this made me highly uncomfortable, not bc it’s bdsm but bc the bottom tells him it hurts...

I like the picture of them at the beginning of their relationship and then five years later. I was glad to see that it had the happy ending, long term relationship. Sadly, English is my only language, even though I love listening to Japanese. I think it's such a beautiful language.
I can't wait for the updates. From the pictures, the dom is cool, calm, caring and loving... It's very well drawn and the BDSM scenes.... meow!

I know the conversation's long finished but I just wanted to add something about the sub's consent and rape. The thing is the sub was able to remember the consent he gave and recognized it. He didn't contest that it was a drunken consent. The dom slowly introduced him to what he is about to do next. Then in the second chapter, even if the sub says no, the Dom is again doing things step by step introducing what he is doing. Insert joannac's explanation that Dom's responsibility is to read the Sub's language.

In rape, the rapist does not wait. The victim retorts, violently and the rapist will not take a second to wait or listen to the victim's plea. A Dom does.

Just dropping my comments. The conversations are all very insightful. Thank you guys.

To be honest, I was very conflicted when I was reading the Manga, be it because of the other instances where I'd read of BDSM *EHERM* on Wattpad, but I kinda picked up a few things already mentioned above. Following this thread had helped cleared up some, and made me interested in what happens in such a lifestyle......

I've been following this thread for a few days now, since the latest chapter was posted, and I'm interested in how such a lifestyle works. Would you care to share with me?

You shouldn't have to strongly protest to make your partner stop. They should check on you and respond to you if you're protesting at all

According to joannac's replies, it's all part of the gray area of BDSM vs vanilla. I think that is why Shizuru started with stripping and binding Akihisa right away so he can gauge how much Akihisa would resist. I don't think Akihisa is completely innocent, he had an idea that it was BDSM when he finally became conscious. It is natural to resist something you don't understand, which is why Shizuru does things step by step, slowly as possible, waiting for Akihisa to respond after he initiates something after Akihisa remembered his consent. If Akihisa did not want to participate, he would not respond to Shizuru (I mean like how Shizuru waited for Akihisa to blow him instead of forcing his dick on his face/mouth). Thus, his protests does not hold weight because he should not have responded.

I may be wrong but Shizuru was demonstrating two things: 1) dominance and 2) pleasure in pain. If he stopped every time Akihisa resisted, the intention would not reach or resonate with Akihisa. If he truly could not fathom what was done to him, he would immediately call the police after getting home and would not come back.

Don't get me wrong. I do agree that Shizuru was wrong to manipulate and bully Akihisa into accepting his consent and going ahead by setting Akihisa up, ready for the session, without discussing what they are about to do first. Nevertheless, his protests were part of the play and Shizuru made it "clear" through non-verbal cues that it is, thus Akihisa obliged at the end (Akihisa's flashbacks in latest chapter). After all it is the whole point of BDSM. How did he made it clear? Again correct me if I'm wrong, those who practice this, giving rewards in the form of pleasure after the pain gives the message that it is all part of the play.

I blabber too much in my previous reply that I think I digressed, I am truly sorry.
Anyway, the point of disregarding his protests is to drill in the concept of dominance on Akihisa and to do that Shizuru strips whatever respect and agency Akihisa had to impart a full experience of BDSM to him. The experience and the concept of dominance will not be as effective if Shizuru minded every protest Akihisa had. Yet, it is still different from rape since like I've mentioned in one of my replies in this thread, rapists do not wait and read the situation at all, compared to what Shizuru did.

You got it! In the 3rd chapter it becomes clear that Akihisa was scared because he was doing new things. It never crossed his mind that he should call the police. A lot of times people run away from new things because they don't know what to expect. Well written response Penny in Heaven!!! Thank you for this!

Thanks! I also appreciate Akihisa's friend. He pretty much laid out how abusive Akihisa went through and even suggested to have the incident reported BUT because Mr. Friend didn't have first experience of it and BDSM in general, he relied on Akihisa's judgement. The experience is different from how his friend's description sounded thus he couldn't completely agree with his friend. And because the characters are actually mature ( YEY!), Mr. Friend accepts Akihisa, who is seemingly very interested to the new door that was opened for him.

It was a good scene to support Akihisa accepting, though bewildered, the BDSM world, thus recognizing the consent he gave (because we keep coming back to this issue).

Me too! I love how Mr. Friend (I can't remember his name either) is just so laid back. 'Ok, you don't want to call the police, then you must not have hated the experience. Surprise, you're a masochist!' lol. I think Akihiso was surprised at his friend's conclusions and it was like a wake up call to him. "oh, yeah, I didn't think of it that way" kind of thing. Once Akihiso said that he was hadn't thought about not going back to Shikuru and was instead thinking about how nervous he was about meeting him again- that is what made his friend go, oh ok, it's all good then. And yes, finally! Mature characters! No acting like 10 year olds, no airheads, no 'poor me' syndrome.

