He's not autistic, that's just fanon.

my best friend's sis was autistic, she was exacly like the dude from the manga except

I didn't say that it is canon that it isn't autism, in fact, i even said "maybe it'll end up revealing he's autistic, but that isn't canon". Saying something isn't canon isn't the same as saying something canonly isn't something. I was saying him being autistic isn't canon, not that him not being autistic is canon. I then went on to give the canon reason given within the manga, that he himself recalls, for his behavior. it's not a matter of "believing", it's the canon, it's what is explicitly stated.

What? What specifically did you not understand?

Saying something "isn't canon" leaves it up in the air as a possibility, saying that "something is canonly not something" means it's been confirmed to not be that thing. I never said it is canon that he isn't autistic, that'd mean it was stated within the manga that he isn't autistic, what i said was that "it isn't canon that he is autistic". "it isn't canon that he is autistic" and "it is canon that he isn't autistic" are two separate statements.

To be frank, BriBri0106, it was you who misunderstood. I've just been trying to correct your misunderstanding.

I disagree that strength/strength control is presented as the canon reason for his behaviour and being ostracised. Many behaviours are presented throughout the manga that cause others to react negatively/reject him. The manga clearly shows the MC explaining behaviours, emotions and reasons to him that he hasn't been able to understand on his own. At the same time, the manga clearly shows both people in the restaurant and people from his past reacting to behaviours generally considered inappropriate in a given situation and assuming he is angry, rough, rude, arrogant or a bully, while the MC gradually learns he thought he was behaving reasonably and didn't understand why others were upset with him. So, the fact that his difficulties are not limited to strength control is canon.

I agree that Autism is not presented as the reason for his behaviour. We who have some knowledge/experience/expertise with Autism recognise that all of his behaviour is entirely consistent with Autism and speculate that this is the intended explanation, but there is NO explicit reason provided that explains the full range of his behaviour. Strength is one aspect that was addressed, but it is not a comprehensive explanation for his behaviour.

I hope that made sense and explained why some of us are not just focusing on one problematic behaviour.

I mean, it kind of did show that it is the problem within the last chapter. You're bringing up "the entire manga", but the way the story was told is in a retrospective way towards the recent chapter. In other words, it showed us the character and some problems he's currently facing, and then it expanded on that at the end by showing WHY he acts the way he currently does in a flashback. It explicitly shows that as a child he had issues controlling his strength and became ostracized, this lead to his current social ignorance. You keep pointing towards said social ignorance and trying to use it as an argument, but what i'm saying, what the story revealed, covers that. His social ignorance COULD have something to do with the way he percieves the world, it COULD mean he has a mental disorder and if it did it'd probably be autism. Unfortunately, as you yourself have mentioned, there is no actual, tangible evidence towards that notion. No medication shown, no therapist, nothing. What HAS been shown is that in the past he had issues with his strength and wasn't able to experience much social interaction, which is another valid reason he could be acting the way he does. Now, as there is no actual evidence he is autistic and there IS an explicit showing that he was ostracized, this is the canon. A bunch of people speculating based on observation unfortunately doesn't hold as much weight as the actual contents of the manga we're discussing.

Lol, no. You're drawing inferences from what i actually said.

The thought process while reading through this should've gone like this: you read through and notice the MC displays signs of autism, maybe it'll confirm it later--> *manga gives a valid reason other than autism for his behaviors* "i guess that was the actual reason. Maybe it'll still end up being that he's autistic, but for now the reason is what was given". Unfortunately people are clinging to their opinions that he's autistic rather than absorbing the new information.

I understand what you are saying, I mainly had an issue with your statement that the strength control was the definite and only reason and that this was unarguably canon. I don't have an issue with you reading the story and finding this a satisfactory explanation for you.

For me, regardless of whether he had Autism or not, a problem with strength control is NOT a satisfactory explanation as to why he has difficulty understanding the perspective of others. I want to know WHY he has a problem with controlling (or, as I read it, not controlling but JUDGING) his strength correctly/appropriately, and what else is going on in his head that explains the rest of his issues.

I agree that he has clearly become somewhat apathetic (has given up somewhat) due to others' negative reactions to his inappropriate use of strength, and his "clumsiness" has also caused him to become more cautious/timid. You're right that this has been clearly presented towards the end of the story. As I said, for me, though, this doesn't fully and satisfactorily explain everything he has problems with - although it may not be Autism that is the cause and may be something milder such as an extreme way of thinking, expounded by various factors in his past shown and perhaps some not shown.

So, it's alright for you to be satisfied with the way you read and interpreted the story. I think the people "arguing for Autism" are merely trying to get you to understand why they considered it, because it felt like you were dismissing the way others read the story and allowing only your perspective.

I think you're misunderstanding what i had said. The strength was the reason for his ostracism, the ostracism is the reason for his behavior. He didn't have the social interactions necessary to learn the social graces. I don't like you calling this "my perspective", this is the fact (i'll prove it at the bottom of this response), i'm not inferring anything from what was given to us. I'm stating what was directly given to us, not my interpretation of it or any conclusions i drew from what i saw. Right now it IS all that is there. Autism WAS the likely cause behind his behavior, but now we know it is just because he grew up alone. Autism is still a POSSIBILITY, but that isn't canon.

Evidence:

1. http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/motomete_yamanai/mrk/m_v-1-chapter-5/3/- "I've had trouble adjusting ever since i was a kid", this tells you that the chapter is a flashback revealing why he's "had trouble adjusting" and that it started "as a kid".

2. http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/motomete_yamanai/mrk/m_v-1-chapter-5/4/- Here you see that his issue as a child was his strength, he hurt the classmate's hand by grasping too hard. You also see the teacher tell him not to "bully" his friend and as you can see on page 5, this gives him the idea that he IS a bully and makes him avoid people.

