I've seen some.. Jus in case you missed it.
http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/doku_ni_mo_naranai_propose/
http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/the_crows_marriage/
http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/yokujou_iwamoto_kaoru/ - Long series
^^
yeah, maybe you missed those?
You can always check the New Manga section
http://www.mangago.zone/list/new/all/1/
Mangago is becoming more and more a place for manhwas, and less and less mangas get updated. This is something that I don't like so much either.
Even though 90% of manhwas don't reach yet the level or quality, detail - art or scenario, animation - of mangas, they're OVERRATED.
Maybe people are moved by the amator aspect and colorful drawings of manhwas, but this should not explain that manhwas get so much more points and views.
Maybe it's a given thing that japanese mangas are (and should be better), and that readers don't care anymore about its existence, but if people don't know how to appreciate the quality of a work, quality will be lost with time, and all we'll see will be cheap, fast executed BL/manhwas. It is what people want?
Sigh... Guess thats what people want ( T﹏T ) but i dont want that. No matter how colorful or whatever, even the art in webtoon doesnt appeal to me as much as manga. I prefer quality over quantity anyday. Tbh it irritates me when people say and do stuff which OVERLY overrates them . Bah! Its ok. I feel most sorry for the people paying at Lehzin. I dunno what high and mighty feelings they have from spending their precious money over millions of chapters. Dumb marketing strategy...
When i say gimme a manga with PLOT. I dont mean gimme a webtoon with long string of repeatative and typical chapters with typical ending. I MEAN gimme some manga, be it short, but let there be a good plot. Ooff... Same is when i ask for a long read. Gimme a bl danmei or anything but webtoons. I dont "read" webtoons. Word density is 10-20 sentences per chapter. Which thing i "read" has so less words?
Thank you. I read some of them not all. ^^;
"I feel most sorry for the people paying at Lehzin."
Wow. Just wow. Not only are you looking down on the people who are legitimately showing their support to the authors, but in extension, you're also being condescending to webtoon authors in general. You may say that it's a dumb marketing strategy, but it's how they get paid, totally different from Japan and/or US who have physical copies for their works to sell. Then again, we ARE reading from manga streaming site, so we don't get to talk about the people paying, 'kay?
"When i say gimme a manga with PLOT. I dont mean gimme a webtoon with long string of repeatative and typical chapters with typical ending."
Sure, yeah, like manga totally don't have repetitive and typical chapters with typical endings. People are so focused on labeling webtoons as overrated when in fact it has only appeared that way because webtoons have only recently been getting popular over the years. If the situation has been flipped, and webtoons came first and manga to follow much later, I daresay that people would call manga as "overrated".
I don't even get how people could call webtoons as "overrated", when personally I've only read a handful of terrible webtoons, and so many good stories -- so it's totally deserving of praise. Webtoons are amateurish, has lower quality than manga, AND cheap/fast executed BL? *laughs* Yeah, suuuuuure. ╮(￣▽￣)╭
"Word density is 10-20 sentences per chapter. Which thing i "read" has so less words?"
Perhaps you're looking for a book or light novel? Seriously, the point of manga and webtoons is storytelling through visual representation and dialogue, and not necessarily the "word density" in its contents. If it successfully conveys the message through its visualization regardless of the amount of words, then it achieves its purpose, hence also why it's considered as counterpart to novels. If you may have noticed, "too much words" in a manga/webtoon medium is actually a flaw, as more readers would actually get tired or bored or any other negative feeling upon reading. In fact, many manga have addressed this problem through parodies, like in Sket Dance.
Overall, I don't have a preference over one or the other -- I like both of them, and each have their own charms. However, I can say that your opinion (and kinda the other guy's) is mighty obnoxious, and ignorant if I must say so. (▰˘◡˘▰)
Ok you have the right to be against me. Manga do have stereotypical plot as well. But YES. I FEEL SORRY FOR THEM NOT PROUD.
What should i say suppose for someone who buys cold drinks, which i dont like? Someone offers it to me for free, so i take it or decline the offer. Does that mean i should be proud of the one who bought it? Does that mean i am saying i can make nectar? Does that others cant enjoy or defend it? Does that mean i love the fact everybody enjoys it?
