Food for thought and a bit of a rant and discussion starter

This is another thing which I kinda find funny. Usually you can gauge how interesting or memorable a character persona is by their names. I remember agiros, Ewans, even Zazies name but I had to look up the other tops name (sato). Honestly satos entire persona is, how dare you be mean to me I kill you wait I can’t- OMG I LOVE YOU. I literally didnt even see the internal conflict I saw with zazie in him. It feels like a bit of a shame to not have a more complex bland of thoughts or personalities which makes him stand out to Ewan and in turn the audience.

I think it's different because Agiro is related to Ewin's dad and was rooted in and throughout his childhood. Plus also, I think Ewin has already come to terms and is fully aware that GENERALLY most beastmen act in a specific way, meanwhile Agiro has been integrated with humans for a long long time seeing as he was under Ewin's father for years, therefore the treatment is different.

Furthermore, I can imagine that Agiro probably did consult with Ewin about being his pet, but from what we've all seen, Ewin does not care about being top dog, meanwhile all the bestmen do. Agiro probably reacted negatively toward Ewin about it but Ewin was just content with the way it all was, and Ewin probably understands that Agiro just wants to have some kind of reaction out of Ewin who always takes shit quietly.

TLDR
Ewin separates Agiro from Zazzies and Seto because Agiro has long been integrated with humans as well as has been part of Ewin's childhood as a counterpart to Ewin's father meanwhile Agiro and Zazzies are just typical beastmen who had a childhood and backstory that Ewin could fully read through and understand.

I definitely understand where you are coming from with Agiro, it’s a great point. But I still think Ewans attitude towards the two beastman makes zero sense. I don’t think Ewan has necessarily ‘known’ the attitudes of a beastmen until the actual chapter where both him and the readers are told that yeah beastmen are instinctual you gotta just accept it. (It’s also the only scene we see Ewan recounting when he was being stuffed from both ends, an act after which we do see Ewan being visibly upset and heartbroken- it got to him) but the very next chapter he’s back to his usual happy happy self. That’s the part which doesn’t sit right with me the most.

Also when it comes to the actual act of rape I think there is something quite human about the way the two tops go about it- sure we understand that the actual act can be due to them needing to be active but them forcing Ewan is very much a power play, they do it specifically because they want to gain power and dominance over him. This is why regardless of how much action they want they don’t do it with each other. It’s purely to show him who’s the one with control, this means the psychological damage intended is practically what a human rapist goes for- power and dominance over the victim- meaning that Ewan should be traumatised just the same. He is human, there is psychological trauma, but because he’s been told one chapter “you’re powerless they're stronger they’ll do it so accept it” he’s suddenly creating reasons in his head to excuse any negative traits that they possess. It’s very much a “what” situation for me. On a side note, I also think the reason I’m having difficulty separating Agiro from the two tops is because like you’ve said Agiro has been amongst humans for far longer than the two so he stands in a different podium for Ewan however I as a reader, did not see this.
If we’re comparing, from the actions and thinkings we’ve seen so far, Agiro is very much the same as the two tops, he is very much still beastmen. He is both hungry for power and dominance and he wants to be the top dog; the aggression and trickery behind his actions are also the same as the two(planning to kill Ewan once they’ve reached the top spot) the only human difference I see is that Agiro is willing to share his spot with Ewan whilst the two tops originally didn’t, but then as they spend more time with Ewan they also decided that “sure we will share cuz we love you”. I’ll stop rambling now but I hope it came through why I have this conflicted understanding of their relationship. It’s just not making any sense to me.

I also just wanted to add a bit to my reply on this- Personally in my head, the two tops being more instinctual is a much more terrifying trait. Humans can be reasoned with, a wild untrained beast cannot. Regardless of how much I accept that lions are majestic and they will only attack you if you intrude in their territory, the attack isn’t made any less traumatic. I think Ewan should have been much more cautious when it came to the two, and much less forgiving. The only thing we’ve gotten from Sato until the change, is “glare, glare, trying to kill you but can’t”. And from zazie sure we get the sad regretting confused looks but Ewan doesn’t even see those it’s just us the readers and sato. So to Ewan it should also have been, “force, force, want to kill but then tamed for some reason.”

