Last one The portrayal of the feelings after being SAed is pretty realistic it's mildly tr...

So because she's just a character in your screen, you'd let her still end up with her abuser? I admit the portrayal is realistic but we're saying *some* romanticized because they skimmed over that fact and only boast about ml's look. The fact that they ended up together isn't a "different story". I have personally read the novel so I'll expend further on that without my personal opinion or bias.

Bad deeds done by Matthias:

1: Coercion of Layla: Matthias manipulates and coerces Layla into becoming his mistress, exploiting his power as a duke and her vulnerable situation.

2. Sabotage of Kayla's engagement: Get interfered with Layla's engagement to Kyle Etman, ensuring it cannot proceed and isolating her from a potential source of happiness and independence.

3: Emotional Manipulation: Matthias employs fear, guilt, and intimidation to maintain control over Layla, often disregarding her autonomy and feelings.

4: Threats of violence: As the power imbalance continues, he uses his position of power to intimidate and threaten not only Layla but also others who might assist her in escaping his grasp.

5: Undermining Layla’s Independence: He actively works against Layla’s attempts to escape or establish a life away from him, ensuring she remains dependent on him.

6: Another coercion and forced relationship: Matthias coerces Layla into a sexual relationship, using his power as a duke to manipulate her into becoming his mistress despite her initial resistance. She is not given a genuine choice in the matter, and he uses emotional and physical force to keep her compliant.

7: isolation: Matthias monitors Layla’s every move, dictating her actions, clothing, and social interactions. He treats her like property rather than an autonomous individual, controlling every aspect of her life.

8: Using Her Vulnerability Against Her
Matthias preys on Layla’s vulnerabilities, including her fear of being abandoned and her need for security. He exploits her trauma and lack of resourcefulness to force her into compliance.

9: No Respect for Boundaries
Matthias disregards Layla’s boundaries, pushing her into situations she is uncomfortable with. His desire for control overrides any respect for her personal space, autonomy, or emotional needs.

10: Using Her Body for His Own Satisfaction
Throughout their relationship, Matthias treats Layla’s body as a tool for his own gratification, showing little regard for her emotional or physical comfort. His treatment of her is self-serving, using her for sex without considering her desires or consent

11: Pressuring Her into Staying with Him
When Layla tries to leave or escape, Matthias forces her to stay. He uses guilt and threats to prevent her from leaving, making it clear that if she does, there will be dire consequences

12: Making Her Feel Like a Victim of Her Own Choices
Matthias constantly places the blame on Layla for their situation, making her feel responsible for the abuse she suffers. This gaslighting tactic makes her question her own sense of reality and belief in her right to leave.

13: Forcing Himself on Her: There are instances where Matthias physically overpowers or corners Layla, ignoring her discomfort or hesitation, which constitutes sexual assault.

Possibly good things he'd done:

1: Protecting Layla: Despite his controlling nature, Matthias ensures Layla’s physical safety and shields her from external threats, albeit often for his own reasons.

2: Acknowledging Layla’s Importance: Toward the end of the story, Matthias begins to recognize the emotional harm he has caused and shows remorse, though his actions to rectify this are limited.

3: Provision of Comfort: Matthias provides for Layla’s material needs, ensuring she lives in comfort, even as his control isolates her emotionally.

4: Love for Layla: His actions are driven by what he interprets as love, and over time, he softens slightly in his approach, showing moments of genuine care.

5: Acceptance of Their Child: He shows commitment to their child, ensuring its well-being and expressing a desire for them to be a family, albeit on his terms.

