Based on your analysis don't you think that it's more so prey vs predator? The three main characters are all in a prey vs predator revolving triangle
Damn I like that, it's good insight and it applies not just to the characters but to the larger systems I was referring to too. I also sometimes thing of subjugator and subjugated. I think with that framework, it's a lot easier to understand Glen's character too because he's often the predator, but in a sterilized way so it almost slips past you.
Thank you <3 I read some of your comments on various threads and I tend to agree with your thoughts as well!
The being denied loans thing is mentioned in the webtoon narration as well at some point. And lol I started reading the novel translations but I really can't stand some of the random details in the novel (like Jeannine introducing herself as a fag hag, I almost choked).
You described it so well. Eeek *shivers* *vomit emoji*. And I heard that the webtoon actually tones down how much acting Glen does and that in the novel it's quite a bit more.
Glenn is not just a director in the novels? But someone spoiled that after his relationship with Ed, at some point after the couple's porn,they both stop doing porn.
I thought in the novel after their couple's porn they both stop porn all together
I don't think Glenn's character is a manipulative predator and totally dark character....
His father was a priest, so Glenn is a typical gay boy-in-catholic-family case. He suffered from guilt and homophobia at the hands of his father and theology teacher...he also said to ed that whenever he see a chaste person he wants to see them in lewd acts in order to break that chastity..he said that he wanted to see his theology teacher's face after he got in porn ...so all of this explains how he was forced to compress and hide and deprive himself out of his sexuality and his real self by the very people who claimed they were men of god ....eventually he explodes and rebels in an exaggerated way such as porn ....I really wanted to know more about Glenn's/cleed past , his intentions motivations for becoming who he is today, and why choose porn when he could become a screenwriter.
My question is that why do you say that he made a scenario of lancer Ed porn? Lancer had a reputation for being rough and a douchbag...and and Glenn stopped him ...there was no rough play scenario in the webtoon
I have another question...I was so eager to see cleed/glenn yeowoon/ed relationship because after their couple's porn they both stopped porn , they had a nice chemistry and I had no problem shipping them UNTILLLL spoiler alert
Ed saw the porn movie which Glenn made a porn movie about real fucking rapist and his real life rape victims...this was a hugee moral flaw, absolutely insane, outrageous...what would the survivors of that rapist think if they ever saw that their pain and suffering was turned into a source of fapping and pleasure in the shape of porn ...even Ed felt it was unfair. I don't care about Ryan's accusations cause I don't trust his reliability but that kind of porn movie is tooo serious for me ...it sank my Glenn Ed ship immediately.
In this new 47 chapter Glenn said he hates lies deception and hidden things so I'm hoping hee explains himself about why he ever made such porno out of such serious subject...
Jesus it's like making porn out of ISIS terrorist victims or out of serial killer's victims such as Jeffery Dahmer's victims.
@naru I would wholeheartedly appreciate it if you answer or share your understanding about my questions and views
You also said that it's not like the writer is not capable of showing inside the character's mind but we are not afforded...but up until now I think the writer focused too much on smuty scenes in order to grab the attention of more viewers that he forgot the balance of their relationship....there's absolutely no communication between cleed and yeowoon ..there's just sex sex sex sex I know they are i the honeymoon phase but I think the writer sacrificed the realistic relationship between cleed yeowoon for smutty sex scenes between them.
Great analysis my guy, I enjoyed reading it, it was thoughtful and insightful and I really liked this take on the story, it has alot of deep meaning and component of exploitation is very real
A person who had read the novel in the comments section months ago said that both Glenn and Ed stopped being in porn as pornstars after the couple's shoot.
Yes I remember that religious movie its name was walk on water but what are you trying to say here I don't get the relationship between what you said and what I said about Glenn being a repressed gay character
Hi! Sorry I guess a lot happened while I was happily sleeping.
First, the couple both stop doing porn a little bit later on, however Glen does say that he has to continue without giving a reason why and Ed agrees to it without taking a good reason.
The damage of being on the seedy side is done.
I'm glad you went through and described Glen's motivation in wanting to see a "pure" person do lewd things because it is an example of how he exploits people based on his own experiences. It's not really a great thing I feel.
With that said, I do understand where he comes from I'm terms of homophobia but also yeah yikes at the film.
I'm not saying Glen is a totally dark character, I'm saying they're all imperfect characters and Glen is not the hero people are making him out to be.
As for the Lancer scene, I was already saying that what Glen did to push and pressure Ed was akin to trafficking. Putting him in a scene with an actor who is known to act rough is an example of seedy behavior. Also, him putting a stop to that scene had to do with his personal motivations and jealousy, we understand he wouldn't have done so if it was just any other actor.
Anyway, I don't know if the author sacrificed their intimacy for sex scenes because there are a bunch of scenes that could have sparked intimacy but ultimately don't. He asks to call ed Yeowoon in bed but we don't get any more than that on that front. And of course the fact that Ed always lies to him. The way that he never tries to understand why Ed no longer wants to be an actor... etc.
Thank you ToastybooksandTea (づ￣ ³￣)づ I couldn't take the angry takes in the comment section anymore. This is a thoughtful work imo.
I like your comment, thanks
I like YOUUU thanks
love ur analysis! i like you pointed out that instead of picking one person over the other, this webtoon deals with more or less morally grey characters where no one is right or wrong much like how real life works. the author really did do their research very well on this because while reading i could really appreciate how raw it felt with the scenarios, especially relating to chinatown and the whole debt collecting business as well as the characters internal conflicts. i really did love ur analysis it put a lot of things into perspective for me too especially about the power dynamics ed’s facing with both chang and glenn in addition to his own internal struggle about his sexuality. your comment was really refreshing to read thank u!
