Tf

Not defending this manga never did, all I could think after reading it was “oh, yippee, another one.” *eyeroll*
Unfortunately most yaoi seem to start off relationships with ether non-con or the characters are coherenced into taking it. And don’t get me started on the very common “it looks like you’re enjoying yourself even if you say no.” Line. Would it kill to have at least one manga explain that a victim’s body can respond like that to being touched, even when they don’t what it to?
But my question has always been why is this classified as a yaoi or gay trope? Correct me if I’m wrong but I never (not that I've actively looked properly) read a heterosexual manga with this content.

Uhm excuse me. In WHAT part did the translator said that was “normal”!? They basically only warn about rape scenes up ahead and said that you shouldn’t read it just for realistic, that it’s based on fantasy. You’re so stupid. You need to go back to elementary school where they teach you basic manners and comprehension. You don’t get to discriminate the scanlation team that only translates for us readers KINDLY and ILLEGALLY and what you said about them is from your own words, not theirs. I went to their pages and nothing said anything about “rape is normal”....

Oh and I’m disgusting? IM DISGUSTING!? Ok so what? That’s your opinion. Hear this. I’m disgusting to go ahead and read a AUTHOR’S work based on either PURE FICTION or whatnot. I read other mangas in cases of rape because of the story or author admiring or illustration skills or curiosity or whatever means I’m disgusting. BUT that doesn’t mean we “enjoy” it.... like DO YOU SEE ANYONE SAYING “OH YAH. RAPE HIM!”. EVERYONE IS SAYING “THATS CRUEL. NOT MY BABY. NOOOO I HOPE SOMETHING COMES TO HIM” IN A FUJOSHI’S WAY. And in this manga’s case, everyone is saying how poorly the story was developed in a skilled fujoshi’s/reader’s set of mind. Like no one takes this as a joke but no one says anything about it cuz it’s not in reality. They treat this manga as a manga with a story to read with erotic sense which this manga has poor storyline.

*sigh*
You need to split reality and fantasy. ITS A GODDAMN MANGA WITH A STORY OR AN ILLUSTRATION OR AN INSIDE FANTASY OR A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE IN THE YAOI WORLD. IN FICTION AS ITS STATED!!!!!!! YOU CAN JOIN A LAWS ENFORCEMENT TO STOP RAPISTS IN THE WORLD, THE REAL WORLD, NOT THE FANTASY.

Rant over

I don't know you but I've the feeling you're overly dramatic.
You aren't feeling protected (??) going out on the streets anymore bc of rape stories? I can't comprehend this, let me ask you: You never read stories w/ murder etc. & felt the same?
That's not making any sense to me, you're NEVER safe going out of your house bc literally everything can happen. At least that's my view on life.....

I can only speak for myself and NEVER have I thought when reading a newspaper article about a rape incident I'd want it happens to me too. Instead i feel compassionate towards the 'victim' & ALWAYS wanted a harsher punishment given to the offender than what's normal in my country (the discrepancy btw offenses against human life & 'money stuff' is so out of order it's astonishing, you get more years for stealing something when hungry as when you'd harm a person).
I always fear for my teenage daughter when she's going out alone, when it's dark outside she's to be home or one of her male friends has to accompany her home. (but that's just how parents are, I think (▰˘◡˘▰) ).

The amount of rape & stabbing incidents has gone up dramatically where I'm from bc we 'imported' ppl w/ a society order/belief completely contrary to our own, where male violence is seen as normal whereas in (most of) the western world there's been a paradigm shift in values & it's now taboo. I'm maybe off topic now but I really can't imagine what'll become of our world, the changes since I was young are so great it's frightening.


But nonetheless I still CAN make a clear cut btw RL & fictious work (my fantasies). I can 'fantasise about rape' & still find it awful if it happens in RL to someone. I don't know why ppl have this big a problem w/ it, maybe:

1. there're mostly women reading yaoi (and yes, most of yaoi is strictly porn w/o a good plot, just fucking; there's a reason why most of them have a R16/18 tag)

2. historically speaking women where all the times victims of male violence, it's just a fact that a male body has much more muscles & power than female ones & can overpower women easily. It's normal for earlier ppl to rape & abduct women after raiding another clan, this fear is deep engrained imho in the female mind, only since the 20th century have there been a shift w/ women power (mentally) rising, not long ago (~50y) even in my country in middle europe the wife had to obey the husband, he's the law for her & abuse wasn't unknown but got unpunished more or less.

