You can't deny biological sex which is the basis of opposite and same sex attraction

Na jieun January 4, 2025 5:03 pm

Nice story, I love how green flag the couple is, but I hate how the author portrays their character Satoshi as a straight man when he is obviously bisexual, but denies it because of the homophobia rampant in Japan.
Denying the importance of biological sex is beyond delusional.
The whole "I am not attracted to the same sex but you" is so fucking stupid and delusional.
Sorry Satoshi, you're bi but just can't accept it because of the homophobia and misogyny that go hand in hand together

Responses
    lemonkun January 4, 2025 5:43 pm

    I get you homophobia like this in BL in general is so annoying because it's not isolated to this manga, there's so many of them in this same vein
    Yes you only like one guy! So you are bi at the very least. Does a straight guy who has liked only one girl in his life deny he's not straight?

    じんし January 4, 2025 7:43 pm

    While I agree there's a trope and a systemic lack of acceptance in most cultures, this response is equally problematic. You are outright projecting and lashing out at this one character/story because you're frustrated with the genre. Sure... there are stories and people who don't want to accept bisexuality as a thing, but that doesn't mean there aren't people who are heteroflexible, and people are justifiably consider themselves straight. Again, I agree there's a problem with the trope and there's a genuine lack of proper representation in sexuality- especially where bl is concerned. Your concerns are very valid. Still... you shouldn't so firmly strip Satoshi of his identity because you feel you know better. That kind of dismissal and projection is not okay.

    Na jieun January 4, 2025 8:30 pm
    While I agree there's a trope and a systemic lack of acceptance in most cultures, this response is equally problematic. You are outright projecting and lashing out at this one character/story because you're fru... じんし

    I'm not projecting or lashing out on Satoshi, I actually still appreciate him + the story because it's fluffy and there is not rape and any other forms of sexual offences romanticized.
    I just expressed my annoyance over some tropes such as "I am not into the same sex but you are special", again and again, denying the importance of biological sex is beyond delusional.
    I don't think Satoshi is homophobic or a bigot (not even the author, though I don't know them personally, but I assume that they are a decent person).
    Also, how am I stripping Satoshi from his identity since dude calls himself heterosexual? Heterosexuality, white people and men in general have power so they can't face hate (just in general. Nothing to do with the manga).
    Anyways, thank you for your insight (genuinely)

    Na jieun January 4, 2025 8:32 pm
    I get you homophobia like this in BL in general is so annoying because it's not isolated to this manga, there's so many of them in this same vein Yes you only like one guy! So you are bi at the very least. Does... lemonkun

    Lol right. Nothing against the author and Satoshi. I still appreciate it because it is cute and healthy, and I assume the author is nice.
    I just expressed my annoyance overall "I don't like the same sex but you are an exception" delusional mantra.
    That's like denying gravity and earth being round

    Peltoperlidae January 4, 2025 9:00 pm

    Your phrasing is not great either. "Denying the importance of biological sex?" To some people biological sex is not important. He is obviously demi or pan or something else. And I agree with the other person's comment. You can't make that decision for him. That is very much stripping him of his personal identity. He probably doesn't know the alternatives to gay besides straight. All he literally said was that he didn't want to be considered gay because he does not consider himself gay. I understand the problem you're stating and I see it prevalent in other manga, but not this one. He has every right to say that he is not gay.

    Juk January 4, 2025 9:13 pm
    Your phrasing is not great either. "Denying the importance of biological sex?" To some people biological sex is not important. He is obviously demi or pan or something else. And I agree with the other person's ... Peltoperlidae

    I agree.

    じんし January 4, 2025 9:21 pm
    I'm not projecting or lashing out on Satoshi, I actually still appreciate him + the story because it's fluffy and there is not rape and any other forms of sexual offences romanticized. I just expressed my annoy... Na jieun

    Direct quote of your response- "Sorry Satoshi, you're bi but just can't accept it because of the homophobia and misogyny that go hand in hand together." You just stripped him of his identity and labeled him as you saw fit.

    Juk January 4, 2025 9:29 pm
    Direct quote of your response- "Sorry Satoshi, you're bi but just can't accept it because of the homophobia and misogyny that go hand in hand together." You just stripped him of his identity and labeled him as ... じんし

    Yep, agree.

    lemonkun January 4, 2025 9:30 pm
    Direct quote of your response- "Sorry Satoshi, you're bi but just can't accept it because of the homophobia and misogyny that go hand in hand together." You just stripped him of his identity and labeled him as ... じんし

    I don't wanna come off as rude, I just want to understand better, what is his identity here?

