Lol.. Finally someone says it... Since I started with this one I have been wondering why it doesnt, considering that all Yoon did is plan and plot to get Nakyum in the palm of his hand.. He made it so that the situations are all so Nakyum gives consent, even if its grudingly or under influence.. Even during that forced bj, Nakyum was given the right to choose knowing full well what he'll be choosing..
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Damn, I hadn't really thought to give Yoon master manipulator status like that. I just thought he was fumbling around trying to recreate Nakyum's first time for his own egoism. Nakyum was beautiful, sensual, sensitive, loving, innocent yet so into it...I can understand why Yoon wants that as himself (not a drunken halucination of Inhun) but he is being a complete as$ and probably making Nakyum hate him more.
Haha.. yes.. bc no1 likes to be manipulated into doing something they dont like.. Yoon, as he is now, is incapable of patiently wooing Nakyum though.. its gonna take time for they have to make up for their own short-comings before getting into a proper relationship.. like Nakyum has to see what a scum Inhun is to use him as a stepping stone to further his career.. and Yoon needs to do a real long self-reflection session/s..
and it baffles me how 14 year old could flick their beans to it
Yes, I'm agree with the Psychological tag too, moreover this one is at least credible.
There is a game of manipulation here, litterally everyone is manipulate everyone.
It's rape from the beginning because he knows the man he "loves" will die I'd he says no. If you need to blackmail someone into sex then its rape. Its sad, I wonder how this will end. Neither guy really cares about him.
I don't see much drama in the manhwa.
Same ╮(￣▽￣)╭
The plot is pretty straightforward without too many characters or twists. If Yoon’s parents get introduced or if Nakyums past is revealed, that would be really interesting.
I agree about the straightforward plot...it is the characters and character interactions that are complex--that is what this post was about. Still, I'm wondering if Jiwa will be back to spice things up...
"Is this really a rape ?" I'm only one shocked by this ? Na-Kyum NEVER give his consent. I'm angry with you, but denounce rape is not synonym of "your work is just that". There are rape. Why people wants to avoid this fact ? THAT'S the problem. The rape is PRESENT, violent, and this is important in the story. But stop to try to excuse or almost use euphemism. It's that's problem that I denounce because people don't want see a rape and excuse all Yoon's acts. The problem is not the mahwa but the readers who just see in yoon a hot seme or a seme with tragic past etc.. and for them rape is just a "detail" THAT'S NOT A DETAIL it's this story, Yoon represent perversity and also sort of alegory of Satan, it's normal that his character is so violent but ignore that it's a vilain, who is psychopath and rape (so He do something Not only wrong it's not a mistakes he is CONSCIOUS of this cruelty HE KNOWS that he hurted Na-Kyum but think that sex will resolve anything.) We can understand his acts but NOT excuse that and telling just "NK gave his consent" is just a message to me "Rape is not important, we don't really care" Probably it's not your opinion, but when I see a message like this it's just my feeling and you're not alone in this case.
It seems like you wanted to vent after reading the subject line and that is cool and all, but chill and please read the actual comment under the subject line...
When we think of rape, we think two things have to happen--either penetration or other sexual acts AND lack of consent. This author took a creative turn on this idea. Aside from the two instances I mentioned above, Nakyum gave his consent to Yoon so there was no rape because both parts of the rape equation aren't there...technically..The real question becomes ' what is consent, really?'
Is it still 'consent' if you were manipulated or blackmailed into it? Why/why not?I
Is it still 'consent' if you were manipulated or blackmailed into it AND YOU KNEW YOU were being manipulated/blackmailed into it. Why/why not?
On a personal note, I tend to avoid yaoi with rape that is completely irrelevant to the plot and only added to complete an overused, cliched trope because that is not my kink. No where do you see me saying the sex was hot or Yoon is a daddy af rapist woohoo! No fam, I'm impressed with this artist because the twist she put on the concept of consent made me stop and think. That's it. I appreciate debates with logic and insight with examples from the comic even, but there is no need to get all up in our feelings over a work of fiction or invoke the mythical Satan.
Didn't hear of coercion, did you?
Instead of asking this question, I would recommend reading something educational on the matter.
By law, if you are unconscious or under drugs/ alcohol effect you cannot give consent. If you are blackmailed this is not consent, if you are manipulated you cannot know it by definition so it's not consent. Plasepleaseplease you can enjoy everything about this story, but please don't try to question that there was no consensual sex
Consent is not a sort of thing which is something we must doubt when you have :
Yoon completely conscious, he doesn't have alcohol that disorders his mind. In the contrary, we have a completely drunk NK who doesn't have the real vision, clear and sharp ! He is half passed out, carried away by a condition between dream and reality. This is NOT a position where you can discutes about a consent or not. It's like when you are drugged by LCD, you can't say that If you get penetrated, you were consening while you were clearly not in your normal state. so why ? Because one person can't have a proper reflexion, NK couldn't have his rationality, he was drunk. And we have there Yoon who is clearly superior in this situation because he wasn't drunk, so he knew what he did ! He knew that NK wasn't in his right mind because he see the bottle, understand his mistake and give him a medecine, in some ways he could choose what he will do with NK and he profited of the situation to abuse him, he profited of his condition knowing that he could clearly stop this, he was responsible, so this is rape, because he didn't get a real consent (he didn't even ask him) and more than that : he knew. He just profit of his superiority (superiority because he was conscious).
