All the hatred and discrimination in this manga makes me so uncomfortable. There were many...

Hatred and discrimination is what gay ppl face everyday, that's we have to deal with in our life time. As a bisexual black man I commend this author for showing this in such a space. Cis straight female readers of yaoi are often extremely bias and/or homophobic so this is kind of throwing it in their faces like if you're going to read about it, at least remember gay ppl are real and not just a fetish every time u need to jack off.

Yo I don't know if you realized, but black people were stereotyped in this manga. As a black man how can you support this shit? It's somewhat racist, and the majority of that racism is towards black people.

Would you care to expand on that? I took a break from this so I don't remember the earlier chapters. So far, the most racism shown is against Asians (to Conor). There aren't really any major black characters but the few I remember were fine: the #1 Miss Teri fan, the bar/restaurant owner at the beginning. Any negative remarks about black persons were shown to be racist.

Word. I wasn't really sure how to interpret that "uncomfortable" remark in the original post, in light of how problematic the average yaoi title is.

The character names & extreme homophobia is why I suspect this story is taking place in Russia....Maybe the Ukraine.

Of course Russia also has one of the largest fujoshi populations.

Simon mentions his hometown as Van Tescosa, I don't know if that's a real place or not, but it's mentioned that it is not in the United States. But it feels like it might as well be with everything that's been going on here- the white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, how is that not like the Waf? There are evil people everywhere and while there's not a countrywide organized gang that beats and murders gay people there is an organized group that spends their lives discriminating against them and tries to make them as miserable as possible(the same group also discriminates against immigrants). Who are encouraged by politicians looking to tear the people apart for their own gain. I assume the original poster's uncomfortable comment was about the closeness of reality in this comic. And in response to the comment about cis female readers being homophobic. I can see that in some readers comments, while I see the opposite in other comments. It's so weird when I see it, it's completely hypocritical. Unfortunately, they've been made suckers by those they follow. If they have the ability to read yaoi manga, they should start learning to think for themselves. (I say this as a cis female)

It seems to be the us instead

Uh, I'm black and I can tell you black people are not being stereotyped in this manga. Sure you've got a diva, loud black woman, but in later chapters, you've got an intelligent lawyer black woman who is far from the stereotype.

You also have a kind, happy black guy in this story. You saying this shit is full of stereotypes clearly means that you haven't bothered reading this story at all.

(Please take this post as a general comment about what I've observed about yaoi readership and not about Djmeowmix247's comment in particular. I have no clear idea what Djmeowmix247 reads or anything specific about her discomfort.)

I agree with you, Seashell. My hesitation about the "uncomfortable" remark had more to do with the fact that the average yaoi title features a lot of rape and abusive relationships, for example, in many realistic ways. In fact, it is so normalised--in manga, as well as in real life--that readers often can't recognise rape when it happens on the page. They don't recognise unrealistic portrayals of how an abuser rehabilitates. There's an Ogeretsu Tanaka title here that features heavy victim blaming and an overly idealised (if not downright impossible) depiction of how an abuser rehabilitates that is universally praised on this site as a realistic and inspiring romance.

We're super comfortable with those.

Here is a title in the same tradition that refuses to present that and similar matters as normal or romantic. There is no obscuring of sexual orientation with a "gay for you" veil; there is no ambivalence in its condemnation of rape, abuse, homophobia, racism etc; and it is unapologetic in showing what impact that has on the characters. Ain't nothing about that that makes me uncomfortable. I find it so bloody refreshing lolol.

I didn't get into all that before, tho, because the original comment is pretty vague :D. It and Kazlur's response just got me thinking. I'm a cis woman as well.

Isn't the bar owner at the beginning of the store who recognises Conor from his musician days is black as well.

Even Tamara (the "diva") is framed in a sympathetic light. In chptr 33 the agency manager makes such derogatory, dehumanising comments about her, expressing surprise at how much she earns for the group. It goes some way to explaining why Tamara is so resentful and cut throat when her agency sidelined her the moment they recruited a blonde blue eyed singer with potential, despite her proven track record.

Lol. I think we're thinking on the same page here (=・ω・=)

I was also trying to reply to all these comments in one post, but that may have come off like I was just talking at you. And your right, I don't know exactly what the OP was saying, but there were times when I cried/had to put this down because of its relation to reality.

Yes, there are lots of manga on here that are fucking sick and twisted. (I'll admit, I love Finder, which is full of rape, to the point where I would be ashamed to show it to a friend and admit that I read it. (I don't know what manga you were referring to specifically, but I'm sure I've read it). What I'm concerned about when I read those manga is that it eventually makes an impression on people (especially if they were raised in a family or community that promotes victim shaming and the like) that they will become unable to distinguish right from wrong. What people don't realize is that manga's original purpose was to teach young children about society. Those books you talk about teach the wrong things, but they do so in a way that doesn't feel like learning

This comic can make people uncomfortable because it forces them to look at the harshness of reality. But most of the manga here is more like a trickster, it appears harmless because it's fantasy even though it's actually displaying horrifying behavior.

That's why you can have hundreds/thousands of people read a horrible story about rape, abuse and victim shaming, and root for the bad guy. Because it's sparkly and doesn't feel like it relates to real life.(Somewhat unrelated, but also why I absolutely hate cop dramas-they teach the masses that it's ok for cops to bend the rules because they're 'trying to do good').

Yeah we are on the same page :). Oh, Finder is one of the first yaoi mangas I read and still a favourite. I reread it pretty regularly. I'm sure we all enjoy problematic entertainment. The important thing is not to deny that it has issues, and that it's okay if people find it offensive. I find that a lot of readers here refuse to do so. They feel as if by admitting what they read has problems it makes them a bad person, which is not true. You just have to be able to identify the bad and take care not to let it takeover your real world point of view, which is not as easy as we think it is.

The mangas I specifically referred to were Sabita Yoru Demo Koi Wa Sasayaku and its sequel that appears in Renai-rubi no Tadashii Furikata. I read Renai first and loved Kan-chan's story to tears...until I read about his past in Sabita Yoru and felt so betrayed. What made it worst is that a reader in comments told me that just like Yumi, who Kan-chan abused, she was told that it was partly her fault she was abused and that's just the way life is. She broke my heart. To this day, I find it hard to read Ogeretsu Tanaka's work even though I think she's one of the best mangakas scanlated.

Rape and abuse in over the top yakuza fantasy manga like the Finder series don't bother me as much as those done in realistic settings. The line between fiction and reality is blurred because the same victim blaming that's used in manga is said to persons IRL and it causes real harm.

On the topic of those cop dramas, you make a really good point there. I hadn't thought of that but maybe that's why I don't like them anymore lol.

Yeah, it's not any different IRL. There was also racism towards asian more specifically Chinese. What's your point?

N blk ppl were not stereotyped, they showed lots of good blk side characters only the wypipo were negative characters. As a black man I support it cause it shows actually racism instead of ignoring the topic completely like other mangas, at least it has blk charas other mngs don't have nun.