    I want to understand how this bl was any different from the others that use this trope of "I don't like men, I only like you, a man, therefore, I'm not gay"

    Peltoperlidae January 4, 2025 10:02 pm

    I have more of an issue with the ones that insist they are 100% straight, rather than the ones that insist they aren't gay. There is a whole suite of queerness beyond gay. There are more than three options when it comes to sexual identity. Gay is generally defined as sexual attraction to people of one's own sex. People implies more than one. His argument is that he is not attracted to other men at all. I assume he is demisexual or something along those lines, but it doesnt really matter what I think. I do think in other bl's, the characters often try to tell themselves or others this line just to convince themselves or because they don't want to admit they are gay for whatever reason, but in this particular case I truly believe he is only attracted to this one person. And usually those other bl's are problematic in other ways also.

    Plus you have to remember that sexual identity can be fluid over a person's lifetime and it is up to that individual to make that determination. You cannot assign sexual identities to others and expect them to abide by it. That is no different than if a bisexual person falls in love and marries someone of the opposite sex and everyone around them starts saying that they aren't really bisexual. That is no one's decision to make except for that person at that point in time.

    じんし January 4, 2025 10:39 pm
    I don't wanna come off as rude, I just want to understand better, what is his identity here? I want to understand how this bl was any different from the others that use this trope of "I don't like men, I only l... lemonkun

    I have no aggression in this response. I'm genuinely just trying to answer your question. He never really defined his sexuality. He just said he's not gay. That's true. His main attraction is to women. Liking and choosing Keita doesn't change that. People can be bisexual, demi, or heteroflexible among other non-gay and non-straight identies. The trope is technically not wrong, but it's so heavily used, it seems like a cop-out. There also aren't many stories where characters identify as bi, demi, or heteroflexible so the lack of proper diversity in sexuality in bl stories is seriously problematic. The concern I voiced wasn't so much that there isn't a problem with the trope or that this story is any different. It was with the redefining of his sexuality. It's no one's place to do that- whether they are characters or real people.

    じんし January 4, 2025 10:42 pm
    I have more of an issue with the ones that insist they are 100% straight, rather than the ones that insist they aren't gay. There is a whole suite of queerness beyond gay. There are more than three options when... Peltoperlidae

    Thank you....

    Peltoperlidae January 5, 2025 12:47 am
    I have no aggression in this response. I'm genuinely just trying to answer your question. He never really defined his sexuality. He just said he's not gay. That's true. His main attraction is to women. Liking a... じんし

    That is an excellent response.

    Na jieun January 5, 2025 2:32 pm
    Your phrasing is not great either. "Denying the importance of biological sex?" To some people biological sex is not important. He is obviously demi or pan or something else. And I agree with the other person's ... Peltoperlidae

    Replying to the 3 of you except lemonkun since they didn't add another input and didn't rely on post modernism theories that have no basis with the real world and biology.
    Denying biological sex that is the basis of same and opposite sex attraction, and the root of homophobia and misogyny and sexist gender roles is beyond delusional and stupid.
    That's like denying gravity and earth being round.
    We don't live in Steven Universe's word where fantasy and imagination exist and the other characters are not even humans to begin with.
    Facts remain facts.
    And sexuality is fluid, not sexual orientation.
    And bisexuals being with the opposite sex doesn't stop them to be bisexual, but unlike homosexuals and bisexuals choosing to be with the same sex, they don't have the same experiences.
    Queer theories are themselves homophobic, racist and sexist.
    Pan is another label for bisexuality

    Satoshi is bi but can't accept because of his homophobic and sexist country.

    Na jieun January 5, 2025 2:36 pm
    Your phrasing is not great either. "Denying the importance of biological sex?" To some people biological sex is not important. He is obviously demi or pan or something else. And I agree with the other person's ... Peltoperlidae

    Yes, he has every right to say he is not gay since he is attracted to women too, but he is in a committed relationship with Keita because he is attracted to him romantically and sexually. So yes, he is bi.
    I don't have a problem with him not calling himself gay, I just find the whole "I am not attracted to the same sex but you are an exception" fucking stupid and delusional.
    It is fine to reject their same sex attraction because of their environment, but they should not be delusional to deny the importance of biological sex

    じんし January 6, 2025 2:03 am
    Yes, he has every right to say he is not gay since he is attracted to women too, but he is in a committed relationship with Keita because he is attracted to him romantically and sexually. So yes, he is bi.I do... Na jieun