3. it's heineous but in many rape incidents there's an underlying shadow of: the women wanted it, what can a man do she irked him on etc.. That's a specific trade of rape, never would someone say this about a murder victim. It can clearly be traced from pt. 2, the 'victim shaming' is a fact, in some countries raped women even get killed or stoned for a malicious offense against them. (That's also the pov of many offenders in my country now, bc the women was wearing short clothes like a hoe (??!!!) etc. so he couldn't control himself..... That'll become a big problem in the future in our society imho, don't know how bad it really will become)

All together women are mostly seen as weak (physically totally right compared to men) & can be taken advantage off.
BUT that's not my view on women, I like & see them as strong & that's also how I view myself. I've lived long enough to acknowledge what important role women play in society & I don't view them as powerless. It's a good thing what the women empowerment have done so far for women rights, but maybe there are some areas where they're clearly going out of control & are too hysterical to be sometimes taken serious by others (at least in middle europe).

Maybe I went off topic a bit, but I wanted to give my view on RL & some historical facts.

I can only repeat myself & say it again: nobody (at least not me) w/ rape fantasies will want it happen in RL to them. It's a guilty pleasure that's to do w/ control issues, that's my take on it.
I can make a clear distinction btw what is real & what is fiction/fantasy, it doesn't make me a bad person to've some fantasies 'out of the norm' (??).
To say ppl w/ 'abnorm' (????) fantasies have no brain is such an insult, mostly they've too much of it & aren't able to stop it from working.

I get the feeling you don't want to understand why ppl have such fantasies & only want to see the crime in RL terms & shame 'us'.
Nobody would deny that EVERY victim of whatever violence against their body (mentally or physically) has a harsh way before them in healing again & it can them left 'broken' or unable to live on. But I still can't understand why 'my fantasy' is so wrong & the same ppl are screaming 'woah, this killer is so cool or this violent manga is so great'.....

To distinguish btw the real act & a [romanticized] depiction in fiction (w/ almost no real portrayal of the act as in RL) is what makes us an adult. To know what is wrong in RL, to've compassion towards other ppl is what discern us from psychopaths/crim off.The reason why I read manga is bc of this, if I want to feel bad I go read a newspaper or watch the news.

In no way do I think any of us will see rape now as normal! (and the scanlation team never stated this, but ok) But I do admit, as I stated before, it can desensitize us for the real crime. BUT: I'm sure no ADULT w/ life experience who's raised proper will ever think that crime acts in fiction are now the norm IRL (it's obvious for murder, but rape is the issue). That's far more more toxic for a young mind, who can be influenced easily. How to protect younger ones from this is hard today, where you can be online wherever & whenever mostly w/o parental supervision.

Maybe my flaw in all this thinking is that it's from a viewpoint of an aunt (in jap terms) w/ western background... I don't know.........

PS: I've read & watched many bios/docus about crimes from both viewpoints. Not everyone who experienced violence in whatever form will become an offender in any way. Ofc most of the serialkillers or heineoust offenders will have some history of the sort, but the main point is that they're psychopaths. There're also many who'd have a picture perfect upbringing & still ended up as psychopaths, what & why they are isn't even clear in research afaik. You'd also be surprised that most CEO's or bosses have traits of/are psychos themselves, w/ no campassion towards other human beings & unable to feel sympathy.
Just for the record, I was a victim of violence (not sexual) in my childhood myself. It didn't made me a killer or violent offender (at least since I'm a grown-up, I'm not proud my teenage y were wild). But there's a reason for the hobby psychiatriests to now say why I've such 'dark'(??) fantasies, right.....

Mangago didn't posted my 1st reply, so I wasn't sure of the 2nd half of my post what I've written exactly before......
If there're any inconcistencies pls humbly look over them (▰˘◡˘▰)

Yes, for sure you are at leaaaaaast 10 y older than me.

But come on, for real: when did I ever state that I like rape (No, I don't)??? Holy shit, I said I like 'rape' behold FANTASIES, as well as BDSM stuff. NEVER EVER did I say I want the RL rape experience, so I don't even get your point...... That's why it's called fantasies, but whatever......

OK, I get that it's really hard for you to understand that there'd be a RL act which you despise w/ all the trauma happening afterwards (for sure, no discussion no) & a similar act in fiction which you can fantasize about.
It's just not the same w/ BDSM, as I said clearly I want to be overpowered & unable to resist. W/ both parties agreeing to act out BDSM (at least that's how it'd be when done right) there'd be no I don't agree w/ this, as I'd be able to resist.
I just can't seem to get the point across, I only can say again and again: There's real life & there's my imagination/fantasies. And both are obviously not the same.........