You went over really good points and I want to reply to them all. Tbh i didn't think id ever discuss yaoi with anyone because for me it's usually just brainless reads LOL

For your first paragraph, I want to go over two very key points
1) this one may be a bit obvious, but Ewin being constantly walked over and how passive he truly is as a character
2) why he accepts being passive but also how he views responsibility and his duties

I think a big point that I felt the author made and many other characters make is that Ewan is constantly walked over and pushed around. He grew up that way and is willing to take it silently. Although the people around him have protested for him to take credit for what's his or to fight to be the actual captain instead of the vice captain, he is content with what he has. More than him just being aware of beastmen attitude, he is complacent. He is visibly upset at first, but more than just accepting it purely because they are beastment, he accepts it because they have become his responsibility. In the same vein of him undergoing training (his brother made a point about how no matter what Ewin went through, he never complained), participating in the military, doing whatever people expect him to do, he will "take care" of the beastmen. His attitude toward beastmen is not just because they're beastmen, but his beastmen and therefore his responsibility. (Again, he carries this attitude toward all things related to his responsibilities, whether it be beastmen or humans, if they're his responsibility, he will take care of them). We also see this point being driven especially when he refused to approve of his half-brother's proposal because it would cause many of his own men to die.

This next paragraph kind of just goes back to why Ewin is so insistent about being responsible for what is his
This isn't super relevant to my point for ur first paragraph, but it was stressed that he has a fear of abandonment. He is constantly saying things like, as long as I am a worthy pawn, they shouldn't get rid of me. It then goes to him making sure he maintains his perfect image. In the beginning of the manga, his half-brother is also ridiculing him and implying that Ewin would not be able to tame his beastmen. And then later in the manga, it is also implied that Ewin getting to the point of taming his beastment/developing a relationship with them, would just add to the list of things that Ewin does better than his brother (hence why they gave Zazzies and Seto a stimulant to cause a stir).

For your second paragraph
I entirely do agree with your point, Ewin's reactions are WEIRD. Him excusing absolutely everything that is done to him is just a really toxic trait that most yaois have in common where one of the characters just takes everything without a single complaint. I do think that your point that Zazzies and Seto's goal to traumatize Ewin is a really good point, but again, Ewin is so willing to accept ANYTHING he literally could not care. If his body mattered to him, why else would he keep being in the military, why else would he surround himself with people he absolutely could not get along with, who scarred him? It's because what matters most to Ewin is not being thrown away. And what is kind of crazy (which is how many stockholm syndrome relationships form) is that he has found more comfort in Zazzies and Seto because they need him.

Also, not to be devil's advocate or anything of the sort, but I don't think the author ever hid Zazzies and Seto's intention for why they wanted to take advantage over Ewin. It was clear they wanted to establish dominance over Ewin and humiliate him. That's just how they grew up and those kind of animalistic behaviors were only pushed more upon them by growing up in the arena, which Ewin seems to fully understand and accept.

Now for your third paragraph. I think Agiro is different from the other two tops purely because Agiro and Ewin have a history (that has yet to be explored in the manga). Agiro gave Ewin that scar on his hand and is seen willing to break and destroy things precious to Ewin (his mother's pendant). It is clear that Agiro does not actually care much for Ewin. I would have said Agiro respected Ewin, but he really does not, I think he'd only come to respect Ewin if Ewin began fighting for what is his and fighting to be Agiro's partner.

Again, Zazzies and Seto were raised in that arena where beastmen were exploited, so I think them resorting to rape (obviously bad) is natural to them. That's why neither the two tops nor Ewin seemed to really lament on it. Meanwhile, we see that the two tops would never have destroyed Ewin's pendant, instead, they wanted to protect it.

