I stopped commenting here for so long that I forgot how messy the comment section was.

It wasn't you started from comparing rape and sa to horror movies where one is a real issue and one is made for a specific audience and even horror movies get criticized if there's no reasonable ending poetic justice or character development, you are right it doesn't exist in only one genre which makes it even more worrisome and hardly anybody is saying anything about it those who say anything about it our claims are dismissed as "it's just fiction" it's fiction but is the villain in the story getting what they deserve are there any empathy in the story towards the victim no, it is merely seen as " dominant romance", is the author admitting that the action is toxic and wrongful

I don’t think all media should be “morally correct” if anything itd make stuff boring, what i was trying to say is that an entire literary industry shouldn’t normalize things like for example sexual assault in their stories, this is the reason why people who are outside of the bl community see us a bunch of creepy rape apologists who fetishize gay relationships. Yes stories are absolutely allowed to show rape and all that over twisted bs, but it shouldn’t become a normalized story arc in your average bl story. “Exploring how complicated relationships can be” how? By having the uke immediately forgive their rapist? Like i said before i don’t think it’s good writing but im not advocating for everyone to stop reading these altogether im just saying that our standards for “good” bl really needs to change. (Also you make really good points here thinking of a rebuttal was pretty difficult lol)

Your comment seems like a strawman argument

"I’ll let my friend know to read your comment. Thanks for being respectful and engaging in a thoughtful conversation.

Jinx has no rape but does explore themes of sexual assault. My friend wasn’t comparing SA to horror movies; they provided insightful commentary on the bigger picture. It seems you’re conflating fiction with reality. Murder and torture are real issues too, yet they’re depicted in fiction for specific audiences as Jinx and those like Jinx are depicted in fiction for specific audiences. Jinx isn’t complete yet—let’s wait until it is finished before making final judgments. It’s important to separate fiction from reality and understand this genre better.

My friend asked me to read your comment before they do, and I’ve taken some time to think about how to respond.

First, I want to address the ongoing harassment my friends and I have experienced here. We tend to disengage when conversations become unproductive or devolve into personal attacks. When someone makes false assumptions about our comments or misrepresents what we've said, it understandably raises our guard. My friend felt the need to protect themselves after reading your first sentence, and I think that’s justified.

My friend made some valid points, but it seems they were dismissed. Many authors write to explore complex characters and relationships and engage deeply with these themes. Your handling of my friend’s comments felt dismissive and lacking nuance.

You mentioned that authors should emphasize these issues and have characters recognize and verbalize them. However, this perspective may reflect a misunderstanding of the genre, which often explores complex and mature themes. Many do recognize it but sometimes it is we are labeling something it is not. If you're questioning the purpose of these narratives, it might be worth considering that dark romance and similar genres serve different storytelling intentions. I encourage you to seek out what resonates with you, rather than dismissing narratives that you may not fully understand

It’s important to recognize that not everything is harmful; many see the problematic aspects while still enjoying the genre. Generalizations like yours overlook the nuances that many acknowledge.

Regarding my friends comparison to horror movies, it is relevant here. They can explore violence and fear without promoting those themes as acceptable. Many don't watch horror movies to be scared. Horror lovers enjoy what is happening and not being scared of it. Framing the conversation in a way that discredits my friend’s perspective isn’t constructive. It’s crucial to engage respectfully and avoid tearing someone down for having a different opinion or being factually.

Let’s remember how to have conversations without resorting to personal attacks or misrepresentation. This approach only serves to divide us further when we should be able to discuss differing viewpoints honestly and respectfully.

This comment was to virc's comment. (last comment on page one)

Let's go back to the original message:

1. While I may not be the targeted audience of the questions, many people might find some of the ML's behavior unacceptable, even if they love the story. Jinx isn't my first yaoi.

2. I haven't read much shounen ai—maybe 3 or 4.

3. I’ve read many yaoi but can't pinpoint an exact number.

4. I wish I knew my first yaoi. I read a lot of doujinshi first. I guess maybe Kissing or Level C. Level C I didn’t finish.

5. No.

6. This question shows I'm not the target audience. Yes, no one is holding anyone captive to read this, they have the choice to ignore this manhwa and pretend that it doesn’t exist.

7. Private but from an older generation.

8. I'm being cyberstalked and harassed on Mangago. Would that be a yes?

9. While I've read yaoi, I haven't engaged much in the community despite reading for over many years.

10. Yes, many times.

11. There are worse yaoi out there than this one.

THIS!!!!

