I think people don't necessarily have a lot experience with different types of exploitation so it's easy for them to see Chang's concrete exploitation in terms of loan sharking and rape and see that as worse than the psychological harm and manipulation carried out by Glen.
I've experienced both sorts of versions in different ways and for me personally, the psychological harm is worse.
Another reason why I think the author would benefit from including more Glenn's perspective
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
That whole thing is so DISGUSTING HELP ME
Wait ...something is weird...I'm sure the porn movie was a porn not a documentary...even if it's a documentary when it comes under the title porn , it is ko longer has the exploring nature and seriousness of documentary...porn is made to arouse to sell sex and fantasy ....if Glenn wanted to explore the nature of a rapist he could have made a non-streaming documentary about rapists like the ones which has been made on rapist Jeffery Dahmer...but porn is not serious its purpose is to arouse ...janine said that this porn movie won with Ryan and Glenn as the rapist himself won several Av awards like best cumshot and etc. So I don't think Glenn McQueen made that movie in order to conduct a cinematic study or give perspective to a rapist.
I wasn't going to do this but the tea is hot and I feel like these things need to be said.
The key themes of this webtoon are not good vs evil, rapist vs lover, or any such thing. It explores the grey area that exists in the underbelly of humanity by presenting us three imperfect characters; yes, Ed is included.
To start with, the initial setting is New York's chinatown. With any amount of cultural context, most people can deduce the living conditions in what Chang himself refers to as the projects. Children are left parentless as guardians work as many hours in the day to eck out a living for their families. There is no one to care for the young and/or the old, and there is a lot of exploitation directed at immigrant communities. If you're not aware, you can look up things like the chinese exclusion act, and specifically also, about asian immigrants and laundries (because Ed's uncle/grandpa had one that Chang seizes... lol).
This context is important because it helps to contextualize where Ed and Chang (and Youyu) grow up. The only way to leave poverty is by doing illegal things. There is no American dream of working hard and ascending social classes. Chang can't, for instance, just go to college and become a regular worker. There's no money for that, there's no credit for loans (think, he has no family and is supporting his grand mother from the time he is in high school, that credit is SHOT).
Ed also grows up in these conditions and finds a little bit of warmth in Chang's grandmother and his relationship with Chang. Something he himself remembers fondly as he narrates the story.
Now, to bring us to the conflict, we have to be aware of the fact that aside from Chang's predatory debt practices, there is a primary predatory system which makes loansharking and predatory behavior at the behest of loansharks legal – namely a complex legal and banking system which is rigged on behalf of the lenders. This is not just harmful to Ed, it creates things like the school to prison pipeline, lack of infrastructure and small businesses in immigrant communities, etcetc.
The work is VERY aware of these things at least considering how well researched some of these plot points and narrative points are.
Anyway, so Ed, with precious little choice, turns to filming in porn. The thing that seems to be in contention between readers here is whether choosing to act in porn is the equivalent of being trafficked and when pressure applied to actors who enter the world becomes predatory. In Ed's case, he rejects Jeanine multiple times and she also mentions that it's the usual flow of things for an actor to appear in a few masturbation shoots and to then do a full blown porno.
We suspect that Ed is not comfortable with this, but we don't know how he truly feels about it until we see Ryan as a foil to Ed. He's in a shit position because he has to take care of his child, has been betrayed by Glen, and at the very least, has the common decency to warn Ed.
Within Ed and Glen's relationship, we sort of see a laidback and blurred out version of a relationship. Ed never tells Glen the truth about what is bothering him. He never knows what to say to Glen when he is upset, and he never knows exactly what sets Glen off. Often times, Ed is walking on eggshells trying to figure out what exactly makes Glen tick. The only things we learn about Glen are how he feels about the film he made and the character within that film.
Glen never learns about where Ed comes from, why he's doing porn, or what his circumstances are. Even when Ed needs to move apartments, Glen isn't able to step in like a partner. He doesn't stop doing porn.
Overall, he's distant, and it's not that the writer isn't capable of showing us the inside of a character's mind. We're just not afforded that for Glen aside from like one chapter that we kind of see from his perspective.
Ed's big blow out with Glen sort of is about how Glen's behavior is predatory. Ed recognizes that and Ed also tells Glen that what Glen did to Ryan and to Ed is something Ed considers to be akin to rape.
So overall, we have two different types of subjugation occurring at the hands of Chang and Glen. One is monetary control, and the other is sexual dominance and control.
The work is not asking the reader to pick one and say "this one is better!" it just is the way it is. By the end of this work, the dynamic flips. Chang rapes Ed and Glen pays off his debt. I know everyone sees Glen paying off the debt as a positive thing, but when you consider how Ed reacted to the $50,000 in his bank account, it's not difficult to imagine the imbalance of power and the feeling of "owing" this can/will create in the relationship.
Anyway, so I used some flippant phrasing last time I posted on here because I didn't wanna go full serious mode, but here I am regardless.
At the end of the day, the work is more about how a system of racism and poverty creates violence and subjugation; and the little, imperfect, but human ways people have to find to move beyond those circumstances.
And for the people who are upset at the physical and sexual violence between Chang and Ed and the sexual violence and manipulation between Ed and Glen (the Lancer video scene (yes, even though he stops it, he also created the scenario), the jealous of Chang after the play scene) etc... um back to my sentence –– this is literally a webtoon about morally ambiguous characters, you're going to witness some bad things.
And finally if you got this far, thanks for reading.
I just want to say that the Chang and Ed graveyard scene is shot in the rain with Chang's hair down because he is totally crying. (literary tropes 101, man in rain ;))
Just remember if you grew up without a family while being blamed about your family's death by your only living relative while also having to support and being dirt poor you might turn out kind of fucked up too. Especially if the one person you love almost dies and you come face to face with loss for the millionth time. He's not right, but he is human.
Alright hope that explains a bit. toodaloooooo~~