Its ME who sounds "mighty", "obnoxious"? am i talking about myself here? And how to best insult someone's opinion you dont agree with? Call them "ignorant". Enlighten me please with what YOU know Milady!!!
You're here to teach me what a manga is? Its like offering to teach me English Alphabet. Whose dignity are you questioning by doing that?
I was telling webtoons are something which is suggested when people ask in the question section "Hi, please recommend me a BL with a long plot". WHAT DO YOU GUYS SUGGEST RIGHT AWAY? "Blood Bank", "Killing Stalking", "Dark Heaven" whatnot? Do you guys generally suggest manga/light novel?
Did i say all manga is plot rich? You'll suggest webtoons in that case which isnt something asked for either, but you all rigidly assume it is. ALSO THIS SITUATION IS HYPOTHETICAL. I am not actually asking for plot.
"Ignorant" isn't a fact, it's an opinion. And as opinion, we can also say that you're ignorant if we want.
This is right that manhwas are a new thing and as the new thing that they are, attracted curisosity and views. Their amateurism looks attract people, and the way they've been made is also what makes their success.
About me, this is not really because they're webtoons or mangas or manhwas that bothers me.
The media from which the stories are made is not a problem for me. It can be a webcomic, but made like a manga.
How and what to judge in a comic work ? As I know, we mostly judge :
The art (because I draw myself), the scenario and the "animation"/layout of the comic.
- THE ART : beauty of the features of the characters, originality, proportions and fluidity of the movements, details and work on the environment...
Mangas, even though have also their terrible and worst like everywhere else, still have the most amazing art and detailed, complexe and fluid design in many of them.
- THE SCENARIO/PLOT : not yet a manwha that will stay in the memories as such : Akira (Seinen, SF), Slam Dunk (Shonen, sportive), Death Note (Seinen), Vagabond... And all those are mangas.
Now, about the yaoi genre : none BL manhwa equels yet Ai no Kusabi (novel, SF), Maiden Rose (historic), Haru wo daiteita (actors), Viewfinder (mafia) (even though I'm not a fan of Viewfinder)... Those BL don't offer not only a romance/drama or lemons for the readers, they also offer a concept and universe.
Some manwhas actually have a nice scenario and intrigue, like : Killing Stalking, Dark Heaven, Lookism... But they are outnumbered by the majority of cheap scenarios and average art present in manhwas. There is not concept or universe in those BL manhwas, this results in them becoming repetitive, and the intrigue only relays or evolve arround the sex.
If we can reproach sometimes too much reading in mangas, we can also say that the major default of manhwas is the LACK OF RYTHM AND LACK OF DYNAMISM by the way they were realized (layout).
In a manga page, as we know, there are few cases (generally from 3 to 8). If the author knows what they do, we can basically see evolving a character in one page.
The rythm can be dynamic.
In manwhas, there is only one case (or two), and if each case is divided btw by a white space, and the narration consist only in small sentances, it's becoming tiresome, and even... boring to read.
Infortunately, many manwhas give off the feeling they've been fast executed, especially when we look at the background and environment, finition of the work. The art is, in many of these comics, dull, not fluid, the characters are not well proportionate... Not all, but some tend to have the same art also.
So, it's understandable that many manhwas are cute ; the readers can follow them case by case, it's colorful etc, it looks nice because it's mostly amator... BUT, most manwhas still have less quality than mangas, in every aspect.
So, it's fine if the readers are in their teen and like the (over)dramas in manhwas, but for people like me who have certain standards or high expectations, this is not what we want.
I'm not asking you to be proud of them, but at least be respectful of their decision to even buy so that they can support and/or legitimately enjoy the stories they read. You don't like them paying? Okay, I can take that, but you feeling sorry for them? I'm just saying that you might not actually have the right to criticize them seeing as they're objectively on the higher moral ground here, compared to most of us here who don't even pay for the shit we read, when really we should have.
That's what I meant by obnoxious, it's simply unpleasant to hear opinions like yours when it comes off as hypocritical and/or immoral. Add that to the fact on the whole situation as to why people are even paying in Lezhin in the first place, then yes, it also comes off as ignorant. Just because I was against your opinion, doesn't mean I can call you whatever I want for no good reason, I did have one.
