Lol

Um... You didn't. I think you didn't understand the point of the second example, but nvm xD

Ah yes, this is what you say when a person actually has a life to tend do, unlike some people. Especially when I went to visit my uncle's grave.... Some people just lack this emotion called 'empathy' y'know?

Point 1 wasn't to say that enjoying sex = consent, you made this argument earlier and i responded to it then... To see my response to this already failed argument look at page 1 in the topic under my response that starts with "you saying that i'm saying 'it's not rape if he enjoyed it'...".

You still aren't understanding the 1st example... The fact isn't that you should UNDERSTAND that you're permitted to enter if i open the door for you, the fact is that you ARE permitted to enter whether the person understands that or not... I decided on my own to let you in and held the door open for you, i permitted you to enter. Whether you take me up on the offer because you don't understand is irrelevant. I've already explained this, but you just don't grasp anything i'm saying. The same applies to the seme fucking the uke, the uke didn't make any attempt to fight back and looked like he enjoyed it so the seme kept fucking him, he had no reason to believe anything was off because NOTHING WAS WRONG AND THE UKE DIDN'T MAKE IT SEEM LIKE ANYTHING WAS WRONG EITHER, the seme acted on the uke's wordless consent.

As far as the "initial statement being about sex and me going off topic", the initial statement was "people are misunderstanding the sex scene as rape, it's not rape because the uke actually consented wordlessly based on this: insert the in-manga evidence i went over earlier" to which you responded "there was no consent, he never said it's okay out loud" so OUR topic has been about whether or not you have to speak consent aloud. I'm not "going off topic", not that it matters since you don't need to stay on topic to make a point about said topic... i'm explaining to you that just because the uke didn't say "yes, i consent to this sex" doesn't mean there wasn't consent because consent doesn't need to be spoken aloud. I've already broken down the definition of consent and showed you that you can "permit, approve or agree" wordlessly, it is fact that you DO NOT have to speak consent aloud, i have literally given you examples. The only argument you've made against this is "well, it doesn't NOT say you have to speak it aloud" To which i responded "what the definition DOESN'T say is irrelevant, the definition is there to give a clear, straight-forward explanation of the topic and as such is meant to be taken at face value". You cannot argue that consent needs to be spoken aloud anymore, i've already debunked that argument and since consent can be expressed wordlessly, because it's an emotion and not a sentence, and based on the in-manga evidence i gave earlier you can clearly see the uke gave consent wordlessly.

You brought up the uke saying no again... You're like a broken record. The word no in itself can be applied to many different situations and used with different expressive meanings. You're saying that when the uke was saying no that he was feeling raped and asking the seme to stop the sex by making this as your argument, but the in-manga evidence i gave earlier shows otherwise. What i and that other guy said in response to this argument was "he isn't saying no because he feels raped, he's saying no because he has a dick being put up his ass for the 1st time and he doesn't know what else to say...". Here's the evidence i'm referencing btw: 1. The uke was saying "it feels so good" in his head during the sex which shows he physically enjoyed it and "how DO i feel about him" which shows that the uke was considering his feelings for the seme, not something you would be thinking if you were being raped. And 2. The uke and seme are talking normally RIGHT after the sex, the uke shows ABSOLUTELY NO signs of trauma or fear towards the seme.

Before you respond, please read through this carefully and make sure it doesn't already answer what you're about to say, i'm tired of having to explain literally everything i say in response to you when you inevitably misunderstand the meaning.

You're contradicting yourself in the third paragraph -_- Once again, it was actually your failed response.... A no is still a no, no matter what. The circumstamces don't matter, if you're pushing yourself on a person with him saying no countless times. You can't seem to understand this.....

You still don't seem to understand, but there's no reason to explain to you.... The message isn't getting over to you anyways :/ 'Wordless consent' SURE LIKE TRYING TO PUNCH HIM WHEN HE TRIED TO PUSH HIM DOWN? YEAH WORDLESS CONSENT LIKE SAYING 'WHAT ARE YOU DOING YOU BASTARD?' AND 'DAMN IT STOP!' SURE, SURE. It doesn't matter if the uke enjoyed ANY of the sex the moment he shows that much protest idk what else you can count that is if not rape.

'You cannot argue that consent needs to be spoken aloud anymore, i've already debunked that argument and since consent can be expressed wordlessly' with your 'facts'? Sure honey, you can think whatever you want. That was reffering to sex from the beggining and you took it to totally different places, like comparing gicing a fucking apple to giving consent before sex. The 'evidence' you pointed out is bs, refer to the second paragraph for a better explanation.
Point 2 : BS. Just straight up BS. Have you even read the fucking manga?