What a wonderful analysis! Not choosing a side to support makes this easier to comprehend and makes me change quite a bit of my opinions about some of the characters. This is indeed a complex gray area.
Thank you!! And I definitely felt that research because it was soo relatable. I've also experienced being an immigrant in this country and that shit just hits different yakno? I'm glad my thoughts resonated with you!
I wasn't going to do this but the tea is hot and I feel like these things need to be said.
The key themes of this webtoon are not good vs evil, rapist vs lover, or any such thing. It explores the grey area that exists in the underbelly of humanity by presenting us three imperfect characters; yes, Ed is included.
To start with, the initial setting is New York's chinatown. With any amount of cultural context, most people can deduce the living conditions in what Chang himself refers to as the projects. Children are left parentless as guardians work as many hours in the day to eck out a living for their families. There is no one to care for the young and/or the old, and there is a lot of exploitation directed at immigrant communities. If you're not aware, you can look up things like the chinese exclusion act, and specifically also, about asian immigrants and laundries (because Ed's uncle/grandpa had one that Chang seizes... lol).
This context is important because it helps to contextualize where Ed and Chang (and Youyu) grow up. The only way to leave poverty is by doing illegal things. There is no American dream of working hard and ascending social classes. Chang can't, for instance, just go to college and become a regular worker. There's no money for that, there's no credit for loans (think, he has no family and is supporting his grand mother from the time he is in high school, that credit is SHOT).
Ed also grows up in these conditions and finds a little bit of warmth in Chang's grandmother and his relationship with Chang. Something he himself remembers fondly as he narrates the story.
Now, to bring us to the conflict, we have to be aware of the fact that aside from Chang's predatory debt practices, there is a primary predatory system which makes loansharking and predatory behavior at the behest of loansharks legal – namely a complex legal and banking system which is rigged on behalf of the lenders. This is not just harmful to Ed, it creates things like the school to prison pipeline, lack of infrastructure and small businesses in immigrant communities, etcetc.
The work is VERY aware of these things at least considering how well researched some of these plot points and narrative points are.
Anyway, so Ed, with precious little choice, turns to filming in porn. The thing that seems to be in contention between readers here is whether choosing to act in porn is the equivalent of being trafficked and when pressure applied to actors who enter the world becomes predatory. In Ed's case, he rejects Jeanine multiple times and she also mentions that it's the usual flow of things for an actor to appear in a few masturbation shoots and to then do a full blown porno.
We suspect that Ed is not comfortable with this, but we don't know how he truly feels about it until we see Ryan as a foil to Ed. He's in a shit position because he has to take care of his child, has been betrayed by Glen, and at the very least, has the common decency to warn Ed.
Within Ed and Glen's relationship, we sort of see a laidback and blurred out version of a relationship. Ed never tells Glen the truth about what is bothering him. He never knows what to say to Glen when he is upset, and he never knows exactly what sets Glen off. Often times, Ed is walking on eggshells trying to figure out what exactly makes Glen tick. The only things we learn about Glen are how he feels about the film he made and the character within that film.
Glen never learns about where Ed comes from, why he's doing porn, or what his circumstances are. Even when Ed needs to move apartments, Glen isn't able to step in like a partner. He doesn't stop doing porn.
Overall, he's distant, and it's not that the writer isn't capable of showing us the inside of a character's mind. We're just not afforded that for Glen aside from like one chapter that we kind of see from his perspective.
Ed's big blow out with Glen sort of is about how Glen's behavior is predatory. Ed recognizes that and Ed also tells Glen that what Glen did to Ryan and to Ed is something Ed considers to be akin to rape.
So overall, we have two different types of subjugation occurring at the hands of Chang and Glen. One is monetary control, and the other is sexual dominance and control.
The work is not asking the reader to pick one and say "this one is better!" it just is the way it is. By the end of this work, the dynamic flips. Chang rapes Ed and Glen pays off his debt. I know everyone sees Glen paying off the debt as a positive thing, but when you consider how Ed reacted to the $50,000 in his bank account, it's not difficult to imagine the imbalance of power and the feeling of "owing" this can/will create in the relationship.
Anyway, so I used some flippant phrasing last time I posted on here because I didn't wanna go full serious mode, but here I am regardless.
At the end of the day, the work is more about how a system of racism and poverty creates violence and subjugation; and the little, imperfect, but human ways people have to find to move beyond those circumstances.
And for the people who are upset at the physical and sexual violence between Chang and Ed and the sexual violence and manipulation between Ed and Glen (the Lancer video scene (yes, even though he stops it, he also created the scenario), the jealous of Chang after the play scene) etc... um back to my sentence –– this is literally a webtoon about morally ambiguous characters, you're going to witness some bad things.
And finally if you got this far, thanks for reading.
I just want to say that the Chang and Ed graveyard scene is shot in the rain with Chang's hair down because he is totally crying. (literary tropes 101, man in rain ;))
Just remember if you grew up without a family while being blamed about your family's death by your only living relative while also having to support and being dirt poor you might turn out kind of fucked up too. Especially if the one person you love almost dies and you come face to face with loss for the millionth time. He's not right, but he is human.
Alright hope that explains a bit. toodaloooooo~~