    I'm very curious as to why you are so fixated on this bisexual label. Why everyone non-straight and non-gay must identify themselves as bisexual. I'm also curious if your stance applies to homosexuals who've slept with the opposite sex. There's plenty of people who've had sex with the opposite sex- for all sorts of reasons. Even formed families with them. They eventually reach a point where they identify as homosexual. Do you discount their identity and say they are bisexual too since they've slept with the opposite sex at some point? Are they too a victim of society as to why they can't define themselves as bisexual and define themselves as homosexual??
    The biggest issue I have is the "fucking stupid and delusional.." You can't speak to Satoshi. He's a character. Fine... But that's all the more reason why you shouldn't be lashing out the way you are. You're not just insulting him. You are insulting anyone and everyone who doesn't define their sexuality to your preference. Why are you reducing everyone who doesn't view their sexuality to your standard as some victim of society and misogyny? If he doesn't want to label his sexuality, he doesn't have to. No one has to. It's one thing to offer a conversation- a dialogue where thoughts can be shared and an understanding of a different view point can be reached. And again, Satoshi can't speak, so it's easy to say you can't do that. But if Satoshi was a real person, would you still be speaking like this? You are talking to us like this so I'd say you would and it's a very toxic and entitled thing to do. You don't know the sexuality of myself, the other responders, or anyone else reading this. You have no idea what people have experienced in their life to get them to where they are now. A whole bunch of non-straight people are seeing this- a vulgar and dismissive stance that if people don't define themselves the way you see fit, not only are they wrong, you've already decided why they are wrong. Who made you law and judge?
    Now, as I said before, you have valid points and concerns. There are some people who may be confused... There are definitely people affected by societal standards. I would hope you find a less toxic way to offer them guidance if they were open to it. But that isn't true for everyone. As far as your universal bisexual label- here's food for thought. Do you acknowledge the difference between Vegetarians Vegans, or do you reduce vegetarians to people who can't admit they are okay with animal products and label them omnivores? Some people experiment with sex the same way people sample foods and eventually make a decision on their identity. Some never make that decision. Other people just change. There are exceptions to every rule out there. Your view point is valid, but it doesn't apply to everyone.

    じんし January 6, 2025 2:46 am
    Replying to the 3 of you except lemonkun since they didn't add another input and didn't rely on post modernism theories that have no basis with the real world and biology. Denying biological sex that is the bas... Na jieun

    I really think you are misusing the term biological sex. I've done some reading on it trying to understand you better. According to sites I've looked at including the CDC, NIH, Canadian Institutes of Health Research, Southern Africa Litigation Centre, and The Council of Europe, biological sex is the different biological and physiological characteristics of males and females, such as reproductive organs, chromosomes, hormones, etc. Gender is the socially constructed roles, behaviours, expressions and identities of girls, women, boys, men, and gender diverse people. Now yes, while I agree there are people clearly born homosexual, heterosexual, or bisexual, there is not a biological law that this applies to everyone. At least not that I found. Why? Simply because there are tons of people walking around with genetic mutations of all kinds. Even if there was a known sexuality gene, it doesn't mean it would universally apply to everyone because not everyone would have normal one. It might be mutated or missing. People are born with both sexes. People are born missing a chromosome and only have an X. People are born with extra chromosomes- XXX, XXY, & XYY. The very foundation of human structure has anomalies. There's no way sexuality doesn't.

    Na jieun January 6, 2025 5:07 pm
    I'm very curious as to why you are so fixated on this bisexual label. Why everyone non-straight and non-gay must identify themselves as bisexual. I'm also curious if your stance applies to homosexuals who've sl... じんし

    Well, this was such a dishonest reply and you felt to logical fallacies by using emotional manipulation and putting words on my mouth by relying on rethoric.
    There are only opposite and same sex attraction, and of course, there are the attraction of both sexes.
    Homosexuals means people attracted to their own sex. Nothing more, nothing less. If they slept or dated with the opposite sex it is because of social pressures, or because they did not know they are homosexuals due to their environment.
    Nothing complicated about what I have written. I find it ridiculous how you imply that I am intolerant to views that don't align with mine when you are disingenuous af because of my original opinion.
    Of course, you are free to think differently and I don't think you are annoying, but there is some hypocrisy in your words where you preach and preach.
    Let's just agree to disagree. And oh, I am free to criticize other's works even if I enjoy them. I can enjoy religious conversation despite not being one.
    You can't change your sexual orientation unless you get hypnotized because of conversion therapy.
    And holy shit! Are you really comparing vegans and vegetarians no different than religious people to same and opposite sex attraction?

    Na jieun January 6, 2025 5:12 pm
    I really think you are misusing the term biological sex. I've done some reading on it trying to understand you better. According to sites I've looked at including the CDC, NIH, Canadian Institutes of Health Res... じんし

    You are the one who is misusing words. Sexuality is not the same as sexual orientation. Sure sexual orientation is a part of our sexuality, but one is unchangeable unlike sexuality. For example a straight or gay person can enjoy vanilla sex, and later enjoys bdsm. But sexual orientation is different.
    And gender is synonymous of sex until academicians and theorists Bastardized and hajicked the words for their gains, especially easily influenced kids and teens and broken souls.
    What are fluid and flexible gender roles and expressions, unlike gender who is unchangeable.
    Also, biological sex is the root of homophobia and misogyny, so how can one deny it huh? That is like denying gravity and earth being round.

    Na jieun January 6, 2025 5:13 pm
    I really think you are misusing the term biological sex. I've done some reading on it trying to understand you better. According to sites I've looked at including the CDC, NIH, Canadian Institutes of Health Res... じんし

    Intersex people are not a sexual orientation and they don't even make 1% of this planet, though they deserve our support.