I don't want to upset anyone or have a fight but I was thinking about the discussion about...

Unintentional ABuse June 1, 2019 1:56 pm

I don't want to upset anyone or have a fight but I was thinking about the discussion about Joowon being an abuser or not.
I see people calling the relationship abusive and I see people defending Joowon of the charges because they started like that and Haesoo always accepted and in Joowon's eyes he wasn't 'walking over Haesoo'.
I was wondering if abuse is abuse only when the person has a deliberate intention to harm or abuse the other. In broad terms, the answer is no. Religious parents who think they are doing what is right by refusing to take their kids to a hospital because of faith are prosecuted for abuse... In their eyes, they had no intention to abuse. From the kid's pov, well, he may be dead.
Almost all defense of Joowon goes something like that 'I don't excuse Joowon's actions but .... " and they usually say he is misunderstood or that he hurts too ( jealousy) or that he is not an abuser because he loves Haesoo or he is immature, etc. Anyway, first, that is actually called exculpatory evidence so either they realize or not, they are excusing Joowon's behavior. Not that they are wrong in giving exculpatory evidence, after all, when you are judging someone, their defense attorneys will present things to argument for their lack of guilty or excuse them. I saw people say that he coercing Haesoo to give him a blow job should not be seen as abusive since he offered to do the same so abusers don't do that. .... what is a weird approach to me because it's like saying someone who forces sex on you is not abusing you if he offers himself for sex too.... The point is that Joowon do what he wants, no matter if Haesoo wants it or not ( and we saw this glimpse of behavior in the previous scene when he buys clothes that he likes for Haesoo even though Haesoo doesn't want or like the style).
Anyway, back to the 'It feels like abuse but I don't think he meant it like that' .... I think this links to the same question: 'Is every abuser a monster?' I don't think so. There are shades of grey in this. Does Joowon needs to be a full blown monster for people qualify him as abusive? Does Joowon has any awareness that what he does is harmful? We can dwell on this but I think Joowon introduction about being an asshole and his vision that people are either predator or prey should be taken in consideration here. This is already a person who' thinks in terms of either you dominate and control or you are dominated and controlled. So Joowon's seems more like someone who has a natural sense of entitlement that he will own his partner and if he finds a docile 'willing' partner, he may not think that what he is doing is a big deal. Most people assign abuse to horrible people so it's hard to call someone charming and that has tenderness moments as abusive. And let's be frank, being hot helps a lot. Joowon would have almost zero fans willing to 'understand' him if the author had draw a gross looking guy saying 'Don't fall for me because I won't fall for you' to someone who they seduced and keep as lover or any other thing Joowon does it that makes Haesoo harm himself. An ugly asshole is never 'misunderstood', they are just assholes.
Maybe asking 'If it's not intentional, it's still abuse?" does not make sense to ask. It depends on what you mean by intent and how much the person has empathy enough to feel the pain from the other without being told (or pushed or screamed or slapped back to notice). From Haesoo's point of view, he is being walked over and he certainly suffers the most with their dynamic. From Joowon's POV, they are just have the same 'fun' that they always did. Still someone in this pair is left emotionally drained and broken while the other, in comparison, sounds more adjusted and okay with it. Of course there is Haesoo's role in his own misery. Just like with Joowon's fault, Haesoo also has his grey scale in that. If you are sympathetic with Haesoo you may see his behavior as typical abused person who stays by the person who hurts them because they adjust to the person they love to get any affection they can get... Or you can defend Haesoo's by pointing that it seems he does objects a lot and complains although he ends up submitting in the end, it shouldn't take an outburst for Joowon to stop.
Anyway, I don't have a good argument either. Personally, I think that every relationship with a lopsided power imbalance where one person dominates and control and the other ends in submission not because they enjoy it ( some people do enjoy their role) is inherently abusive, sometimes light or heavier. If Joowon's lack of basic empathy (he doesn't see the obvious) or awareness makes his 'abuse' less accountable is a valid point too, I guess. So maybe both sides are right, depending if you look from Joowon's POV or Haesoo. Either way, this is a couple where one is on the verge or a breakdown and the other sees their relationship going so well that they are ready to put on rings. ╮( ̄▽ ̄)╭

Responses
    Well June 1, 2019 3:15 pm

    To me what defined Joowon x Haesoo relationship was the exchange:

    "You never listens to a word I say" ( This is the author telling us that Haesoo has been trying to communicate and voicing his annoyances but Joowon just disregarded as not important)
    "That's why you love, right?" ( Joowon actually thinks Haesoo likes to be ignored and owned by him).

    I don't know if Joowon can be qualified as abuser or not. The word is heavy but I get your point that from an 'abuser' point of view, what they do is never wrong if their intention is other. However, it doesn't matter. Joowon main trait is that he is self centered despite his love for Haesoo. He drives this relationship as he thinks it should be and he has headphones on telling him he is charming and the best boyfriend ever. Who wants to be in a relationship where someone doesn't notice that you are drowning right there by their side ? Where they sleep soundless and you stay awake dwelling in misery? Haesoo is stuck with a guy that doesn't listen to his normal voice, doesn't see him as he is and this should be reason enough to get out.

    kusachi June 1, 2019 3:30 pm
    To me what defined Joowon x Haesoo relationship was the exchange:"You never listens to a word I say" ( This is the author telling us that Haesoo has been trying to communicate and voicing his annoyances but ... @Well

    Preach

    god isn't real June 1, 2019 4:36 pm

    This is an incredible comment, and your take on things and how you approach the problem says a lot about you.