She was just a girl too . . .

(2) DUDE despite all that, she chose to be strong and assumed her duties well, chose to be loyal and did her very best at everything for the people and saved them from the damages the emperor did (like the evil spirits attacking). Gave birth to a prince with the

We all saw it.
Has nothing to do with the fact that despite the good concrete backstory on her, she literally ended up in the same position of hating Bam and her family for no reason. Realize how she thought highly of the general and knew he wasn't into listening to the emperor bad-talk her, but only because the emperor told ya boi to do something he'd do anyway (which she realizes), and that their children will be married. She's mad; it's like being told to take out the trash and being told again while in the process of doing it. The reason she feels some type of way is because what she would have possibly already been open to is being forced on her. However, the man is damn dead, and she is holding onto trauma because there was nothing in writing or no decree saying the marriage would happen. It's just her holding onto it in her mind. She is traumatized and had a bad past, and that's a fact. However, there's no logic to call her past an excuse for her current actions.
She's fighting a battle with a dead piece of shit, with Bam being her target.

“Hating her for no reason” Dude u literally just said that her trauma was a fact, that was exactly the reason. Ofcourse misdirecting her anger to the Bam’s family is no excuse (she even said that herself) But can u deny that the Bam’s family is a constant (and only) reminder of that traumatic conversation with the late emperor. U even saw how the MC’s father reacted when he realized the empress might’ve heard them, man was literally dreading and KNEW how it could immensely hurt and anger the empress. He even understood that.

That trauma will always be vivid to her cause she was never justified. Do u really expect her to be all benevolent & easily get over it after all the sacrifices she made (from being threatened to kill her family, to abandon the love of her life, to being forced as an empress with an incompetent, insecure, inferior and useless emperor that had a child two weeks after their marriage and shamelessly abandoned all his duties to the empress to be giddy happy with another woman, to birthing a son from the man she doesn’t love and raising him obviously alone but managed still to make him a great man) I mean wow if u really think that can easily be burried and be all happy moving on just cause the villain is dead then congrats to u for being the Saint that forgives all things.

Its not about fighting the dead piece of shit emperor, its about her all the more wanting what he said (MC and his son to be married) to NOT come true. We don’t forgive her for what she’s done to the Bam’s but we understood the reason why her anger is inevitable. That was the reason.

No, it's still not a reason. A ruler should have the cognitive maturity to not let their emotions hold them captive. She doesn't realize that she is doing to her son what was done to her in the past (obviously not to the same extent), which is why she lamented if she could've been brave enough to stand up for herself. Her reason is not reasonable; it is not a justifiable reason to scrutinize Bam so heavily because she's actually just fighting with herself at this point and letting a dead man have control over her. It's as clear as day, no need to be thinking about it emotionally. If she hates her dead husband so much, she should stoop to his level as a queen because every official can see what's going on, and they're just not saying anything because she's a bomb. She's like Bam's friend blaming her. She and the queen have a cause of anger but no reason (logic if you can't comprehend what I'm saying) to hate her.

“Her reason is not reasonable; it is not justifiable” you view reason as if it only exists in this world to be always right and just.

Most villains in a story became who they are now for their circumstances in the past. You say not to think about it emotionally, but it should be. Those unresolved feelings are their “reason”. We do not forgive her just because she has a sad backstory, but we understand how her anger isn’t easilly dismissible just because the object of her ire is dead. Just because she’s a ruler doesn’t mean she isn’t a person or a human being capable of emotions of hurt and anger. She has a right to feel that way knowing the injustice she experienced and how MUCH she has sacrificed for everyone in the past.

Even if she was the cruel person you perceive her to be she is still a great empress that raised a great son capable of loving the MC. Made a kingdom where evil beings can co-exist and despite her existing hate towards the Bam she didn’t order them to be killed or assassinated and allowed them to live as a family. She even allowed MC to join in the heavenly empress competition.

You also pointed out how she lamented why she couldn’t be brave like dongyi but you forget their situation was completely different knowing the previous empress threatened to destroy her family, her partner, and her partner’s family if she didn’t become empress, leaving her no choice. The difference was STARK.

The point of the comment was not to deny the wrongdoings of the empress directing her anger to the Bam’s family. The Bams just happen to be the subject of her anger because they ALONE are the reminder or center of her unresolved issue within. I’m not forcing anyone to forgive that but to understand how its also important to consider her perspective if you were her.