Okay and lastly just regarding the weird throuple relationship they have, I'll put it to you simply that it's just one based off of weird trauma bonds LOL

The two tops never were taken care of, they were never shown any affection, any tenderness, they were always just ridiculed and exploited. Meanwhile Ewin makes extreme efforts to understand them, be there for them, and accept them.

Ewin, who has an extreme fear of abandonment, is felt needed by these two tops. One point I didn't really talk about in all of this is also that, the two tops probably are also breaths of fresh air for Ewin purely because they are not connected to the complex and difficult life Ewin has lived so far (they are very simple minded and go, if A, then B kind of mindset).

It kind of gives stockholm syndrome relationship, but that's just how it is written. I wrote a lot but yeah i'd love for u to reply

All great points, but again, Ewin seems to really not care about what happens to him. It's very self-destructive, but that's just his nature. And honestly, I felt differently while reading the manga. yes Sato and Zazie were violent toward Ewin, but it seems that they become well-behaved very quickly and also followed Ewin's words quite quickly as well. They are only more instinctual because they grew up in the arena and ngl JUST got to the military base, but they'll become integrated with humans very soon (which Ewin probably also can imagine)

Heyyy, thanks for replying to my long ass thought bubble. Honestly I’m very much a brainless reader when it comes to stories too, I think for this one at the time I had just finished catching up with a rather wholesome story (our sunny days) and when I came to this the switch in characteristics and the way Ewan was going around acting kinda irked me so I got curious if others shared the same thoughts. But the more days that pass, the more I just go like “meh who cares” but I am really enjoying our chat discussion so coming back onto the topic at hand-

Having read your first three paragraphs of reasoning I think I’d have to just go “ah I see”. I am usually a reader who sees fictional stories from a rather detached point of view unless it’s been written really well. With Ewan I understand him as a character that is amiable due to the deeply rooted insecurities and self worth issues that had stemmed from his childhood like you’ve mentioned, but only because we had been told so. When it came to reading the actual chapters the compilation of absolutely everything else that’s been happening, it felt like his past was only sprinkled a little here and there.but the way he’s reacted to the two tops happened from the very beginning even when we didn’t see this past fully flashed out.

Someone had commented that they didn’t think the two tops even understood what the act of rape entailed.

Wait ignore the comment above I was brainstorming and then accidentally clicked send, let me actually write down in a way it makes sense then resend. I don’t know how to delete comments

Okay so this is my actual reply

Heyyy, thanks for replying to my long ass thought bubble. Honestly I’m very much a brainless reader when it comes to stories too, I think for this one at the time I had just finished catching up with a rather wholesome story (our sunny days) and when I came to this the switch in characteristics and the way Ewan was going around acting kinda irked me so I got curious if others shared the same thoughts. But the more days that pass, the more I just go like “meh who cares” but I am really enjoying our chat discussion so coming back onto the topic at hand-

Having read your first three paragraphs of reasoning I think I’d have to just go “ah I see” since that’s a brilliant point. I am usually a reader who sees fictional stories from a rather detached point of view unless it’s been written really well. With Ewan I understand him as a character that is amiable due to the deeply rooted insecurities and self worth issues that had stemmed from his childhood like you’ve mentioned, but only because we had been told so. When it came to reading the actual chapters and the compilation of absolutely everything else that’s been happening, it felt like his past was only sprinkled a little here and there until the very recent chapter. In the very beginning few chapters Ewan comes across as quite a bit in control, whether be in mind or attitude, towards the two; he says his dos and don’t even if only a front so that kind of contributed to the forgetting of “oh shit he’s self destructive”.
Yes we see everyone mentioning how he’s such a pushover and that he never complained no matter what they threw at him, but he still had clear dislikes- one of which are the actual beastmen themselves. Idk if it makes sense what I’m trying to say, I guess I mean like it is very easy for me to forget Ewan’s individualism and personality as a whole because to me, like you mentioned, he kind of blended into the stereotype of the standard bottom in a toxic bl where they accept everything without a single complaint. While I do appreciate the author actually trying to give this trait of his a reason and background, it was very easy to forget for me.