And I'm tired of you completely ignoring the most important part of the manga, but you don't seem to stop doing that, so why should I?

Gn btw~

Forgot this, about the last part of the 4th paragraph, there's a name for this phenomenon ; romanticized rape. Making rape a romantic experience, and adding some comedy to match the mood. It's done a lot in yaoi, so I'm a bit surprised you haven't heard of it yet.

Also, I'm a fan of this overused trope, no matter how disgustingly rapey it gets (づ￣ ³￣)づ

I know the what romanticized rape is... I've been reading yaoi for years now. If you want to just close your eyes to everything i said and just say "nuh-uh!" without giving any backing to your claims feel free, i've already addressed and debunked all your points so i don't need to say anymore. You were done too, right? I believe you mentioned a few times that you're bored? Gn too~

..... This whole post is just running away from what I’ve said. I’ve presented you with ACTUAL IN MANGA EVIDENCE and you just brush it off with a full post about consent.... When really, this was and still is romanticized rape. You’re ignoring what it is, and with ‘evidence’ from this FICTIONAL manga, you’re telling me that my definition of consent is wrong. I can’t argue with you properly if this is what you’re going to do....

Backing off when there’s actual evidence? Gee, and I thought I was ‘the closed minded’ one. You’re once again lying to yourself. Read my post properly. Don’t act as if what you presented before was evidence. I’ve backed ALL of my claims about the rape in the yaoi. If you still think that this isn’t rape after yourself knowing that the uke tried to PUNCH the seme before fucking him... You’re a sick fuck is all I can say.

I'm not addressing your "in-manga evidence" because you took it completely out of context and lied too. The uke never tried to punch him "before the sex", he tried to punch him because of a sudden kiss and when he said "you bastard", it was to say "you bastard! give me back my pants!" while blushing... You have no problem with taking little bits of text from the manga and cropping them out of even their sentences to try and back your point, try again, that part doesn't show the uke was feeling raped, if you read that part of the scene in it's entirety you see that it shows the uke surprised and embarrassed due to the sudden lack of clothes. Hell, if anything the part of the scene you're pointing out goes more with my side of the argument, if you review my very 1st few messages one is "was it rape? or mild shock?" and another is me agreeing with the other guy that the uke saying no was just because of said mild shock rather than feeling raped as what else is he going to say? This is another one of those issues where if you were reading my responses you would have already had the answer. I can't argue with you if all you're going to do is pull bits of text out of context and pull parts of the manga together that aren't connected (the punch in response to the kiss had nothing to do with the sex, the seme hadn't even started trying to fuck him yet... You actually tried to make it seem like the punch was IN RESPONSE to the sex, more specifically you were trying to make it look like the uke was attempting to fight him off... the two aren't connected...). Its dishonest and kind of desperate.

You’re calling me deseperate But look at yourself.... You’re still completely ignoring another part of my post and calling me ‘dishonest and kinda deseperate’. Now to your ‘arguments’ ; I don’t know how you see t, but this is all sexual assault. Kissing him without any consent stripping him without any consent.... It’s all in the same category as rape. That’s not a reaction of shock, that’s a reaction of ‘wtf, why are you stripping me’.

I'm not going to go into the definition of shock with you, if you want to see why you're wrong you can look at the definition yourself and consider "hmm... What parts in the sex scene exhibit signs of shock rather than the trauma associated with being raped against your will".

I’ve actually been cut off by my own phone when writing that, sorry for the spelling mistakes. That’s how I know you don’t know what romanticized rape is...

As i've said, there is a difference between consensual spontaneous sex and rape, If you want to see a real example of romanticised rape read Hatsujou where the uke actually makes an effort to fight his assailant off, calls it rape AND shows signs of trauma before inevitably falling in love after the manga gives a convenient reason for the rape.

Gosh you.... Yes, there is a difference. You seriously don’t know the meaning of romanticized rape...... That’s rape represented fairly and ONLY AFTER IT does the uke fall in love. It’s romance as a result of rape. Romantisized rape is : the author making rape a comedic/romantic experience, showing no trauma on the victim afterwards. IT IS RAPE, but it’s represented in a romantic light.

Small question, every yaoi sex scene that is represented like in this one, you don’t consider rape?

