There is a difference between willing to help and being able to.
Saegye actually tried to help in his own way. He thought about helping Han as the first thing and then he checked if it was sensible and possible. Even a person more powerful than him, the criminal's brother, is powerless against the top, how could he be able to do anything?
He was burdened with a problem way bigger than an high schooler could handle, and Han probably knows too.
About the Holocaust, both the persecuted and the ones forced to persecute or witness are victims for me. About the second ones, as long as they did not do it willingly and did not find any pleasure in doing it, I don't see them as anything more than victims. It's useless and stupid to become martyrs and not change anything. I don't think it's wrong to value one's life and the loved one's as priority. We're humans, we have to make a choice sometimes.
And thinking about it, isn't Saegye position actually the one to pity.
If he does something to save one person, a close one, he could destroy the lives of so many more people. Would you be willing to send to death or to live as an outcast not only yourself but also a thousand people just to save one?
If I were to witness someone make the same choice as Saegye I wouldn't blame him. The one to blame is the system, not the person, no?
I think so, too. The fact that Saegye got into this kind of situation is atutomatically a lose for him, no matter what he does, no matter who he decides to save, he'll hurt many other people or even himself. It actually demonstrates real-life situations you can really sympathize with, because those things happen and we need to make a choice. That's why this manhwa is so thought-provoking and at the same time there's a level of difficulty to read it, since his situation reminds me of mine somehow, so it's kind of an anxiety trigger (not on topic but I think many people can agree). It really is the system to blame because, in this story, I can't seem to find "the bad one" (at least for now, but my guess is no one will be fully "bad" or "good", because, at the end, that's how people MOSTLY work.
As for the Holocaust case, you said it very well and I don't think I have anything to add.
You missed the point since you sort of went in a circle... I'm pointing out that some people may have one answer for a certain situation but when another similar situation comes by, they have a different answer. Not that the right answer is that Saegye is a bad person. You can read from the start again where I said that there's no easy answer.
Essentially, apologies if it comes off as offensive and it's not my meaning, but it's not about your personal opinion. If you're consistent in how you feel about the two situations, then that's good for you. But that's not the point here, no? It's that we may feel one way about a situation but feel another way about a similar situation.
E.g. Korea's current huge controversy. We may have a kneejerk reaction when we hear about staff and friends who keep quiet about the higher-ups who r*ped women, saying that they're horrifying cowards even though they may have kept quiet to protect their families, but they sympathise with Saegye here.
I'm not sure if you missed the point, but well, just in case, read this reply to the other person:
You missed the point since you sort of went in a circle... I'm pointing out that some people may have one answer for a certain situation but when another similar situation comes by, they have a different answer. Not that the right answer is that Saegye is a bad person. You can read from the start again where I said that there's no easy answer.
Essentially, apologies if it comes off as offensive and it's not my meaning, but it's not about your personal opinion. If you're consistent in how you feel about the two situations, then that's good for you. But that's not the point here, no? It's that we may feel one way about a situation but feel another way about a similar situation.
E.g. Korea's current huge controversy. We may have a kneejerk reaction when we hear about staff and friends who keep quiet about the higher-ups who r*ped women, saying that they're horrifying cowards even though they may have kept quiet to protect their families, but they sympathise with Saegye here.
Well, that's mostly what I said. There are too many factors to situations as a whole to be able to have the same answer every time in a similar situation, but I still stand by what I said in the last response. For example, in the case of this manga, there (yet, maybe) is no clear answer as to who is the "bad" person and there likely will no one, because that's human nature, but in the case of Holocaust, you can clearly point out the bad one. But that happens very rarely in real life. I don't think Saegye is a bad person, but I also don't think Han is a bad person. They have their own dilemmas and motives, but ultimately, not matter what they do, it's always a lose for someone who hasn't done anything wrong. Same for the controversy about raping women, no matter what people who know about it do, it's either a lose situation for them or the women. The problem is, depending on the situation, it's going to be worse either for the victims, or themselves, so it's not always about the morale.