No ruler is perfect or person for that matter, but she did a fuckin great job at everything knowing others could not handle what she went through. That’s why I emphasized that her suffering is the greatest in this story.

We can all see she is a competent ruler but
this: "and despite her existing hate towards the Bam she didn’t order them to be killed or assassinated and allowed them to live as a family"(????wtf, is that a plus), is not something to be considered as a good point, she shouldn't be angry at Bam at all is my point, she should use common sense. You don't gotta be perfect to be a reasonable person, not discriminating against Bam would've been enough but yet she couldn't do that, be for real.

Dude that wasn’t for a good point to her, it was talking abt how she had the power as an empress to do MUCH worse to get what she wants (like how the previous empress who threatened her) if she were really the villain that others made her out to be.

At this point, you’re just dismissing the empress’s trauma. It’s like telling a depressed person who was bullied to quickly get over it cause the bully is dead. Her hurts were just minimal and her sacrifices actually meant nothing to fuss over now. She should simply be “reasonable” and have “common sense”, easy peasy. Trauma can magically disappear.

Be for real.

We KNOW she shouldn’t be mad at Bam, even SHE knows that. Her anger is clearly displaced but you shouldn’t deny her the right to feel wronged or to have feelings of hurt and immense anger that still exists within her. Those remain unresolved because she wasn’t allowed to have the time to heal or even get an apology (she can’t even have that cause nobody knew what happened) except the MC’s father. Never did I say what she did to the Bams was acceptable, I was saying we should recognize and understand how she is STILL a victim. That was simply THE point.

I mean if u still don’t see that then genuinely babe, feel free to label her as u see fit. Clearly you don’t want to see it from her perspective as a characater capable of emotion like I tried to explain. To you she is simply the character who hurt the MC and her family because she was unreasonable and lacked common sense.

I'm not dismissing her trauma; I'm saying she should be sensible enough not to hate Bam. I'm not limiting her to being a simple character, nor am I saying her trauma should disappear. I'm criticizing her for exercising her authority incorrectly and knowingly, when she should have at least tried to manage herself internally instead of doing what she did to Bam and his family. Her not doing worse just because she has the power to doesn't prove or show anything; she should have done less. That man served them obediently all those years, yet she allowed her anger toward the King to overflow into hurting others. I do not support the idea that 'hurt people hurt people,' and the consideration of her past should be separate from what she can do in her future. What happened was traumatic, but it's not an excuse to make others' lives traumatic. She should be denied the right to feel wronged when it's done to the wrong person! She should go feel angry at the innocent man and his family in her spare time not during official business.

Where is me saying her trauma is a good enough reason for what she did to the Bams or excusable to hurt the MC? srsly how is this ur take on my point. “She should be denied the right to feel wronged when it’s done to the wrong person” literally how is this not you dismissing her trauma? YES she did it to the wrong person but what shouldn’t be denied is the EXISTENCE of those ill feelings because her trauma was UNRESOLVED. It’s obvious that isn’t the fault of the MC nor her family but the circumstances of their past made her trauma revolve around the Bams whether she wanted to or not.

That isn’t saying its right or excusable once AGAIN *sigh we’re not here to support her hurt people hurt people act, we’re acknowledging why her hurt & anger ALONE exists in the first place. When u mentioned how she should’ve dealt with it herself internally or should’ve done it on a spare time, I now understood how you actually underestimate her pains and the gravity of her injustice in the past. Its amazing how u think such a trauma can be managed or be easily dealt with separately in her life generally when no apology or healing took place. I had to check the last chap again to internalize her sacrifices and humiliation but I guess traumatised ppl in ur life can just be reasonable when the situation demands it.

Simply put this way: You understand that Bam was deeply hurt by the Empress and how she deserves to be apologized as the wrongful victim of the empress’s displaced anger. But when we talk about the same situation of the Empress who was also a wronged victim that was deeply hurt (even more for that matter), she is suddenly undeserving of an apology because she has done wrong.

U mean to tell me once a person does wrong in life, them being a wronged victim means nothing now and is invalid to feel the peace of an apology? Why is it hard for u to get that she wasn’t allowed the opportunity to heal and is the main reason why her trauma is displaced. This is why I said no person or ruler is perfect, she is AWARE of her wrongful anger towards Bam but she still can’t overcome that anger from such a traumatic past and the fact that she hasn’t healed from it. That’s EXACTLY what makes her imperfect.