I'm not going to humor you any further... You aren't even giving an argument at this point, just mistakenly acting like i don't understand what romanticised rape is... The reason this isn't "romanticized rape" and is instead "consensual spontaneous sex" is because there was no rape involved as i've already proven. If you're just going to get all salty because you have no argument and insult my intelligence then you can leave.

‘As I’ve already proven’.... You.... You haven’t proven anything.... I’ve brought you actual arguments and you’re just brushing them off? I’ve brought you a genuine question, but that’s your decision if you want to answer it or not.

I would like to clarify one thing ; you indeed DONT know the definition of romantisized rape. The example manga you’ve brought has represented rape as what it is ; NON CONSENTUAL SEX. After that, the plot builds up and they fall in love. Let’s take another example ; hidoku shinaide. The mangaka shines a BAD light on their first sexual interactions, not taking it lightly, and even having the seme apologize for what he’s done in later chapters.

The true definition of romantisized rape is ; showing rape in a romantic light, and not showing what actual real life consequences people could get from getting raped. Some authors even add comedy to the after sex scene, just to make people like you doubt what truly happened.

Now to the truly most baffling part of your reply ; ‘get all salty because you have no arguments’. You mean the countless arguements I’ve given that you’re ignoring? I’ve told you the true definition of romantisized sex, and you didn’t try to counteract it. Is that what you do when you’re deseperate and don’t have any counter arguments?

‘Insult my intelligence’. So your yaoi knowledge is something that you take pride in? Lmao you haven’t read that much mangas, based on your profile at least.

I haven't had my profile for long... You haven't given me "countless arguments" either, and all the arguments you've brought forward i've countered... Also, that is just your interpretation of a concept only applied on sites like these... You didn't give me the "true definition" because there isn't one... Romanticized rape is something we manga readers came up with to describe a very common scene in yaoi... There is no definition, but there ARE some clear cut signs you can look for to see if the trope is there, those being:

1. The one being attacked tries to fight back, and no, just saying "no" isn't fighting back as in situations like in this manga it can be seen to clearly just be sex moans. Well, except by thick people.

2. The attacker acknowledges that the victim doesn't want the advances and continues anyways, the acknowledgment can be in their thoughts or out loud.

3. The victim exhibits signs of trauma usually during, but definitely after the rape and has a fear towards the attacker following the rape and fears being alone with him.

And 4. Convenient plot devise or exposition explains the rape away and victim falls for the attacker.

These are the "guidlines" everyone looks for when identifying the trope, since none are apparent in this manga it's not romanticized rape, it's consensual spontaneous sex. Also, specifically what have i not responded to? I keep telling you i've responded to all of your arguments and you just keep saying "you're ignoring my questions", it's concerning as it makes it seem like you're making things up to try and make it seem like i'm running away or something. I'm still here~

You haven't. It's that simple. Are you just that thickheaded? YES, a very common scene in manga, that doesn't have anything to do with this manga. There's rape represented IN A BAD LIGHT and rape represented in A ROMANTIC LIGHT. You're confusing two different things yaoi tropes.

1. HE DID FIGHT BACK. This is something you just can't accept for some reason. he fought back countless times and you're just ignoring it.
Now, here's another misconception. That's part of rape fetish. There are other manga where the word 'no' during sex doesn't appear. It appears specifically on these kinds of mangas, ROMANTISIZED RAPE MANGA.

2. That just straight up happened. The smirk on his face after he was clearly rejected is that.

3. And this is where you're confusing romantisized rape with another trope ; victim falls in love after being raped. Trauma, shows actual realistic traits and reactions related to rape, and then magically falls in love with the culprit. The trope we're talking about is making rape a romantic scene, adding comedy, and making people like you think 'oh it's just spontaneous sex.' Please learn the fucking difference. Those are two different tropes that shouldn't be confused.

Yes, but those are 'guildlines' for a totally different trope. Please learn the difference.
It's not consensual if the person tries to punch you after a mere kiss, curses at you after you WITH NO CONSENT strip him, and then fuck him while he's still saying no. I need to repeat the same things over and over again..... It doesn't matter WHY he said no, it doesn't matter if he actually liked it, AS LONG AS HE WAS AGAINST HAVING SEX, AND DISPLAYED IT OPENLY MULTIPLE TIMES THERE IS NO CONSENT.

Because you are.... I presented an actual question, I presented the definition multiple times, and you give me a totally unrelated definition.... And don't mention being passive aggressive about me trying to leave the conversation (page 1), and then doing it yourself by ignoring most of my previous post and making a pathetic reply, not addressing the issue at hand at all. Oh boohoo, your intelligence got insulted, not like you did it before.