Not trying to sound arrogant or snippy or anything like that, but it amazes me how many people see the world in black and white and don't realize that there are shades to everything. Or they get so upset when someone disagrees with them. It's almost like no one is entitled to their own opinions. I can't wait for this one to update. I keep rereading the English versions then looking at the raws and trying to figure out what they are saying based on the actions... so far I am totally off base with it. lol.

The author was smart. If s/he wrote Akihisa as if he was victimized, oh boy the story would have been completely different. I just don't understand why people keep on victimizing him! Akihisa did not feel that way nor did his friend insisted on him that he was taken advantage of. None of the characters and in the story were going for a rape story yet readers insist that it is.

And yes, not only black and white but never moving on from a single perspective or angle. They stay at the drunk consent but didn't consider what and why Shizuru asked Akihisa when he was sober. It would actually all make sense if that scene was considered plus of course insights from those who do practice this like you.

Funny how I was accused of the same thing in Saezuru. All because I helped explain the story, which s/he claimed s/he didn't understand. My initial comment wasn't much of an analysis but they were upset that I was restricting them from analyzing the story. It was so irritating. Sorry for the rant. It's just that I rarely see things in black and white as you say and I rarely analyze a story outside the given information or scenes from the story so that my arguments are always supported by the story itself. Interpretations beyond the story come in later.

I agree with you. They jump to conclusions based on one chapter and then are bound and determined not to change their mind, even though it's obvious in the rest of the chapters that, yes, it was consensual!

Rant away! Those of us with open minds who actually question things and don't make snap judgements based on too little information need to stick together. Thinkers Unite! LOL.

How can you restrict anyone from analyzing a story? Don't they think for themselves? You came up with the perfect arguments for this one. I read those and I was like, damn why didn't I think to word it that way?

I just can't understand why they are getting so upset over a simple fictional story. If they don't like it, or it upsets them, then they don't have to read it. No one is forcing them. It just seems like a waste of effort to get so emotional over something that doesn't affect them in any way. Oops, there I go on my rant.

This is so true! No one is restricting anyone about their analysis. I felt so conflicted whether I was really doing that when it was never my intention. I feel stupid that that was how I spoke. No matter how I explained myself, they found something wrong with me or what I said. I stopped replying because that person was very insistent that they were being attacked. I can't with those people. I felt exhausted.

I admit I can get stubborn but it's when people are being narrow-minded about something. I feel it's unfair for the characters and most especially to the authors if people refuse to see the picture from another angle and being critical about what they read, esp those that are actually worth being critical about.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but if it doesn't help the story at all, just move on and find a story they really like. And the "waste of effort to get so emotional" I am laughing because that is so true! There are those that are worth crying or getting upset over because that is how the author intended it but some are not, like this one. The story doesn't actually invite you as a reader to be so emotionally involved in the story. Plus the issue of morals, almost every single time. Like come on.

They probably just got angry because you didn't agree with them. We live in a society where everyone expects everything to be handed to them and to always get their own way. But that's another rant I could go on about forever. You are entitled to your own opinion and to express that opinion. You put them on the defensive because they realized you were right and they couldn't admit that they were in the wrong. lol.

I can understand complaining about some things, the art, or the writing style (where one of the characters yells all the time- that just irritates me so much I can't read the manga) or maybe if the plot line is confusing or missing, but to whine because they don't like where the story is going?! Really?! It's almost as if some of them think that the author is writing this solely for their personal enjoyment... (self-centered much?)

I will admit there are some that I really get into and I'm rooting for the characters or I'm hoping that something doesn't happen, but I'm mature enough to understand that I'm not the one writing this, so I don't really get a say in how the plot goes.

Yeah the morals issue... yes morals are important, especially having good ones, but not everyone does and sometimes people go way overboard with things. That comes back to the whole complaint about people expecting everyone else to think they same way they do and getting irate when they don't. If it doesn't affect me, doesn't hurt me, doesn't have anything to do with my life doesn't hurt anyone else, then why should I be upset about it? (Talking sexuality, religion, politics)

"...I'm mature enough to understand that I'm not the one writing this, so I don't really get a say in how the plot goes." - You can win an award for this.

Themes and such subjects creates good conversations and authors use these subjects to create a masterpiece of a story. But not all the time. Mostly in seinens but very few in yaoi. Some really go overboard with their emotions that they constructive and insightful conversations are thrown out of the window. At times, it takes out the joy of reading.

And yeah, you are right. There is a difference with commenting and complaining versus simply whining. And rarely you would find any negative yet constructive comments when the story is fluffy, bright and vanilla; and when you actually do, they downvote you. Well, it's the same in serious and dark ones when you don't have the same comment as the others do, esp when most are hating it while you don't. It gets crazy at times.

Oh I had to add, thank you for taking my side though you haven't really read that thread. Or have you? Anyway, thanks!

Hello, I'm just going to leave this here:
If it wasn't consensual, why would Akihisa return to Shizuru's apartment after the first two times? And it's cool that the friends all like, if you didn't hate it, it probably is a developing fetish...

Um... you're welcome. Which thread?

oh come on now, don't bring logic into it! LMAO

You don't have to it's okay. But if you haven't read Saezuru Tori wa Habatakanai, I suggest you do. It's one of the most well written yaois out there.