For the part where you mentioned that the author wasn’t really trying to hide the fact the two were trying to humiliate Ewan, sure, but they hid the fact they planned to “kill” him and the part that Ewan understands them and accepts them- I still find myself asking why? He originally had a dislike for the beastmen (I presume all thanks to Agiro) but even after being raped and having a flashback with the lines of zazie calling him an idiot or something coming into parallel with the likes of Agiro (again, the primary cause of trauma against the beastmen for Ewan, and he’s seeing him in causation to Zazie) calling him an idiot, he’s all of a sudden all accepting? With the way the chapter was laid out it felt like yes we’ve established that Ewan has past trauma which causes him to desire to be wanted by others- so yes he picks up the two who say they “want him” —- then yes we’ve established Ewan dislikes beastmen due to a past encounter with beastmen in a negative light——- so yes the disappointment and reaffirmation of the idea that all beastmen are animals and he should not have given these particular ones the benefit of the doubt come to fruition upon being raped

Yes the parallel between the present and past is established but no- there is no lead up.
It’s left hanging with Ewan being chill after having one talk with the doc which goes something like “it’s what they do, to dominate (and since rape is that psychological and animalistic instinctual desire to dominate anyways, he basically said “so yeah, they rape) and then Ewan goes ah G fo real? Aight bet. As if he did not just have trauma flashbacks to Agiro with the way he got treated by the two. Maybe it’s because we haven’t seen Ewan interact much with characters who aren’t directly attached to his cause of trauma but he stands his ground against his fellow squad mates who want to accept him and push him to be more than what he sees himself as, but when it comes to these two feral gremlins he’s as malleable as putty. It’s weird but then again I don’t know if at this point, I’m just pushing myself to delve too far into this or not. But essentially it’s been dubious with the two and Ewan being such a yes man made me have war flashbacks to every other dubcon premises.

I wanted to talk a bit about the parts where you explained “Zazzies and Seto were raised in that arena where beastmen were exploited, so I think them resorting to rape (obviously bad) is natural to them. That's why neither the two tops nor Ewin seemed to really lament on it.” Along with “The two tops never were taken care of, they were never shown any affection, any tenderness, they were always just ridiculed and exploited.” The later statement along with the first of the former, show understanding of a past that we haven’t really seen. I understand having ideas of how horrible an experience for them must’ve gone but I am a firm believer of show not tell and like I said in my very first statement, we have been TOLD this but not really shown. Trauma is not something that seeps through their actions, we see no recollection of former memories or hardships like we see with Ewan, or any explanations for their actions that’s directly caused from that trauma. Everything they do is sort of explained away as “they are beastmen, it’s what they do” so I think that’s why it’s also a bit weird to me for exactly why THEY are attached to Ewin. Because he yelled at them? But if they suffered wouldn’t others have yelled at them too?

And then comes the part where I’m still being stubborn as heck- I don’t understand why Ewan does not lament on it (the rape).

There was a thread in the comments where someone wrote jokingly “the two dudes be like only WE are allowed to rape him” to which someone else replied that they didn’t think the two tops even understood what the act entailed and I ended up going “That’s the thing tho, I don’t think they needed to understand the concept in a human way for it to be bad. That’s why we call rapists monsters and animals because the idea of rape is so detached from human principles. It’s a carnal desire to dominate and take over control”like some kind of wise old monk.

But to come to a point, if it’s something natural to the two beastmen because they are animals basically, why is it not unnatural for Ewan, someone who’s been raped regardless of if it’s by humans acting like animals or actual animals? And especially when it’s been established he hates these animals in particular. I wanted at least some kind of consequence or lead up to this quality in his attitude towards the beastmen apart from just introducing Agiro. I guess to me it just feels more like an “average bottom who’s badass everywhere else except for when he’s being poked by the top”trope than an actually trauma based reaction. I think I’ll just wait for the newer chapters and actually see the dynamic between him and Agiro be fully fleshed out as, like you’ve said, we still have yet to see that.