In any case, you may have misinterpreted a lot of what I said actually. I wasn't teaching you what a manga is, more like reminding you what it essentially is (though I guess it does come off as high-handed, sorry). You compared manga and manhwa based on word density, so I responded that it doesn't even matter in the first place because that's not how the two work. I wasn't really questioning nor attacking anyone's dignity, but if I did sound like that, then I sincerely apologize as it wasn't my intention to do so.
"Blood Bank", "Killing Stalking", "Dark Heaven" -- Objectively speaking, they are indeed BL with long plot, so there's nothing really wrong with those webtoons being suggested. Even converting to manga standards, it easily comprises of 20-30 chapters at least(?). Actually, many BL manhwa/webtoons have indeed long plots (as some of them are adapted from long light novels), even more so than manga with most only having 5-6 chapters. It's actually rarer for a manga with more than the typical chapters to appear, as there's really only a few, and also, they're mostly not recent, so it's easily overlooked by newer fans. Hence, it's really mostly probability that more manhwa are going to be suggested to you than manga. If you really wanted an exclusive manga only suggestion, then specifically imply it. ╮(￣▽￣)╭
I see. Reading more on your constructive criticism, I can see how you would prefer manga over webtoons from your perspective.
Though in terms of plot and memorability, manga would obviously have the advantage. It has the headstart (has been exposed earlier) than webtoons, established most (if not all) of the "original" plot, and has been considered as the standards because of that. It's no surprise how webtoons come off as repetitive.
On the contrary however, I still don't believe how "most manwhas still have less quality than mangas, in every aspect". I can't even call the art styles as "amateurish" as you said since I see it as more detailed than many manga (I also draw actually). Most recent BL webtoons focus more on the conflict and drama and many can portray it better than numerous manga. I actually find many webtoons to have good pacing, though of course there are plenty that goes straight to smut, but that's not really anything different from many BL manga.
Also, the layout of webtoons is what sets it apart from manga. It makes them unique and different, and actually not in a bad way. Many webtoons work perfectly well in scroll-down format (most notably those frickin' jumpscare horror webtoons).
"Ai no Kusabi (novel, SF), Maiden Rose (historic), Haru wo daiteita (actors), Viewfinder (mafia) (even though I'm not a fan of Viewfinder)"
Personally, if I base it on today's standards, those aforementioned aren't even the best. I actually only like Maiden Rose (out of the four) but mostly because I love the angst and intensity portrayed, though I do like Viewfinder's art.
In conclusion, I would very much disagree that "people with high expectations" would not want webtoons. I have high expectations in both manga and webtoons, but I would not be easily discouraged if it doesn't meet my standards, and I would even find for things in it that I would instead enjoy, and it usually does the job, regardless of medium. (▰˘◡˘▰)
(My reply was destined to Y401, of course...)
OVERRATED, yes, manhwas are.
Don't believe me? Following the criterias : art, plot, animation, finition...
Tsuki to Yabanjin : 9.1 compared to, for exemple... Blunder turned wonder : 9.3
Maiden Rose : 9.2 Vs Royal Servant : 9.4
Dragless sex : 8.3 Vs The Devil's Temptation : 9.3
Ikoku Irokoi Romantan : 8.8 Vs A Paramour : 9.2
etc etc... WTF?!
Wether art, plot or finition, mangas overtake manhwas, yet, have less points.
So either the readers just like more fast executed and over dramatic comics like those manhwas, either they don't like the manga format anymore.
Yeah, we're agree that mangas came first and became the standards as it is very popular throughout the world.
But what impedes or constitutes an obstacle for korean manhwas to give us such great scenario as those I mentionned (Akira, Vagabon, Death Note...)? Or to create a total
new art style? Nothing impede the manhwas authors to do so, right?
What are they wainting for?
The truth is, one decade ago, many readers find the korean art in comics weird. It's only not long ago that people start to accept manhwas because the art becomes closer to manga's. If you draw, you should know that fact.
I don't have a particuliar problem with manhwas/webcomic format either. Dark Heaven, Killing Stalking and some others are nice, they have nice art and complex plot...