*My personal opinion? His bads outweigh his "goods".*

Does he regret? " redemption arc?" Accountability? Does he face that?
•Matthias begins to show remorse and guilt later in the story, but he never truly faces the consequences of his abusive actions. The novel attempts to portray his love for Layla as "redemptive", that is why many readers including me concluded that it romanticises abuse. You're right the whole story would have went smoothly if only he had acknowledged his wrong doings and grew from his initial " darkness" but he didn't. He didn't earn her forgiveness but the story just moved on from that point. It is kinda realistic because in reality, many abused victims still end up with their abusers? Why, because emotional manipulation they'd suffered for long, gaslighting and being made dependant on their abusers didn't help either. Or being abandoned or left alone make them nervous, anxious enough to cling on their own abusers. Every story is a reality. Just because they're characters in a story doesn't make them less human, they're created by humans after all. I'd prefer the novel if they had made ml take accountability in some way, it could have went nicely like you said. We've had no problems with it but it all went South when the author didn't portray the real weight of ml's actions and gave them a rushed happily ever after. I've read many books written in psychopaths, sociopaths and abusers perspectives, it's compelling, peeking into their minds of how they see the world. I don't have a problem with that in this manhwa. I love how we can see how twisted their minds can go but we must acknowledge the fact that how the author just rushed to that happily ever after ending. It's for young adults, it's shojo after all. Just look at how some commentors including my own friend who'd read this novel, manhwa, they praised Matthias for his looks skimming past through his actions. The author gave them mixed lessons. That's all. If you enjoy this type of media, it's not a problem at all. The problem lies in failing to acknowledge the abusers actions. I'd love a good angsty media, but this wasn't my cup of me as far as I'm concerned.

°abuse and rape (sa) shouldn't be normalized even in fiction°

I read a little bit of the previous reply but didn't continue because hello? Spoilers??? I said I haven't read the novel and you saw that as let me spoil major plot points for you! thanks!
Well other than that yes I don't care because Leila is not real it's as simple as that? and no it's not normalizing rape and sa? Do you feel like it's normal after reading this? Do you think anyone else saw that and thought wow that must be how people should act? No!!! we read stories and come to moral conclusions some stories spoon feed morality some talk about experiences and thus show you the creators belief system and some are not made for that purpose at all and i believe people are intelligent enough to distinguish that? Artists should be free to create anyyyyy form of art they want uncomfortable trashy pure bullshit or a masterpiece, once you start filtering what should or should not be created you take away freedom and creativity! doesn't matter if it's my beliefs yours or the church's! We as the audience have free will and we're allowed to engage with it or not. I can't BELIEVE you're this pressed about this story hate it this much and not only do you continue reading the Manga you also read the novel? Why do you torture yourself girl what's that about?
Also considering the time period and the circumstances it's absolutely normal behavior for Mathias to be a piece of shit rapist that his actions have literally no consequences but I don't think the story is normalizing it! I think people defend it because they like the story and don't know how to express that without being accused of being rape apologist and shit so they try to justify his behavior to lessen the guilt that's been put on them by morality police here! no! We are allowed to enjoy a piece of media regardless of the themes it's like if you attacked crime thriller fans and told them they're murderers or support murder they don't!!! They like a story and the emotions they experience through that and they like or dislike fictional characters and that's all! Not everyone extends entertainment into their life!

Tell me you didn't read my whole reply without telling me you didn't read my whole reply and wrote such an eager response. People are allowed to agree to disagree. Our opinions may clash. I'm not pressed about it, you are. So just calm down and discuss this like adults. No need to be bashing anyone about it. It aldo apply to myself too.

Let me address something first and foremost, I didn't spoil any major plot point. I kept it vague to point out Matthias wrongdoings as well as not to spoil you as you've stated that you didn't read the novel yet.

Second, people literally cry over character's death, we read because we care. I won't say too much about it since as soon as we close our computers or phones, we forget about those fictional characters.

Third, I'm not saying *you* are normalising rape. I said "some people" are. Let me show you an example. Some ppl in the moment and many other people boasts about "dark" romance on many books. And it's just rape and abuse. My definition of dark romance is morally grey characters, slowburn, angst, dark elements like graphic scenes, child abuse, ect etc. Yes, it is true dark romance involves occasional rape and abuse. My definition includes ml and fl, ml or fl suffering in childhood or whatever the plot may be. But what people describe as "dark" romance is just plain fl suffering from ml's actions, rape and Stockholm Syndrome. And they just skim over that fact. Ml receives no accountability whatsoever. It's a kink and they know it.** If that isn't you, you're not people I'm referring to.** Second example is, authors(writers) not acknowledging they're putting those elements in the novel. They just skim over, like I said. It's a heavy topic they write with such lightness. **If your favourite authors isn't this, I'm not referring to you.**

*your question* Do you feel like it's normal after reading this? Do you think anyone else saw that and thought wow that must be how people should act? No!!! we read stories and come to moral conclusions some stories spoon feed morality some talk about experiences and thus show you the creators belief system and some are not made for that purpose at all and i believe people are intelligent enough to distinguish that? (You question, I answer)