But tldr I find the writing weird as we’ve established that although Ewin has a need to be needed and be useful he is very particular in which people he projects this towards. He doesn’t do this when it’s related to his brother directly as we’ve seen by the strained mutual salt relationship between the two, nor Agiro, possibly due to their horrendous undisclosed past. But then why does he excuse the same mirrored behaviour of the two tops who display a parallel to Agiro- maybe not all the time but initially, and why does that act not lead on to have any consequence? He stresses after the assault, talks to the doc, asks if every owner experiences this nightmare, gets challenged because the doc mentions him explaining to his brother that he couldn’t do it, gets angry at the two for being loud and almost damaging his necklace, encounters Agiro (who has parallels now to the two as all three has caused Ewin trauma) then gets all cheery when the two come and say something like“don’t let him intimidate you” It could be just the wonders of trauma and me not getting it cuz let’s be real, me be real dumb sometimes, but it’s just not a natural flow or direction in which I though it would originally head.

Anyways this has been so long that even I don’t know what I wrote in the beginning and middle bit and I probs said parallel way too many times. All in all I just want you to know that I understand your explanation of the idea of trauma bonding and attachment that has formed, I just find it to be a bit lacking in explanation and therefore a point I can nitpick at cuz I find this debate too fun. Honestly I am enjoying the story regardless of all the oofs I have going on about it.

But thank you for coming to my TED talk. Lemme know your thoughts and maybe we can write a novel together one day.
also please excuse my ramblings and English and paragraphing skills.
ADHD and poor understanding of grammar is a deadly combo.
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Hi again, while reading your response, I think what you mainly had an issue with was how poor the writing is, and I'm not gonna say it isn't bad cuz it really is, but I think with lots of these kinds of mangas, as much as we want it to be show not tell, it is very much tell not show. The only time Seto and Zazzies' childhood is really displayed is when they are holding onto each other desperately in a box, so I think it is indiciative of some kind of harsh and strained environment they grew up in. I think, while yes, they probably have been yelled at before, it was in a manner much different than Ewin's. Ewin has reprimanded them, but in a very gentle parenting way, and Seto and Zazzies probably meant no one has ever yelled at them in a way where there was no malicious intent behind it.

Also one point that I feel like was important that you did not seem to respond to (unless it just went along with Ewin's yse man personality) is he has a DEEP need to uphold ALL of his responsibilities, some of them being the two beastmen. I know originally it was shown that Ewin disliked beastmen, but again, these two beastmen became his own responsibility. If he was humiliated by them, then he could not tame them. If he was killed by them, he could not tame them. There were many things leading up to that and as I said in my previous response, taming beastment was a sign of honor (that even Ewin's brother was scared about him doing). And Seto did go up to Ewin when he was asleep saying he would kill Ewin but Ewin fr does not GAF about himself... he straight up said, "okay, but why? Talk to Zazzies." So yeah, there is that poor writing, but overall, there is not much to be taken from this story in the end.

TLDR LOL
the story writing is garbage and you can't expect much but we still be reading it ╮(￣▽￣)╭

Hey, dang I’m just surprised you actually read that thesis up there. Yeah I think it’s probably just the writing and the generic toxic bl traits that I have the irky irks from. The thing about the yelling makes sense, it just sounds very cliche to me which again does not mean it’s a bad thing. I just had a moment.