Look, I've gotten old enough to thankfully know now what arouses me sexually. And I'm too old to make excuses, why'd I?

Shota is a really tough topic for me, I just can't understand why an undeveloped body'd arouse someone. I've tried to find reasons in my post before, whatever more there'd be is puzzling for me. I don't like it as I don't like rape per se , period.....

I've said it often before but as I've kids myself & I'm not stupid it's no question for me that young minds need protection far more. Ofc it is, as you aren't fully matured mentally far more later than in terms of body. You're easily influenced, there's a reason for the R tags.
Maybe you haven't read my statement really bc I also said that too much of everything is never good in any way. We can agree at least on something.

And no, I don't believe an adult sometimes reading stories w/ rape tropes will alter their view. Hell, for me it's clear an adult'd have a framework of values already & should know what are crimes & punishable acts IRL. Not only from being told when young......... So I don't know what your outlook of an adult is, it's not the same as mine obviously.....

My view on games is contrarely to yours: Fact is that there're many studies today who show that all these violent video games are able to alter a persons mind/brain structure. AND then it'd be obvious that developing minds/brains/personalities of young ppl are worth of protection the most. Maybe you also know that all these games (Call of duty etc.) can also alter ppl emotionally (surely, as emotions are formed in the brain also but not solely), make them easier to act out brutal & uncompassionate. No surprise right, I mean who'd want a compassionate soldier in war???
Every thought of us is nothing more than a spark btw brain cells, so ofc it means that when a game can alter your brain (cells) it also alters your viewpoint. Ppl playing these games ofc also get desensitized. I'm not from the US but I do know that many of the highschool shooters played this games excessively also.

But what does this have to do now w/ reading (rape stories) yaoi sometimes which I can't seem how this'd alter ones brain structure/world view. Desensitize yes, but not comparable to a reality game where you're more or less playing a killer or whatever.

PS: Look, I know victims of rape & many of them didn't cope good w/ their awful experience. But this happening IRL and a fictious story are just not the same, even if you can't get this in your head.
When i fantasize there's no (too) violent struggle involved, no harm to your body & the badly after effects, only pleasure. That's not comparable to the act IRL, is it was it is: a fantasy.......

We cant deny that yaoi / bromance etc made quite the number of ppl support gays or at least not be against them. Even if these people were brought up in a conservative old fashioned environment , once they get into yaoi , its easier for them to accept gays and feel like theyre normal. Its infact their inconscience that let them accept lgbt. So , reading a manga with rape and sayin its ok to read it as long as its fiction , then it becomes part of your inconscience and sure , you would sympathize with rape victims , but you wont feel any other emotions . Well , yes , i might be over dramatic or not making any sense at all , but humans are so weak they cant control feelings such as jealiusy , anger etc... how colould they suppress their sexual desires ? Also , about the murder case : murder isnt like rape bcuz rape is instinct while murder is done with thinking (unless its an immediate reaction ). Sorry if i offended anyone anyways , ill just get offended myself and shut my mouth bcuz its harder to change a persons point of view than to do a heart surgery nowadays

BULLSHIT.

Japan sell so much hentai on the street. I mean on the street and people read it on the trains. The whole genre is rape of women and yet the amount of rape crime in japan is fucking non-existent. Their porn genre is gang bang and rape. There is no correlation. Japanese people can differentiate between REALITY and FICITION

Compared to other countries preaching rape is wrong but yet the countries themselves are toppling with rape crimes.

This is fiction!!! Fiction!!

I'm more concerned about people, like you, who can't differentiate between whats real and whats not and preaching about it.

Fiction and morals shit don't go together and never will. Stop reading stuff like this if you can't handle it. Theres no problem with that but you really need to know where the line is.

Just because someone read shota, doesn't mean they are into it. Just because someone reads bestiality like pendulum, wolf in the house and watched beauty and the beast when they were a child (like millions of other children), does not mean they will act on it in real life. You point has so many fallacy.

1000% agreed

She needs to join law enforcement and start regulating actual rapist than regulating the rights of fictional characters **facepalming so bad**

In fact, UN asked japan to stop distribution of hentai and guess what japan said?

They said 'no' because they can differentiate between reality and fiction and people need to stop regulating the rights of fictional characters like the seashell person. Japan barely has any rape crimes because they know where the line is.

Honestly speaking, I'm more concerned about people like seashell who don't really know where the line is and think fiction and reality overlap! Jesus Christ

You don't seem to understand that there is a line between fiction and reality. You really don't. Stop trying to overlap them together. Its dangerous. Just stop. Reality and fiction are too separate things.

