Ik ur trying to seem like an intellectual w all this talk of censorship and it being only fiction but maybe u should look up words' meaning before using them lmao; this story isn't being prohibited or suppressed at all so how *exactly* is it censorship? Ppl in the comments r just expressing their opinions which u would think u'd support considering ur anti-censorship stance. And their opinions r right - it's gross that a grown man is "dating" (read: grooming) a minor but nobody said u can't read it so y r u so worked up? Is it bc u enjoy the story but seeing ppl ppint out the issues w it means u end up feeling guilty? Either way maybe ur the bitch that's screaming and not the others (=・ω・=)
literally a comment below was abt how this shouldnt *exist* so no, I'm definitely not wrong lmfao Do u not have reading comprehension? I wasn't saying anyone is censoring the story but that they are in support of censorship it by saying shit like "this shouldn't exist". Also what's there to criticize? fantasy explored in a fictional setting? what's wrong with it? I would understand if u were saying stuff like the characters are not developed enough" or "the story is very slow" but u are complaining abt a personal squick that U can avoid by not reading the damn story lol why read smth that upsets you and "call it out"? You knew by the synopsis what you were getting into it. U just go into the comments to do what exactly???? To say I don't like it? Sure then what the hell are u doing here? Do u not understand fandom culture that coming into spaces that aren't for U and announcing how U don't like it is just bad manners and makes u an obnoxious person? lol And then when u preach abt how problematic fiction should be erased bc god forbid poor women will be influenced..... Yeah the only bitch here is you actually.
I love how u said I lack reading comprehension but then u go and act like u can't read either lmao
1. I never said shit abt women being influenced or abt the story being erased so... what's ur point lol
2. I didn't call the story out, i was calling u out
3. This *isn't* a dedicated fandom space, it's a comment section where everyone is free to express their opinions so the whole fandom culture thing is irrelevant. Furthermore, even if this *were* a fandom space, what's wrong w pointing out the things that r wrong w the story? It annoying u isn't a good reason btw and it's not smth that makes a story exempt from criticism, esp in cases like this
4. Saying that the story depicting an adult who is their teacher to boot. grooming a child in a positive light isn't a valid criticism is just plain weird of u and be honest, what exactly would change abt the story if the ml were the same age as the mc?
5. Fantasy??? FANTASY????? Maybe for pedos lmao but this isn't just some story depicting a kink, this is straight up grooming and while on the topic of "influencing", no I don't think it will influence women but it might influence children. They'll read this romanticised depiction of grooming, and if they don't have anyone in their lives to tell them otherwise, which ppl that r targeted by groomers often don't, they could end up falling for it (and before u get all worked up, no, I'm *not* saying that reading this will result in a child being groomed, I'm saying it just makes them *more* vulnerable to the tactics used)
6. Ok, u weren't saying the story was being censored, mb ig but tbf that wasn't v clear in ur comment. Also, so what if someone thinks this shouldn't exist? Censorship is a tricky topic to discuss bc of its historic ties to oppressive regimes but a lot of ppl end up supporting censorship in cases where it could lead to harm to vulnerable and/or marginalised groups, LIKE IN THIS CASE
7. "I knew what i was getting into" - not rlly? I haven't read the story this is tied to and the synopsis is a mess, so maybe this is a sign that tws ought to be done properly. Also, if i don't like it i should just stop reading it is such a cop out to avoid criticism lmao
1. Fair, u didn't. I did in other comments. It's still related to the fact women are usually the target of these comments. Somehow no one on the internet posts reviews under CoD saying "this shouldn't exist bc my boy could play it". But Colleen hoover (whose stories I don't like for that matter) is criticized everyday bc "women will get Influenced. these rhetorics have its roots in misogyny in the end.
2. I wasn't specifically talking only about you but about everyone who makes these type of comments plus you.
3. It's an illegal manga site, it definitely counts as a fandom space.
4. Ok so in ur view taboo topics should only be presented in a bad light with a clear statement "this is bad" and u cant enjoy a fantasy in a safe fictional setting in a "what if" situation. Who exactly is hurt in these stories? It's lines on paper or pixels on screen. Adults know what is right or wrong. What u are getting at is completely mental. Take Hannibal TV series for example. Hannibal is a cannibal and a killer and yet we ROOT FOR HIM and his incredibly TOXIC relationship with Will. Bc it's drama, bc it's interesting and fascinating, bc it's fun, bc it's not real. And the show completely supports their relationship. So what now? Criticize it for showing toxic relationships? Obviously no adult would think it's okay irl. Why can't we explore taboo topics in fictional settings? It's the perfect place for it. No one is hurt. For example, I used to have crushes on teachers and was very into "teacher/student" fiction. Am I wrong to enjoy my own fantasy while being completely aware it's not okay irl? So we criminalize thoughts now or smth? U think I will go and do smth irl? I dislike kids for christ sake, u won't willingly see me next to one.