So fourth, no, no one felt normal after reading that, only some with fetishes do. Your second question starts a debate. I don't think *many* saw that and thought "oh, that must be how real people should act then.". But as you could see from the tag, "shojo" which translates to "young girls or young adults". You guessed it! It's target audience is teens, especially girls. Teens are in a prepubescent age where their brain has just developed. Do you think they have enough experiences and thinking skills to distinguish that? This issue is considered small to whatever is being discussed out there but still. Many adults can, but some young adults can't. For example, many of those shojo manga we read in our youngs like "the wolf girl and the black prince" or any other shojo manga is that they're problematic. Many young girls start ro think that behaviors in intimate relationships are normal and they should tolerate it. My point wasn't even about the moral code of the novel. If you read my prior comment, I wasn't criticizing the novel for being rapey or including those elements. I talked about how *some* readers skimmed over Matthias actions and thrist for him. How the author wrote it lightly by giving them a rushed happy ending without Matthias taking any accountability. How many readers wouldn't give him the time of day if he wasn't well drawn. If you aren't thirsting over Matthias but enjoy his psychopathic character then I'm not referring to you.

*your question* Artists should be free to create anyyyyy form of art they want uncomfortable trashy pure bullshit or a masterpiece, once you start filtering what should or should not be created you take away freedom and creativity! doesn't matter if it's my beliefs yours or the church's! We as the audience have free will and we're allowed to engage with it or not. I can't BELIEVE you're this pressed about this story hate it this much and not only do you continue reading the Manga you also read the novel? Why do you torture yourself girl what's that about?

Fifth, you're absolutely right. Artists should draw whatever they want. They should create whatever they want. No one is filtering anything. Not me. Because if you read my comment carefully, I never mentioned any *artists (drawers)*. In this manhwa case, they're just drawing a recreation of the novel's content. What I mentioned was authors (writers). You're absolutely right on one thing, we shouldn't take away any form of artistic creativity from artists. That wasn't my point from the start. Yes, it doesn't matter if it's my opinion or churches but I don't know why you include the church because I'm an atheist but okay. I never said anything about the art anyway. Authors included too but the only exception is if they're writing something heavy (like rape or sa or child abuse) in any of their works especially if it is targeted towards young adults and young girls or teens, you should convey a bit of that heaviness in it. I'm not saying to not write about it. They too have creative control but writing something heavy topic with lightness is just wrong. Matthias and Layla ends up together. I don't have a problem with that. Why? Because like I said before, many abused victims end up with their abusers for many reasons whether it be financial or emotional manipulation. It's realistic, I get that. But my problem is that *some* people, probably teens with little literacy, just thirst over Matthias and even defend him saying "oh, he's a complex character". He is a complex character, yes but he's also an abuser and a rapist at the same time. Two can be true at once. **If you're not one of them, you're not included in the people I was shading.** I have no problem with audiences engaging in gore, or any of those heavy stuffs either. They have free will, might as well read whatever they want. That wasn't my point. As long as they don't thirst over Matthias and defend his actions or gloss over how Layla has suffered and simply enjoy this work which ended tragically, abused return to their unchanged abuser, it's fine. Anyone is entitled to their own opinions about their likes and dislikes. For example, I don't enjoy the work, and you do. Just as long as you don't romanticize abuse like *some* people, that doesn't include you. The thing is I'm not pressed that much about it. I just don't enjoy *some* problematic audiences and author. I don't initially hate it that much. The trope itself is rapey which I'm a victim of myself. Some people like it. It's fine. And it's not "manga", manga refers to artists from Japanese. It's either " webtoon" or "manhwa", just for correction sake. I read it thinking it's one of those ml treat fl wrong and regret it types of novels. But turns not there's no accountability or redemption at all which is not a problem in itself since as you said, authors artistic creativity but I just *personally* don't enjoy having read that. I only realized it after the ending so there was nothing I could do about it. And for the context, after that horrible experience with novel, I don't read this manhwa at all.