Stop trying to regulate rights of fictional characters. So what if people ship them like me? Will they ship them in real life? Hell No, I will puke my guts out. The only reason why they can ship it in the first place is because it is FICTIONAL.


People really like to say 'fuck the plot, pacing, dialogue, chemistry, world building, the amount of work the mangaka put in.'. This ain't moral, so it is a piece of shitty work? Wow, makes so much sense.

I enjoy both fluffy and dark yaoi with no preferences because in the end, they are all stories told by an person who put effort to make this for you. If it isn't you thing, drop it and move on. Nothing wrong with it! But when people start preaching on an illegal website, honestly, you sound like an idiot. The mangaka's themselves can differentiate between reality and fiction, Japan can, why can't you? It doesn't take a clever person to do that.

Moral and fiction will never go together. It never has ever in history and it never will.

Its also hypocrisy. Wolf in the house is the fluffiest manga alive and it is bestiality. Should it be banned? Fuck no. The chemistry, the world building, the drama and the plot is what matters. Not whether it is moral or not. Listen carefully, when a person reads something, it does not make up their character in real life. What kind of bullshit is that?

Fictional stories get people riled up like you. Not us. Not people who can differentiate between reality and fiction and enjoy it wholeheartedly for what it is. If we don't enjoy something, we drop it and move on. Not preach and criticize the work on a pirated website reading this for free.

wow you can't differentiate between reality and fiction either huh?

I'm so concerned about people like you. Stop overlapping fiction with reality. You think just because people start reading a manga that contains rape, theya re suddenly gonna start raping you? I don't know if you are 12. But I hate to break it to you but that won't happen.

Japan sell so much hentai on the street. I mean on the street and people read it on the trains. The whole genre is rape of women and yet the amount of rape crime in japan is fucking non-existent. Their porn genre is gang bang and rape. There is no correlation. Japanese people can differentiate between REALITY and FICITION

Compared to other countries preaching rape is wrong but yet the countries themselves are toppling with rape crimes.

This is fiction!!! Fiction!!

I'm more concerned about people, like you, who can't differentiate between whats real and whats not and preaching about it.

Fiction and morals shit don't go together and never will. Stop reading stuff like this if you can't handle it. Theres no problem with that but you really need to know where the line is.

Just because someone read shota, doesn't mean they are into it. Just because someone reads bestiality like pendulum, wolf in the house and watched beauty and the beast when they were a child (like millions of other children), does not mean they will act on it in real life. You point has so many fallacy.

I’m so happy someone agrees with me. Honestly, what this person said was disgraceful and stupid and offended. Like you can say anything else but don’t tarnish the Fujoshis or the scanlation team or the reader or the author or anyone’s reputation. That’s just messed up when u urself can’t split two different things *sigh*

Sorry, but I've to correct you in regard of murder vs rape.

Rape is instinct is imho a VERY DANGEROUS belief, wanting to've sex w/ someone is an instinct; but for sure not to make the decision to find/take a woman & have sex w/ her FORCEFULLY.
For both murder & rape a person has to make a CONSCIOUS decision to HARM (phys/psych) another human, there's a reason why it's a CRIME & punishable by law.
If your view on this'd be the norm, all rapists'd get unpunished bc they acted on instinct & could do nothing to prevent the act (that's bullshit ofc).
There's a reason we're not only animals driven by instinct only but 'homo SAPIENS', animals/mammals who can think & distinguish right from wrong & sometimes even act against one's instinct for the greater good/other humans.

Ofc we've strong emotions, there CAN BE reasons for getting acquitted for murdering/killing someone bc of selfdefense [instinct of protecting one's own life] or whatever BUT to get acquitted of raping someone bc of being horny ('my sexual instinct was overwhelming') or whatever, I mean come one.....
Even if you act on strong emotions the law will still say you can't harm another person bc of this, there'd be some leniency in some cases bc of this but it's not the norm de lege lata.
If this wouldn't be so, we'd be in constant fear (of others harming ourselves ) & being thrown back to the stone age or I don't know where......
Your belief would be the classical excuse of a male offender, good thing we as society in the western world have evolved past this point!

Just had to add this bc that rape=instinct really shocked me. Wanting to've sex for pleasure or reproduction is a human instinct; Rape as well as Murder is a crime against a human, period......


Rape is such a serious & sensitive topic, nobody'd deny it's a cruel crime IRL. But to condemn fictional stories & think ppl aren't able to distinguish btw what's a crime irl & what's a fantasy story just wouldn't get in my head. I can't see how this could change the values of/regress our society & rape will be seen as normal [IRL]..........