5....... children shouldn't read adult stories. This is not marked for kids. It's the PARENTS' job to monitor what kids do, not authors who write their stuff WHICH IS NOT FOR KIDS LMFAO Do u rly not see that you are basically a reactionary bringing back moral panic bc "oh my good think of the children!". If you are not able to see taboo topics as taboo then it's on YOU. If you don't monitor your kid's presence on the internet then its on YOU. Not on fiction and definitely not on random people who create it. Otherwise we have to ban fiction with murderers and video games shouldn't have violence in it. What if my kid gets influenced by it and shoots up a school, am I right?
6. what marginalized groups???? ADULTS??????????????????????? Again, are u in support of banning video games bc it's more common a depressed teen shoots someone at school than an adult gets influenced by a niche bl manga with a teacher/student dynamic lol Normal people don't get influenced by mddia to the point they do harm to others. U can't expect fiction to cater to everyone, what you need to do is curate ur space better so u don't see what u don't like. Sites are very heavily moderated now, u can literally ban and mute words U don't like.
Also, about your groomer comments, u should do more research. It's very common for predators to be in "clean fandom spaces" where it's supported that only good fiction should exist bc they present themselves as "the good guys". Meanwhile, they are the most horrible abusers. You should see if the rhetoric u are preaching is not actually bringing people who will hurt you bc they are a safe adult. Take Kyle Carroza for example.
1. Bro, pls just stop w the comments abt women. If ur arguing w me then y r u bringing up stuff that I haven't said. It seems to me that ur treating ppl w the opinion that this story is wrong as a monolith, which isn't v conductive to an actual discussion, but I digress. Either way, to address it anyway, I agree that it's misogynistic that women r being infantilised to the degree that stories geared towards them have ppl criticising them for not being morally perfect. It's a good point but violent video games did have moral panics around them and those r not the only criticisms of CH's books, just as women being influenced by this manga isn't the only criticism. The fact u keep clinging to this argument shows me u don't rlly have any others, like u know, an argument abt y u want this manga to contain grooming so badly?? I'm genuinely perplexed lmao
2. I direct u to the first part of point 1 (ur arguing w me, not everyone else who shares my opinion, and I never said that so...)
3. I didn't mean that mangago isn't a fandom space, I meant that it's not a fandom space specifically for this manga, so ppl aren't invading it and being obnoxious by commenting that they dislike the manga
4. I don't think every "taboo topic" needs a big disclaimer in capital letters that "THIS IS WRONG" or whatever ur imagining my opinion is. What I think is that things like grooming, abuse, sa, etc. shouldn't be presented as a NORMAL part of a relationship. I don't understand y u'd want these topics to be presented in a positive light to begin w or y this is "completely mental" lmao. Again, i think ur going and assuming things abt me and then trying to attack me based on those things but then ur completely wrong so to me it just sounds stupid lol. Also, I never said I had anything against morally bad characters. Like, my fav characters r complete pieces of shit objectively, e.g. the mc of myst, might, mayhem. They're super entertaining, but they wouldn't be if they were predators, which should be obvious??? Sexual crimes r a super sensitive topic for a lot of ppl, even more so than things like murder, bc of the lasting impact they have on the surviours, so they take the fun out of a story and that's not smth to mock, like ur doing. As for u saying "I'm not gonna do anything irl", yh? Ofc? I didn't accuse u of diddling kids sweetie. Ur just oversimplifing the connection between the media u consume and ur actions/thoughts; it's not u read the story and bam, now ur a criminal lmao, it's a gradual desensitisation towards these topics but ig u wouldn't care abt that since "I'm criminalising thoughts" lmao. We're not in 1984 (the book) babes. Some things r just wrong, but I never said we should jail ppl for thinking them, though I wouldn't feel safe around someone who had thoughts abt saing ppl or the like
5. Yh, they shouldn't but we both know they will and chalking it down to the parents' responsibility is plain annoying. Do u think every kid is lucky enough to have parents who give a shit or have time for them? And even if they do, it's not that easy to restrict access these days. Either way, my point wasn't "think of the children" or that we ought to have a moral panic over one yaoi manga lol. I was just pointing out which group could be affected by smth like this but obviously it wouldn't be a good solution to just make everything rated g. This kinda thing is tricky to deal w and u trying to strawman my valid concern is just immature (and before u get the wrong idea *again*, I'm a childfree person who never wants to interact w one, and not a christian soccer mum ok?)