Plus the point of saying how she could have done worse but didn’t was to prove against the claims of her as the true villain here. The k*lling mc family thought was just citing an example of her capabilities if she were truly the evil like how others labeled her to be. But she isn’t like the previous empress who used threats (that was the true villain) in comparison. Nevertheless, u took it as me proving that because she didnt do that, it was considered a good enough excuse abt her and how she should’ve done less *Sigh

Finally, cause u tend to misunderstand that my explanation is to defend the Empress. The only point was to offer perspective of her as a character with emotions. What she had to do accordingly with what she thinks can justify her pains as a replacement of the apology she never got, despite knowing it was wrong and how it’d hurt innocent people including her son. We don’t agree with how she “manages” trauma and we certainly don’t have to accept her reasons in doing so, its just simply seeing and understanding her imperfect character and that was all there is to it.

I never talked about whether the Empress deserves an apology (how can she get an apology when the people who wronged her are dead, be for real), or not. I'm saying, from my original comment, that everybody can clearly see what happened, so there's no need to emphasize it as if it's going to change something. You talk about apologies, but really, I'm not saying that Bam needs an apology at all. I'm saying that the Empress shouldn't let her anger control her, yet in your first comment, you said her anger is acceptable? Bullshit! You deem it acceptable because of her suffering, but her anger led to something unnecessary: Bam and her family's suffering. The Emperor and former Empress have nothing to do with her future actions towards a family of an official who just did their job. You are internalizing her hurt and pain and letting it cloud your judgment, as if her anger can be justifiable. She can feel angry all she wants, but it's completely irrational of her to let it out, to any degree, on those who do not deserve it. You talk about her trauma as if I can't clearly see what's in front of me, but I'm not blind. You are clearly off-key when talking about the former Empress as a true villain. This is not about villains or heroes or rights and wrongs in terms of strictly being on the heroine's side or not (I mean, we're all not stupid—she's his mother; she's not going to just fly out of the storyline, obviously). It's about holding a character accountable, but rather, you just want to pander to her pent-up emotions.

I don't need the Empress to be the main character to understand her POV. If the MC were in her shoes, it'd be ridiculous of her too. I'm not stupid or unable to see a character's POV, and I've had many experiences where I've disliked the main character but appreciated villains and side characters. You center yourself on being emotional about it when no one can change what happened. We finally got a chapter after all this time, yet the story couldn't give the Empress a real reason to be so negatively charged emotionally towards Bam and her family. That's the point. And in the future, unless the author improves the storyline, every time we see the Empress getting angry at Bam or possibly discriminating against her family, we'll just think, 'Oh well, she had a tough past.' How long is that shit going to last? The only thing that's going to happen is the Empress dealing with herself and reconciling with the old lover. She doesn't need to be perfect, as far as I'm concerned. She didn’t even need to be top-notch in Empress duties; she just needed to allow herself to heal. And I'm obviously not dumb; I can understand she has the weight of a kingdom on her shoulders, but it literally has nothing to do with blaming a general for the death of her husband.

I KNOW you weren’t talkng about apologies. The apologies was a simplified example for you to see she was a fucking human who is currently INCAPABLE to get over such a fucked up past. That isn’t a JUSTIFICATION of her wrongdoing or even a statement to say we should accept her wrongdoings of her past AND future actions towards the Bams— We’re talking about how it’s not FUCKIN EASY for a fucked up person to do what u demand in being immediately reasonable or have the common sense to not displace her deep-rooted anger that ended up hurting an innocent family. AGAIN We all can see that the empress should be held accountable, we’re also not fucking dumb. The explanation was not done in hopes that it should change the storyline and ppl can join me in pity partying her all the time she does wrong to Bam. And why would u also assume when I said her anger is “acceptable” that immediately means me forcing you to accept her wrongs are justifiable? I was saying how its “acceptable” her character is still in a state of a difficult time due to the gravity of her trauma and how it remains unresolved. How its acceptable that she can’t EASILY “manage” to realize how hurting the Bams does nothing to appease her situation.

I’m criticising how u can’t seem to understand the importance of healing or the peace an apology does to a wronged person like the empress and how that needs to fucking happen for her (but we know it won’t since the people who wronged her are dead making it all the more difficult for her to get over the trauma). That’s the only way she can become “reasonable” or rational as you said in general, especially towards the Bams who just happened to revolve around her trauma. Yet that sort of event still hasn’t happened for her which is why u shouldn’t be surprised that she can’t get over it and all the more demand her to act righteous or easily see how hating the Bams does nothing good for her now.