It's not rather that I disagree with you or missed the point, I just added another perspective to such situations, which shows how complex human thinking process is and there's rarely a clear answer.
I know. That's what I said in my reply: that there's rarely a clear answer.
Hm, I think you may be trivialising the Holocaust. Many of the privileged people had no choice. They would be killed and treated the same, so I'm not sure why you say that you can clearly point out the bad one.
"The problem is, depending on the situation, it's going to be worse either for the victims, or themselves, so it's not always about the morale."
This is interesting. What you seem to be suggesting is that when it comes to these kind of moral dilemmas, it's about utilitarianism: the best outcome is the outcome with the most utility. And that itself has its problems. It is easy to say, "let the person who has to suffer least suffer", but is it fair for that person?
I'll just emphasise again, because I know a lot of people skim lengthy comments: I don't have an answer, neither am I saying that you disagree, but I do think you may have skimmed so you missed sort of what I'm saying. I'm here to have a discussion, as you can see in the topic below.
Errr I don't get this reply. I mean yeah it makes sense but not in reply to what OP said? Like I got the idea that OP is saying that people may think this way about Saegye but not the same about genocides? That the change their thinking?
TBH I think it's childish to always try to find one answer. To say that it's the system's fault, ok... but the system is made up of many "person"s. Saying it's the system's fault, duh, it's obvious and the dumbest way to shirk any personal responsibility. That doesn't sovle anything.
YES, thank goodness. I was wondering if I read it confusingly that it made it sound like the questions I wrote were my opinion. Did I word it weirdly? I wasn't sure why Eva Mark 06 would reply with "There is a difference between willing to help and being able to" so I kind of assumed they didn't read properly.
Oh that's interesting. I also read about this recently, Space Shuttle Columbia that crashed. People blamed the system, others wanted particular people held responsible. It's true, now that I think about it. Sometimes we just brush it off as that the system is the problem and we have to change the system, but it can be meaningless words as nothing is really done. Not that Eva Mark 06 meant it meaninglessly.
It wasn't confusing? was straight forward to me. Don't know if you're new, but people don't bother to read here. We're discussing mangas. lots are young kids that are just horny for yaoi and get hella angry if you say anything that doesn't worship their opinion lololol. Yea that's what I hate the most. like ok it's the system's fault, not the people? well find me that damn system and dismantle it. and i oop- system's made up of p e o p l e.
I think the dilemma the author brings up is so thought-invoking. A lot of people say easily that Han is a bad person and Saegye has no obligation to help him, even if it's sad that Han's brother is innocent and will pay for a crime that he did not do. But they may not have the same thoughts for genocides happening across the world between a privileged race and a not-so-privileged race. It may not be an exactly equal analogy, but it is a similar one.
We always ask ourselves, how could people just watched as the holocaust went on? Some call those privileged people in the country bad for living a good life and not trying to do anything while the rest suffered. But these privileged people feared for their lives if they didn't follow orders.
So, would you say it was right for them to keep quiet? They didn't want to be outed as sympathisers and be killed. Then, if it's right, would you say those underprivileged people who were tortured and killed should not pressure the privileged people and that those underprivileged people should solve their own problems?
Just questions to think about.
EDIT: Because Eva Mark 06 mistook my comment, maybe others might similarly mistake my comment, so I want to make it clearer:
'm pointing out that some people may have one answer for a certain situation but when another similar situation comes by, they have a different answer. Not that the right answer is that Saegye is a bad person. I am not posing rhetorical questions, but questions to think about that I don't know how to clearly answer.
E.g. Korea's current huge controversy. Some here may have a kneejerk reaction when they hear about staff and friends who keep quiet about the higher-ups who r*ped and drugged women, saying that they're cowards even though they may have kept quiet to protect themselves and their families, but they sympathise with Saegye here.