*your question* Also considering the time period and the circumstances it's absolutely normal behavior for Mathias to be a piece of shit rapist that his actions have literally no consequences but I don't think the story is normalizing it! I think people defend it because they like the story and don't know how to express that without being accused of being rape apologist and shit so they try to justify his behavior to lessen the guilt that's been put on them by morality police here! no! We are allowed to enjoy a piece of media regardless of the themes it's like if you attacked crime thriller fans and told them they're murderers or support murder they don't!!! They like a story and the emotions they experience through that and they like or dislike fictional characters and that's all! Not everyone extends entertainment into their life!

Last but not least, your question in itself sparks some serious debate. Does a person or a character's actions nullified and justified just because they were born in another time period? We'll discuss it here. His blackmail, coercion and sa(rape) are a crime. Cry or better yet beg is set in medieval fantasy era and setting. But there's a loophole in which how he gets away with it. It's because he's a, you guessed it, Ducal position and a duke. We could technically get away with it but it is still a crime. Just because it's a time period and circumstances, it doesn't mean his actions are less than and layla's sufferings are small. Let's just say there's a girl in medieval era who was saed by a Duke, does that make the Duke's behavior "normal"? It is literally the definition of normalization you're talking about. For example, would you say, a grandpa who is a racist and a misogynist is "normal" just because he was born in the 70s or 80s. Would you say Salem Witch trials which killed over thousands of innocent women is "normal" just because it is medieval time period? I know it's considered a "normal" behavior to manhandle a girl and power play but not in any point rape was normal. I mean "marital rape" is normalized in that era if you'd like to talk about it but still that doesn't make it less than. By circumstances, he gets away with this behavior but not at any point being a rapist was ever considered "normal", there's bribery and corruption, so if Layla were to file lawsuits against him he'd get away with it by denying it outright or bribing that jury some money or threaten them with his position, but crime is still a crime even if he could cover it up and get away with it. Like I mentioned before, him raping Layla is a story plot point and I'm not saying anything about that. Him getting away and not getting arrested is his circumstances but that's not a problem either since it's a plot point. But why do you say it's a " normal behavior ". It's not even normal in that setting in medieval. The circumstances might let him go but damn it, it's not normal. I was okay with your points until just now. What you did was literally normalization. You can like the novel and manhwa, definitely but just don't normalize it. Is it that too hard? People that just like the story yet acknowledge Matthias's behavior doesn't need to defend from anyone, like they're okay. What's not okay is people defending Matthias's actions in the guise of enjoying the novel or manhwa. We're saying *some* are being rape apologist not because of their kinks, not because they enjoyed this work. We're saying that to people who are literally defending a rapist actions. You did that just now and it disappointed me. I thought you enjoyed it simply. If they don't know how to express their likeness towards this work by not defending an abuser's actions or try to lessen their own guilts then have some media literacy. Like I said two can true at once, you can like this novel yet you could acknowledge Matthias's shitty behavior at the same time. I'm not morality police. I like a lot of fucked up media too but I don't try to justify an abuser at least. If you like it, just say "oh, it's well written", " the story is compelling, I like it". We don't blame anyone who likes this work. But just don't defend Matthias. Y'all don't have any guilt to lessen even if you love this manhwa. It's like saying, "oh, I enjoy (blank) work but I don't know how to express it without sounding like a rape apologist which I'm totally not and I must defend a rapist's behavior in the novel, just to lessen my guilt", do you hear yourself? A lot of y'all claim to love the work but all y'all do is be rape apologist, that's why we call them rape apologist. That's what they are. If they simply like this, I have no problem. Everyone is entitled to their own preference but geez, you can like the work and not defend Matthias. Just because you like the novel as a whole, you don't have to defend Matthias. Yes anyone can enjoy any type of media. I'm a horror thriller fan myself, I'm obsessed with it. That doesn't mean I don't support murderers, you're absolutely right. I don't try to justify the murder by defending their actions like " oh, he killed a girl because...", something of that sort. I like how compelling and exciting that specific murderer and his or her fucked up mind bring me, I enjoy it. Does it mean I have to defend the murderer's actions? No! It apply to Matthias case as well, if you enjoy the novel and his psychopathic character, it's alright, no one is out to get y'all, but you don't have to defend his actions just to express you like the novel. My Lord, reading comprehension and media literacy these days.

*correction* That doesn't mean I don't support murderers.

*correction again from 10th paragraph* That doesn't mean I support murderers.

I think you’re the one who’s pressed here with the long ass paragraph, blah blah blah blah. You did spoil a bit even tho it might not be a major plot.