In terms of the thing with Ewan needing to uphold ALL of his responsibilities. To me it came across as slightly different, sure it felt like Ewan was a man who really did not want to disappoint and gain approval from the family that was a part of him but he was definitely not a part of- and that in turn spread to his overall attitude towards others.
But it didn’t necessarily feel any more obsessive than say any of the other soldiers on duty, Ewan may be a bit more paranoid and a bit more insecure but I don’t think he had any mental note to be excellent in things for the sake of responsibilities and excellence but more so because he thinks doing good means not being abandoned from that title which he’s running after as a part of this side of the society. His responsibility of the beastmen was very much an emotional one as we know the other beastmen from the rescue were probably put into some sort of protection or other type of facility and therefore the only obligation I found in his actions towards the two was a moral one(and maybe later a romantic one as he began to get attached- again, very quickly). I also didn’t really interpret the act of “taming” a beastmen as a honour thing. I think the brother being pissed is more of a “oh he can do this but dad chose me!” jealousy than anything super honourable as that’s not really a thing that’s been mentioned verbally. The only beastmen we’ve seen apart from the two that Ewan has impulsively chosen to take ownership of is Agiro and he was more of a partner than a pet. Or atleast in his mind but I think the father saw him as a partner too since he did want to give someone worthy of being his equal to him, however selfish that decision. So the dad never “tamed” or owned Agiro.

Honestly yeah, I complain but I still eat this shit up as soon as it updates. (╯°Д °)╯╧╧

I think I viewed some parts differently because how I read the manga, it was a sign of nobility to be able to have a beastman partner. That's why Ewin's father passing down Agiro to the half brother mattered so much. And I thought it was emphasized (again this was my perspective and i read the manga quite late at night) but they wanted to sabotage the development of Ewin and the other two tops relationship. 1) Agiro tried to blame the two tops for destroying Ewin's cherished pendant 2) Ewin's half brother wanted to give the two tops stimulants and 3) there was a lot of talk about breaking Ewin and the other two beastmen apart. I feel like it kind of goes back to domination and submission. When beastmen are known to be stronger than humans, to have beastmen on your side as a human provides you with honor. And yes, while it's not actually taming them, when a beastmen chooses to become partners with a human (someone objectively weaker than them) they are choosing to integrate into the human world and therefore become "civilized" / "domesticated".

Also, I did feel that Ewin did prioritize his responsibilities highly. Yes, he wanted to prove himself and show that he was a useful "pawn", but he does know how to say no (not to his own body though..). For example, he refused the proposal of his half brother because it would entail many of his own men dying. I know it's just his half brother, but I would like to think that even if his father had asked for the same proposal, he would still decline because those are his men's lives on the line. Again, not the best writing, but yeah this is how I viewed the manga.

I see, yeah that makes sense. I guess the way I read it, I interpreted it the other way. And because I interpreted it as Ewan taking care of them because he was the one who said yes due to emotions getting the best him and so abandoning them kind of parallels with him being abandoned too- I think I was a lot more harsher when it came to the way things were going, it felt like he wasn’t doing the best at making sense basically and I didn’t like how it felt like he didn’t teach them any repercussions or you know act like a human with psychological damage but still pushing through it because he wants to connect to themrather than a standard “yes you can do no wrong my top” bottom. He was in a higher position of power, and I did judge his mellow yes man attitude because of it.

My initial thought of saying the development does kind of feel like it’s a thing because authornim wanted it to be more so than it being a natural ignition still does stand. Because regardless of its him wanting to do his best cuz of psychological reasons or emotional reasons, he kinda was very much a reactive source rather than an active source with things happening TO him rather then him taking active actions in teaching them or taming them. What I mean by this is how he goes limb when they do their sex thing, how he doesn’t argue when they were ranting with the other squad members, with everyone being more accommodating to them- maybe it’s because ya know beastmen are hella strong and they don’t wanna cross them but it just feels like a very stationary relationship. It only gets pushed forward by all the shit Agiro does and so I don’t really understand why they get attached to each other to such a strong point so quickly, it’s not the most natural to me. BUT, outside of that, with everything you’ve said I do see the way you’ve interpreted and I can’t argue against that necessarily unless I want to continue micropicking. And I don’t really wanna keep doing that I’ve come to kind of a “aurghhhh it’s a dang story bruh why am I still debating”. So I think this will be my last pointer in terms of laying out a point. Thank you for keeping up with my discussion until now. It was good, although a bit cumbersome, but that’s on me for being naturally a “ah but” er(๑•ㅂ•)و✧