Me acknowledging how that anger STILL exists within her was the point alone, not saying her displacement of anger to the Bams was me fighting to say its justifiable smh Plus mentioning “villains” was to the other comments here who labeled her as such and I offered the comparison of the previous empres’s actions to prove how she isn’t and was just a victim as well. Simply that, but u took it again as me spouting all those examples to justify her wrongs. *sigh

Your argument would only be applicable as “unreasonable” to me if she had the event of being healed or have been apologized to in any form but still continued to torment or discriminate the Bams.

Better yet, she should’ve been allowed the opportunity to reconcile and be understood by her lover (the Hae guy) to learn how hurting innocent people like the Bams is wrong and are only people indirectly involved to her trauma. But no she didn’t have that form of event yet to heal and reflect. Again that’s not saying because she didn’t have this event happen, it passes to justify her wrongdoings!

Its recognizing how she has the right to have feelings of hurt & anger currently due to the circumstances in the past. And obviously wrong of her to displace it to the Bams.

The logic of her being a victim before is suddenly no longer applicable to you all because she’s imperfect in dealing with her trauma. How is that not dismissing? You’re literally just refusing to see my point and calling it as simply a justificafion.

Be for fuckin real.

Like I said from the beginning everybody could see what's going on so there's no need to talk about she was also just a girl not to this this dismiss it but to realize it increasingly becomes irrelevant because the story still managed to make it irrelevant there's not enough plot points as yet the story and you saying in your original comment that her anger is a cry for justice that's the same anger you said is acceptable and also that MC winning would be the late emperor running which is the entire problem it's the entire conflict is because the empress thinks this. She can heal, just not in the way that could have been accessible in the past. It makes no sense to focus on impossible factors that can't ever be utilized in the story, not in the way of ignoring what could possibly happen, but realizing what is likely not to happen. Like both you and I said, the only thing that makes sense is for her to reconcile with her old lover; other than that, there's literally nothing. Also, you clearly weren't reading, because I've always been saying that she can feel angry but shouldn't express it outwardly. Yet you are also reasoning that she isn't a benevolent ruler, which is true but doesn't make up for anything. Also, she is not human. She may have human traits, but remember, lots of mythologies have deities with very emotional qualities—AKA the Greek gods.

“I've always been saying that she can feel angry but shouldn't express it outwardly” babe that’s exactly it, why do u get to demand or choose how she must cope or how she outwardly expresses that anger. You’re being ignorant by saying her way of dealing it is irrelevant now to the story and her reason of seeing that if the mc winning would mean the late emperor’s wish came true shouldn’t be an idea she is constantly haunted with. Yes, that thinking of hers is undeniably wrong and that conflict is all in her head now, but that’s simply why I said she’s an imperfect ruler that inevitably thinks or feel that way due to trauma being unresolved. To her it was a valid reason, and just because u don’t agree doesn’t mean you can invalidate her or simply say her problem of displacement is “unreasonable” like what u said in the previous comment.

You say not to focus on impossible factors to utilize in the story, but what u said abt how she should’ve not outwardly express her anger in her own way (which is wrongly dumping hate to the innocent Bams)is also simply impossible to demand from her knowing no healing took place. We can only wait for that event to happen that we might see her character improve or change. I mean do feel free to judge how she deals with it cause she is wrong, I just dont agree with you saying she’s completely unreasonable for doing it this way or how u deem her displaced anger irrelevant. Also citing she was a human was a basis that she is a character capable of emotional qualities (like Greek Gods). Same as u understood how the Bams family can be hurt like humans despite them being celestials.

"why do u get to demand or choose how she must cope or how she outwardly expresses that anger" Are you hearing yourself? Also yes Mom's family is celestials and they have emotions too they are not human however and neither is the empress. If this was an irl situation that similarly took place in the past it would still be bad and unreasonable of the empress, infact worst, considering reality.

Yes I do hear myself and stand for what I say. Other people here seem to get the acknowledgement part and don’t confuse it with justification. Despite the spoonful explanation you still refuse to get my point. But go ahead since I’m entitled to mine and your entitled to yours.

Keep the same energy for every single character that goes through the same thing in any story.

Same goes for you babe

Always have