6. "What marginalised groups?" u ask. Do u think poc or queer ppl, for example, aren't marginalised just bc they're adults? Like it's pretty clear what I meant by that so idk y ur acting like you've never heard the term. To further explain y i mentioned marginalised groups tho, say there's a piece of media where the mc is racist or queerphobic but they never have their beliefs challenged and in the end they become successful (extreme example, ik, but I'm trying to clearly illustrate a point so go w it, also, yes, u said "normal" ppl but the same kinda thing can occur w normal ppl just less extreme and also racism and queerphobia r horrificly common so). Is that ok? Would there be no harm done bc it's "just fiction"? Even though there r ppl out there who already have those thoughts and seeing someone else think the same things without negative consequences, even getting rewarded, could strenghten their beliefs or further radicalise them? Social learning theory and social influence are topics that are quite prominent in psychology but it'd take too long to explain properly so search them up and then try to argue w me if u wanna do this properly (or ask me if u can't be bothered but it'll be a long message lol)
To conclude this essay, bro ur a clown who doesn't know how to argue properly. I didn't say shit abt banning *anything* so stop acting like ur scoring a point by constantly bringing it up. Also, I didn't say kids would be groomed if they joined a fandom like the one for this manga. What i said was that the way grooming is portrayed in this manga would make them more susceptible to grooming tactics. Y is that so difficult to understand? Maybe u should take a reading comprehension course bc even when i break things down u still can't seem to get it. (P.S. sorry abt the ad hominum but get ur head out of ur ass already xoxo)
It's such a waste of time to argue with such a clown that you are.
Yeah sorry to break it to you but stuff marketed at adults shouldn't be altered to be kids friendly. It's not obnoxious to make parents responsible for their own kids. That's their job plain and simple. The world won't bend bc kids are somewhere where they aren't supposed to be.
You are blaming fiction and random people for problems that marginalized people struggle with due to governments abandoning them and education being at all low at schools. Media is there for entertainment. Not to shape every decision in your life. I'm sorry you are such a delusional person that you think a fictional romance will influence you.
Maybe it's time to get YOUR head out of your ass cause you keep bringing children into it when talking about media for adults.
Honestly this is my comment that you responded to. I can talk about whatever I want to expand on it and yes add the context that your preachy talk is rooted in misogyny as well. It was a very simple comment that criticized someone below basically begging for censorship and U come in here, mock me, call me a bitch, misunderstand the very basis of the comment to which you admitted to (ur claim that I was somehow saying the story is being censored) and go on a moral crusade in more comments to insult me some more. But I'm the weirdo and a clown here huh.
You keep talking abt psychology and then somehow completely forget taboo fiction is part of how many people cope or vent through it. But I suppose that shouldn't be a thing bc such media existing is a bad thing for the children and marginalized ppl.
Also your comment abt being uncomfortable with standing next to someone who thinks abt saing people is such a weirdo moment. Where the absolute fuck did that come from I have no idea.
I will ask again, how is your argument different from ppl blaming violence on video games? I don't think it was mentioned in your long ass essay but maybe Im wrong.
No matter how much u wanna try to deny it you are simply blaming fiction for the lack of resources some ppl might have due to poor education, bad parents or lacking government. And you are pushing that responsibility on creators who just wanna write whatever the hell they want. This media was not created to teach you about anything, it doesn't include such topics as racism to infringe on someone's freedom, it's a romance story with forbidden themes for pure entertainment. Tons of them out there and somehow people are fine. The same argument you can spin in the other direction. Do "fairy tale" romance stories teach you to be delusional abt romance? No, it's a fantasy and yet no one criticizes them for being too perfect. Because we are all aware such thing doesn't exist. Using fiction as your moral compass or an educational book is your first mistake in this whole conversation.