3. http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/motomete_yamanai/mrk/m_v-1-chapter-5/5/- "why aren't you playing with everyone?", "because i'm a bully"- As i had mentioned in #2, you see he started to distance himself from his classmates because he thought he was a bully. It is then that you see another example of his strength being an issue when the child talking to him here says "throw the ball with all you've got" and it shows on page 6 that he threw too hard and hurt the kid.

4. http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/motomete_yamanai/mrk/m_v-1-chapter-5/6/- As i had mentioned in #3, the kid gets hurt and after you see the mother of that child call him violent.

5. http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/motomete_yamanai/mrk/m_v-1-chapter-5/7/- "A bully and violent. Therefore, i end up hurting others. I get scolded and feared. They keep their distance from me", here he explains how he views himself because of his lack of strength control (i.e. the "hurting others" part) and how people avoid him because they view him as a bully BECAUSE of the lack of strength control.

6. http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/motomete_yamanai/mrk/m_v-1-chapter-5/8/- "it's better to only have things near me that i can't hurt". On this page you see that he himself has started to avoid people, instead he surrounds himself with things he owns that wont break as easily. Notice his use of the word "break" to indicate strength again, that and that he caused physical damage to both those kids.

7. http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/motomete_yamanai/mrk/m_v-1-chapter-5/10/- "what should i do, i totally forgot to control my strength". He explicitly states it is "strength control" here.

See? Everything i said was explicitly shown. He had issues controlling his strength and this led to little social interaction. Without social interaction you can't learn the basic social graces.

Thank-you for taking the time to explain. I want to reassure you that I did understand that (I know it's frustrating when you think someone doesn't). I can also tell you're frustrated because you can't understand why I (or some others) aren't convinced by what you feel is clear evidence. I think you just might not be able to see that there could possibly be another way of reading all of the evidence that you have presented, it seems very black and white to you and obvious. What we are saying feels obvious to us, and it is hard for some people that you can't see what seems obvious to them!

So, I can see what you mean, but I still did not read the information presented the same way that you did. To me, what it showed explicitly was obviously also indicating implicit inferences that the mangaka intended us to make. I don't think it's correct to dismiss this show-don't-tell strategy that all good story creators use, but I see that this is how we are different, as you prefer to base your judgements only on what was stated explicitly in the story.

Thanks for listening to all of my explanations. I don't think I can get you to appreciate my explanations (I'm not asking you to agree, just to acknowledge their validity), and I don't think I'm going to agree with yours, but I DO understand yours. I don't mind at all that you disagree with me. It seems like you won't acknowledge my stance, so I think I'll end it here.

Thanks again for the discussion, it was interesting!

That isn't an argument.

You think that the author intended us to think he is autistic? I mean, maybe. Who knows? I want to make clear that i"m not trying to be rude or anything, my whole topic was just to say "it isn't canon", not that "it isn't autism" or "it couldn't be autism". That's it. I have no problems with people having opinions, what i'm arguing is that it isn't a fact. Nothing more. I believe i have acknowledged the "it's autism" theory, i'm just not acknowledging it as canon or fact. The theory makes sense based on the observations. As far as that you understood what i was saying, what had confused me was that in your last response you'd said "a problem with strength control is NOT a satisfactory answer for why he has an issue with understanding the perspective of others", this implied you thought i was saying his strength is what made him socially awkward. Anyways, sorry if i gave you any negative emotions, i actually didn't mean to. Thanks for being civil. (´ڡ`)

P.S. I was actually diagnosed by a family therapist with Asperger's syndrome, i wonder if that's why it's so "black and white" to me? Who knows?

Oh! Thanks for clarifying, sorry I misunderstood about you not acknowledging the possibility of something more (and sorry if I was unclear sometimes, it's not always easy to communicate this way, is it?).

(PS I honestly wondered about that, based on how you explained things! But it's not as if people on the Spectrum are the only people in the world who like to rely more on explicit information/logical presentation of events etc., is it? Anyway, thanks again and have a good day!)

(Oh, I didn't mean to ignore your first sentence there: I can't know definitely what the author intended, but I do think the author intended that there was something more underlying everything that was causing him difficulty - I read it that way throughout the whole thing and read the little story of the past that he told as still a symptom of him continuing to accept literally the things that people said about him rather than realise the cause of his problems was actually due to an underlying difference in thinking. But this what the exact cause was was left open and unexplained by the mangaka, so whether one is concerned about a further explanation or accepts just what is presented is left up to the reader. As I said, though, that's how I read the whole thing, and it seems others did too, but it's apparent that there are others who did not read it like that. So, we are different there. :) )

No problem, i'm glad i clarified that. I had been trying to clarify a few times, BriBri0106 had said the same thing so i'd been trying to throw it out there that i'm not rejecting anything. I had to say the same thing to them. Unfortunately they still hate me and think i'm 12, i'm 23. I'm glad i talked with you about it at least as i really wasn't trying to hurt anyone. Thanks again and i'm sure i'll eventually see you later! Small community and what-not. (´ڡ`)

Yep! I lurk more than comment, but I'm around. A lot. Too much...

(And don't let the people who resort to insults bother you. They're frustrated because they don't feel acknowledged or can't get someone to agree, and in frustration they give up trying to explain and find themselves saying belittling things instead. Their frustration is understandable, but the belittling comments can read as an indication that they're frustrated rather than taken personally. I'm really glad you persisted in explaining both your own perspective but also in clarifying that you acknowledge (although don't agree with) others. I think it's easy for people to unintentionally sound dismissive or condescending in these mangago comments and I notice that a lot of people get upset as soon as they think that's the case. I ended up feeling satisfied from our conversation, so I'm glad we kept at it!)