@MangaSanctuary

Ça y va les pavé en français lol

- disappointing to see the language barrier has nothing to do with you missing and misunderstanding my point(s) https://www.mangago.zone/home/mangatopic/17989561/

- i love fiction and i’ll keep reading, writing, and exploring meaning in it, thank you :)

No need to apologize, take your time. Honestly I don’t have any like, deep-seated issue with this type of story or depictions of rape/SA in stories in general—I think you have to look at every story individually and how it’s going about depicting those things + why they’re depicting it to be able to determine whether it’s a “good” or “bad” depiction (in and of itself complicated because what do we mean by good or bad, are we talking about its relevance to the plot and characters, or are we talking about whether or not it’s helpful or harmful to victims of sexual violence, or something else).

So like with Jinx—I mean, I can’t intuit the author’s intentions or anything, but I know it’s…I don’t know. I just feel like the author is inconsistent I know, or at least, I THINK it’s supposed to be sort of a porn without plot and the rape and sexual assault indeed isn’t meant to be taken that seriously, it’s just some rape porn. I don’t have an issue with that, plenty of people are into that kind of thing—so long as everyone knows it’s a fantasy they’re indulging in, and they know precisely the type of fantasy they’re indulging in, and no one is in real life getting hurt, bon voyage.

But at the same time…this story does have plot, doesn’t it? And that plot relies on characterization, on the characters (at least Jaekyung) learning and growing and developing from their weaknesses and mistakes. And then we have what feels to me like clear moments of Dan experiencing sexual trauma at the hands of OTHER characters and then even from Jaekyung himself, to an extent. There also other moments/attempts at realism, I remember some other readers mentioning how well-researched the MMA stuff seems to be (I wouldn’t know, but hey, credit where credit’s due). So it just feels like there’s a discrepancy there in terms of how “seriously” it’s meant to be taken—how much I, or any other reader, am meant to factor in Jaekyung’s sexual behavior when it comes to what we and Dan are meant to be forgiving him for, if that makes sense. As opposed to an ACTUAL porn without plot where the absolute bare minimum basics would go into things like plot and characterization.

To me then it isn’t even (just) an issue of “oh, this is romanticizing rape” or whatever, I honestly think that’s a surface level objection to this story and its flaws and it doesn’t take a lot into consideration. If someone can’t stomach it and doesn’t want to read it solely based on that then I won’t fault them for it, but then I’m also like, I don’t think that person should be commenting on the story and what it’s doing right or wrong because they wouldn’t actually know and their critique would be surface level. For me it’s more an issue of storytelling. If you’re already going to include things like rape and go so far as to depict some of the trauma from that, then I think it’s just good storytelling to fully explore the implications of those things in your story—how it impacts the characters and their relationship(s). If you just throw something in your story and then don’t actually do anything meaningful with it…??? I mean of course anyone can do anything they want but to me it just feels shallow and underwhelming djdhhdhdhf anyway. My ramblings. Idk, if/when I don’t like something I try to think a lot about Why and if there’s any reason beyond just “not my taste.”

It’s like—I think I used this analogy elsewhere actually lmao. But it’s like if you’re watching a movie and the whole movie is taking place in front of this very particular door. The camera lingers on the door, characters talk in front of the door, they even talk ABOUT the door, they drop hints about something being behind it, they even open it every now and then, but only enough to slip through without us the audience being able to really see inside it. Isn’t it natural you’d get curious about the door and what’s behind it? Wouldn’t you feel a bit cheated if it turned out there was nothing special about the door at all, and the filmmaker meant for the movie to be something else entirely? That’s kind of like how I feel about Jinx. If other people don’t feel that way then that’s absolutely fine, my opinion on that is unlikely to change and I don’t seek to change anyone else’s mind on it either. My issues with the webtoon itself and my issues with some of its audience and how they’re interpreting it are two (almost) completely separate things.

Pfff exactement comme il a fait la dernière fois, il est allé traduire mes commentaires, bah vas-y traduis ça et fous-moi la grape "occupe-toi de tes fesses", c'est pas à toi que je parle alors casse-toi.