PS: I too was raised in a conservative household (country side), in my environment there were no openly LGBQT ppl (but I do had some sex experience w/ women myself). You'd say it was a uniform society (and booooring), no 'out of the norm' allowed, strong resentments not unknown.

When I moved to a city I was astonished w/ all the different ppl living here (never saw a rastafari or black/asian ppl before fe), I made some gay friends & knew there're ppl fighting for LGBQT rights. Ofc as I was reading newspaper/watched the news since I was young I knew about LGBQT but they weren't visible, gay was even a swearword.

If I wouldn't have'd the experiences & started reading yaoi, I can see how I maybe would've been disgusted at first & slowly I'd have gotten used to it. I maybe wouldn't see it as normal bc it's in fictional stories but I'd have gotten desensitized.
As in my country LGBQT ppl aren't [openly] discriminated [at least in the cities & bigger settlements], it isn't a CRIME to identify as/be one, whereas rape/murder is ofc a crime.

I still could make the distinction btw a taboo and a crime, I belief as well as not seeing a crime as being something normal.

"Japan saw a total of 601 reported rape cases (including incapacitated rape) in the first half of 2018 -- 26.8 percent more than during the same period the previous year, National Police Agency (NPA) data has shown." - the mainichi.jp

Also , from all the comments everyone just says " you cant differentiate between reality and fiction " ;

Reality” is “that which exists”, and fiction exists, so fiction is a subset within the set of all things that constitute reality. Therefore, because fiction is part of reality, it cannot be differentiated from reality. - Richard Stuart Dixon

obviously rape is gonna exist. Come one, crime's exist. But japan has less rape crimes than any other country, knowing how much their media dosen't censor stutt.


Reality and fiction are too different things! If you are blantly gonna ignore this then you seriously got a problem. You keep overlapping them. Its the 90's thinking again, violent games make murderous and violent children.

Quoting from someone is not gonna make your point any more validating. It's laughable becuase it's biased as well, they teach you this in school.

Specifically taking a qoute that sees your argument only, ignoring the opposing writers who think differently makes your argument less reliable. Eveyone thinks differently. Quoting from one person is laughable. Now now, don't start quoting others that think like you either. these quotations aren't science. Why? Because there is no CORRELATION. Now if you are gonna come up with data science saying the crime is much higher than previous years. I got news for you buddy, our ever growing population. Take that into account first.

Just becuase someone input their philopshy of life does not mean it can't not be revoked and evolved. Hence this isn't science, hence we have countless philopshers with different theories (writers are philopshers btw) . You really need to start differentiating between reality and fiction.

You also liked to completely ignore my point on bestality and only write about something that adhere to making your point more valid. Just because someone reads bestality doesn not mean thy will act on it . Like those countless children who watched beauty and the beast. Same goes to rape. Violent video games does not make child more murderous and violent. Then all of anime should be banned. These are all treading on the same line.

Btw you qouted wrongly! Oopsie daisy. Ficiton is part of reality ? Well if you go to the first page of the scanlaton page, you can see that it says UNREALISTIC POTRAYAL OF RAPE. Stop preaching and ANYLYSISING about something that is potrayed unrealistically. You could at least preach about it if it was in any way realistic. A lot of yaoi is realistic it talks about impotency and toxic masculity. But rape is POTRAYED UNREALISTICALLY and therefore should not be analysed at all. But no, you completely ignored it

Like I said, your point has so many fallacy

More than previous years because of ever growing population. These aren't directly correlated at all. A correlation is when A causes a change in B

I don't see you bring up statistic on media causing rape crimes. Why? Because there is none. There are too many other factors evolved !!!! So therefore it is bullshit

*involved becuase of spell check

if you are going to include qoutations that adhers to your basis, I will include something that a lot of people agree on

TRANSLATED VERSION OF ARTICLE:: https://nichegamer.com/2016/03/01/japanese-representative-refutes-un-suggestion-to-ban-media-depicting-sexual-violence/

ORGINAL JAPANESE ARTICLE http://wmc-jpn.blogspot.com/2016/02/blog-post.html?spref=tw


https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=108177 (unreliable source but shows opinion. and this is the place where you should really preach. Not here sweetheart.)

These articles take the views of a MAJORITY. not a qoute from one single person like you tried to validate your point. This argument is against the UN. One of the highest leading human rights activist.

In the end, the UN complied

Sweetheart, you need to start differentiating between reality and fiction. You are the fucked up one on here.