All in all you are vehemently trying to deny it but u do just want a squeaky clean fiction and if there is a forbidden theme in it, the story should always demonize it and we aren't allowed to fantasize about it. You say you are not saying it but you are basically saying that. You do you. I had good arguments to which u didn't respond to and just picked some phrases you wanna nitpick to call me dumb or something. But if that helps you sleep at night then that only speaks about you.
I literally said in my comment that making everything for a general audience isn't a solution??? I didn't say it's obnoxious to make parents responsible, i said that many aren't and that it's naive to think otherwise. I didn't blame fiction for the problems marginalised groups suffer, I said that the media ppl consume can radicalise ppl into being even more racist, queerphobic, etc. Look at the manosphere if u want an example. I also didn't say that it will shape every decision in ur life. Where r u getting this shit from? As i said before ur strawman-ing my arguments and then acting like ur so smart for debunking that. Furthermore, my "preachy talks" aren't based in misogyny, I never said anything abt women being influenced and that's y i told u to stop bringing it up + I agreed w u that infantalising women like that is misogynistic so what more do u want? Should i fall at ur feet and admit my defeat?? Also if someone is preachy it's u. U keep hiding behind advocating for women while defending grooming, fictional or not. I didn't forget that ppl cope thru taboo media btw i mentioned psychology so u could understand y i said that media could influence some ppl. Also, have u thought that other ppl could be triggered by stories like this. No u haven't bc u don't actually care, u just brought up coping mechanisms to try and make it seem like I'm some bad person trying to take others' coping mechansim away. My comment abt being uncomfortable around someone thinking abt saing someone wasn't a "weirdo moment" and wasn't even what i actually said; it was in relation to u saying i was criminalising thoughts, to give an example of a time when even if u don't act on it, it's still not smth that is ok to think. And again, i NEVER said I wanted media to be censored, i said I enjoy media w fucked up characters just not ones that commit SEXUAL CRIMES what abt that is so hard to understand??? The reason i "keep bringing up children" is bc u keep misinterpreting (that's my nice way of saying it) what I'm saying and telling me that i actually said smth else which is WHY I KEEP HAVING TO FUCKING EXPLAIN IT. And yh sweetie u r wrong, i did explain y my argument was different but as is evident from ur reply u clearly didn't read what i said. Another thing u got wrong, i never said fiction should be ur moral compass, I just said that i didn't want to see things like grooming portrayed in a positive light and I told u y. Finally, regarding my "wanting squeaky clean fiction" (not true but whatever), y do u so badly want this story to contain grooming? I've already asked this twice and u keep avoiding it
Agree, I understand leaving you comment but don't try to change someone else opinion, is annoying.
I'm assuming ur agreeing w the op so lemme just say, if it's annoying that *I'm* "trying to change someone else's opinion" then y can they complain abt other ppl's opinions? That's kinda hypocritical of u. Also I'm not trying to change their opinion, I'm just tryna argue w someone bc I'm bored and they seemed like the kinda person who'd argue back lmao
I wasn't trying to change anyone's opinion. People can think it's ew, bad etc. that's totally fine. The issue I was calling out in general starts where they think they are progressive and woke but instead spew the same conservative bs the far right does.
It wasn't about you I actually agreed with you.
talk to a wall lol but to answer ur question abt me supposedly wanting this story to contain grooming - > simply, idgaf what it contains. this could have the most vile and graphic content and i would still be here saying it's allowed to be created. I would comment the same thing if it was under a shota manga or smth. I saw ur other comment abt just being bored. Just further speaks volumes about what type of weirdo you are. And no amount of preaching will ever change that. (︶︿︶)＝凸
We can agree and disagree/comment/ give out opinion of a piece of media, but people who go so far to make someone change their mind aggressively, are, to me, the annoying ones, like, they only want to have the upper hand/feel morally superior in a random manga/show or whatever.
I'm the type of person that usually just says my opinion but don't go to other people spaces where they enjoy something I don't, I just let them be, unless they ask my opinion about the issue specifically, I don't bother them.
it's such a shame nowadays you cant read a FICTIONAL STORY without a bitch in ur ear constantly screaming about morality. Unbelievable the society went backwards 100 years when it comes to censorship, that's the biggest "ick" here.