Oh ptn, mais bon courage pour lire, ce moulin à parole à tellement de choses à dire... Pour ma part, j'ai pas que ça à foutre, je m'embête plus à lui parler en anglais vu qu'il va traduire, ce crevard à soif de dialogue

Faut parler à des personnes réelles Akaito, parle à ton psy, fais-toi des amis, je sais pas moi... Sors un peu.

Ok, vu que que je n'ai pas compris ce que tu veux dire (selon toi), résume-le-moi une phrase. Si tu m'écris des pavé, je lirai pas. Spis direct et tourne pas autour du pot. T'as façon d'écrire fais que je me désintéresse vite de ce que tu dis, contrairement à certains.

Yes, because unlike you, I actually have some interest in what people are saying…I translated both yours and MangaSanctuary’s messages because I want to understand. This is still my thread, after all. I don’t mind if you continue speaking in French, whatever’s easiest for you. I’ve said as much before. I’ll just do my best to understand and ask for clarification where necessary.

Damn I didn’t know you weren’t a real person. ChatGPT huh? Just like that other person…

Creepier than thought XDDD u translated MangaSanctuary's comment too just coz it's your thread XD naaah u shouldn't

Shiki, this conversation has spanned multiple different topics, and like I’ve said, they’re complex and require thoroughness and nuance. I wouldn’t even begin to know what to summarize and I don’t have any desire to dumb down things for people who don’t have any interest in actually having a dialogue. I’ve already tried with you. Like you said, we don’t see eye-to-eye, you’re not reading my shit cause it’s too long and complicated for you, whatever.

Amuse-toi bien et évitons de nous reparler, en tout cas compte sur moi.

People who are interested can read, people who are not can fuck off. Simple.

Now I'm back just coz you said that (≡^∇^≡)/

And ppl who can't simply enjoy this manhua can fk off also, r?

Anyway yeah you’re right I suppose there’s no convincing someone like that to think differently. I guess it’s just hmhmhm for one I personally think it makes your experience more fun, worthwhile, and complete when you really think about any type of art you’re engaging with, but that might just be me and my cohorts lol. Like absolutely I understand reading, watching, playing things just for pure fun and entertainment, and of course I do it too. And there is of course lots of art out there that’s meant to be pure dumb fun.

At the same time I think it can still be fun and meaningful to comb into even those things we take to be pure fluff and entertainment and try to understand what they’re saying. Or just make shit up for the hell of it, why not. All artists put a bit of themselves into their works, it’s unavoidable. And to put yourself into your work means to put your thoughts, feelings, experiences, biases, opinions, etc into it…some authors do these things on purpose, others do it completely unconsciously. Most end up doing a bit of both. There are multiple video essays on YouTube analyzing Twilight for a reason, you know? Or let’s take something perhaps a bit more comprable, 50 Shades Of Grey. I’ve not read a single Twilight book, nor have I read or watched any 50 Shades Of Grey, but those two series are just supposed to be the same type of…nonsensical taboo romance as Jinx, right? Yet there’s lots to say about them.

I don’t know though, I guess it also makes me a bit…sad? Or disappointed, maybe? To see this attitude of ALWAYS just checking your brain out at the door when it comes to art/fiction, or the attitude that it’s completely frivolous to consider the sociopolitical implications any given piece of art/fiction might have. Or yeah, just…more ambiguous(?) things like what a piece of writing is saying about themes like love, loss, grief, revenge… Yes maybe for Jinx it’s something more worthwhile to do but, again, artists put themselves into their work—those things worm their way into their stories without them even meaning to. And this doesn’t even take into consideration those stories that ARE still fictional, fantastical even, that very directly and purposefully comment on those types of things. Like I don’t know, so many fantasy writers end up creating and exploring some kind of racism or discrimination in their worlds…isn’t it worth thinking about that?

Who says I don’t enjoy it?

I said to SIMPLY enjoy it, without questioning the universe

Why?