I still read at least few pages if not chapters to make an opinion - wether manga or manhwa -, but truthfully, I get bored easely with all these other manhwas.
Art style - not even speaking about the proportions -, plot... they simply don't reach my expectations.
If you draw, I'd like to see what you do. I'll post also one of my latest drawings if you want.
IN CONCLUSION. I dont want any more fights please. Can we chill? This fight wont lead to more updates for bl mangas anyway.
I wouldn't really trust the ratings here actually, at least I don't since I myself don't rate (lol). I only mostly rely on what I see (in comments, etc.) and what I think, hence why my notion of webtoons as not overrated is purely subjective. And indeed there are some manhwa I'd say that are too "highly praised" such as Killing Stalking -- which in all fairness does indeed have an intriguing narrative and interesting plot but not too much on the scale of being glorified.
I usually read webtoons in the BL and RPG-like genre, and rarely outside of that, but even then I still find them very fascinating art-wise. Though I concede that while I do hold many artstyles in webtoons as great, I haven't found one that captured me the most like with One Piece. Also, I actually didn't know that Korean art in comics were considered weird. I searched for some and I thought that they're similar with old Japanese artstyles (lol).
Haha, I actually rely on models and bases to make digital art, so I can't say that I'm a professional. And I have mostly only drew Danganronpa-related fanarts as that series is my all-time favorite. (≧∀≦)
So, you don't actually know what you base your judment when rating (or when people rate) a work? Especially here, some art works? Are you sure you draw?
Since you only rely on the note people give, read the comments...
And the fact that you mention One Piece... Lol, yeah, One Piece is an "original" as art, but it's not classic beauty or canon. Firstly, you can't properly judge comics if the only thing fascinate you is... One Piece.
You don't know much either about what I'm talking when I say that korean manhwas were considered as weird du to their former graphism. If you want a clear image, look at the manhwas SUMMIT. Their art was similar to this one.
And not to the "old japanese art style, lol.
I'm not a pro either, but this is not a reason not to show your production.
Sorry, but you're only making excuses, you're not really credible in this case.
I'm not really a fan of Killing Stalking, but at least the art and graphism is nice (compared to those many manhwas I see...).
One should assume what they say, dear. There's nothing wrong with that and this is how people grow more responsible and mature.
I'm still waiting for her/him to show us their amazing drawing.
Well, umm if you're really curious... though I can't say my artstyle is very good though. ╮(￣▽￣)╭
https://aminoapps.com/c/danganronpa/page/user/k1-3l/1JXY_amvs8fz42qPL6jEjlno54lnXgDjlpk
It seems that I can't give criticism if I don't draw art myself? Okay then. (￣∇￣")
Also, if you have noticed, I actually only praise the artstyle, because I understand that I'm not on that level. I only judged the premise of the plots, but hey I'm no author either, the best I could do are some cringey wattpad stories *shivers*. Though that does not really hinder me from judging the story itself, does it?
Also, clarification, I don't really "rate" works, I never did that. I just don't think webtoons are "overrated". They're different. An opinion and a rating are separate -- the former's subjective, the latter's objective (kinda).
In addition, you misunderstood what I said.
"Though I concede that while I do hold many artstyles in webtoons as great, I haven't found one that captured me the most like with One Piece."
I was setting One Piece as an example, but it's not the "only" one that I fascinate, (lol) I never said that at all. I was referring to how none of the webtoons captured me like One Piece in terms of artstyle -- it was only a comparison out of many. Though, I would actually consider One Piece's artstyle as a classic beauty to be honest. I mean why not?
By the way, do you mean the BL manhwa "The Summit"? Then forgive me if you weren't specific enough to mention what exactly you were talking about. I thought you were referring to "Kobe"(?) and the like, though I'm not sure of the translation. [But fyi, they do look like old Japanese art.] Back to "The Summit", it was considered as weird? Really? I've read it myself and I don't even find it weird. ╮(￣▽￣)╭
I think its not just me who noticed... Its been so many days since a new bl MANGA was uploaded.: ( i dont mean anything else, towards translators or anyone, please dont feel pressurised. I am just kinda sad. Mostly webtoons are getting updated, which is something i dont prefer over manga: (.