How you can compare blackmail with drunk position ? It's totally different. I know I repeat myself but ... Drunk is a position ... In which YOU CAN'T give a sort of consent, it's totally absurd to talk about consent, yes or not, when you see a drunk people even it seduces you DON'T TOUCH HIM. Help him to find his friends or anything, but don't fuck him. God... It's just fondamental, this is why it:s piss me off, you are clearly questioning consent when a person is drunk. In the case where both people are drunk, ok you can doubt but in this situation it was ONLY NK who is drunk.
I think you didn't understand what this manhwa talk
about ! It's not the problem of consent, because author shows us CLEARLY the no-consent of NK. It's her goal because the dichotomy is to oppose a innocence, someone pure, nice... with violence, perversity etc... It's RAPE because the main subject it's a sort of play with moral between evil and good. I think you didn't properly read my opinion, I talked about Satan for Yoon because it's a symbolism, allegory is a metaphor. Because Yoon represent lust and blood in some ways, he rapes, hit people, hurt them he is physically and mentally violence in his words and his manners. Obviously NK is not consent but what we can underline is a sort of innocence soiled by evil, and this is the real subject for this mahwa a confrontation between evil and the naivety. And I would say : We have a sort of tentation, because it's what represent Yoon and he knows that nonetheless NK is in love and innocent so he is more disgusted by Yoon and forced by him but he stays human, yes he cums when he is raped but it's only sexual, it's a biological reaction. I'm sorry but Yoon when NK refuses his advances he sincerely regretted ! Yoon literally make him bleed ! It's extremely violent, he is ready to hit, and use physical violence in the purest form to obtain what he wants ! He threatened NK to kill his love and just ... Watch his reaction when he is jealous or see NK with his teacher.
I don't understand the end of your comment about mythical or anything... Because I just talk about Satan to a symbolical read. Just that.
My question stems from the manga which is in what the Joseon period so I cannot confirm your whole 'by law' statement but remember Nakyum initiated sex with Yoon when he was drunk. Also, yeah in today's society, if you sign a contract, for example..it is considered void if was determined you signed it under duress/blackmail/manipulation. Though Yoon may have manipulated the situation to force consent as another commenter suggested above, Nakyum was the one who made the choice to say 'yes' he could have said 'no' and waited to see if Inhun could protect himself but he chose to accept the situation as it is and give consent. Yeah, it feels like I threw up a little in my mouth saying it but that is in the story before us
If the discussion is too deep feel free to not particpate
It's still coercion. OMFG
Initiated kiss. Not sex. But still he was in state where he couldn't have given valid consent and the other part knew about that.
And you know in Joseon era he probably could have killed him by law then. Probably it wouldn't be called even a murder then.Does it change Nakyum's pain. Or anything?
By our standards it was rape every time.
Lmfao and these were laws in joseon period:
"When we think of rape, we think two things have to happen--either penetration or other sexual acts AND lack of consent. This author took a creative turn on this idea. Aside from the two instances I mentioned above, Nakyum gave his consent to Yoon so there was no rape because both parts of the rape equation aren't there...technically"?
I can't it's laughable. What are we even discussing? Once you talk about our standards. Then about their laws. When someone pointed that it's rape, you suddenly bring up period card.
Lmfao and these were laws in joseon period:
"When we think of rape, we think two things have to happen--either penetration or other sexual acts AND lack of consent. This author took a creative turn on this idea. Aside from the two instances I mentioned above, Nakyum gave his consent to Yoon so there was no rape because both parts of the rape equation aren't there...technically"?
I can't it's laughable. What are we even discussing? Once you talk about our standards. Then about their laws. When someone pointed that it's rape, you suddenly bring up period card.
Hold on..hear me out. Nakyum clearly didn't want to have sex with Yoon bc he loves Inhun, yeah...BUT he clearly told Yoon 'I will do all that you have asked' to divert Yoon's bloodlust off Inhun..Nakyum knew that meant sex and that he'd have to paint it. It is so much more tragic than a simple fictional yaoi rape. This author is really pushing the envelope with that yaoi trope. When Nakyum lost his virginity to Yoon, he gave his consent--Yoon was wrong to take advantage of Nakyum being so drunk he thought he was doing the deed with Inhun, again that is so much more complicated than rape or consensual sex. The only unarguably rape moments imho were the chapter before the bath scene--Yoon stopped when he saw Baek was not getting hard and the forced bj Nakyum performed to keep Yoon from killing Inhun for the evulz. This story needs a psychological tag and I need an aspirin and a fluffy manga break.