YES GIRL (づ￣ ³￣)づ! One manhwa that actually tried to issue the relationships that started with SA, coercion or anything like that was Low Tide in Twilight, the author really make the ML see that what they did was wrong the Uke and the audience would feel it too, they really tried their best to address it, not simply going after to “and they lived happily forever”,”.

Of course! these kinds of conversations around media consumption are very important and we need to debate and discuss in a respectful and civilized matter. Getting angry and jumping to conclusions about the other person really wont help anyone get anywhere in terms of figuring out whats right

This is for Chicken Nuggets too.
I’ve noticed you two are agreeing with that comment.

I’d like to ask for a detailed explanation of how they misrepresented my friend’s comment. Specifically, how did they twist my friend's words and stance, and in what ways did they dismiss and trivialize my friend’s perspective to voice their own opinions while presenting them as facts?

Additionally, regarding the horror movie analogy, it seems they overlooked the valid points my friend made. I’d appreciate clarity on how you’re supporting a comment that shifts focus away from the original discussion, creating an echo chamber instead of engaging with my friend. It seems they are not directly addressing my friend. Who are they really talking to here? How does their comment fit or correlate with my friend's? I know it doesn’t.
Let’s strive for a more constructive dialogue.
Also, there are many others than Low Tide in Twilight.

"I appreciate your understanding and willingness to engage in a respectful conversation. You’re right; however, some people here seem more interested in creating conflict than in having a meaningful dialogue. It’s noticeable when they resort to strawman arguments and gaslighting, shifting the focus to what they can attack instead of engaging directly with the person.

This creates an echo chamber where they’re more concerned with being right than listening to others. It’s disheartening to see people tearing each other down, often to feel better about themselves. Many in this space seem to attack others for their personal feelings without truly listening. When we notice this happening, we tend to disengage when conversations become unproductive or devolve into personal attacks. Sadly, that’s what is happening here, aside from your contributions.

I hope we can work toward a more constructive and empathetic conversation.

OP I will respond to your little questionnaire at some point today because it’s very fascinating to me in many way but I just wanted to say to other people in this thread, I would strongly caution against engaging with TM and MD. They’re not actually interested in having a real discussion—which they accuse others of all the time. They just want to be correct and they will very deliberately misrepresent/misinterpret your every single word, read you at the worst possible faith, and blatantly ignore any factual or valid points you raise—or anything that they themselves say that prove you correct—in order to do so. They will not actually engage with what you’re actually saying, no matter how clearly you articulate, no matter how much evidence you present. The point is to deliberately frustrate you so that you become increasingly hostile and/or keep engaging with them, so that they can then accuse you of being hostile, of misrepresenting them and their points, of being a blind hater, of being a stalker/part of some broader hate/cyberbullying group they’ve invented in their heads, etc.

Separate fiction from reality really that's what you are going with,how are murder and toture in this bl depicted they have merely turned it into a new trope it's not written in a condemning way but written in a way as something to fantasize and fetishize about, there is a thin line between fiction and reality things in fiction happen in reality this fiction also affects the way readers view male to male relationships the uke as something to cripple take over and dominate by the seme this is a very dangerous narrative, I'm not conflicting both it's bothersome that because "it's fiction" you don't see anything wrong with lack of sa and rape condemnation, the bigger picture oh please oh my bad they are using horror to justify shitty writing in a manhwa, because these kind of things exist in different forms of art doesn't mean they shouldn't be condemned,no wonder people see bl readers as creeps

Well said well said

Ah and, to add, they’re not communicating to you with their own words but are instead using ChatGPT to structure and write their responses most of if not all the time. They won’t be forthright about this fact, and when you call them out for it, they will either lie and say they don’t use it, or say that their use of it isn’t bad, and that, actually, you’re wrong and prejudiced and a bully for not wanting to talk to someone using AI generated responses and for feeling lied to and mislead because AI use was not disclosed.

It seems like this comment is more about trolling than fostering genuine discussion. I've seen how aggressive Akaito has been toward my friends, and it's disheartening. Akaito's actions suggest his never was interested in a real conversation; rather, He wanted to provoke and press us. He even said he wanted to press us. I never talked to Akaito for how he treated my friends.

Akaito is projecting his behavior onto us, describing what he has done as if it were us. We are not TM or MD.
TM and MD haven’t engaged since March and May, respectively, so it's misleading to equate our responses with theirs. We’ve disengaged because of the hostility directed at us, and we’re not the ones creating falsehoods here. Akaito witnessed the cyberstalking we've faced, yet he dismissed it. It’s frustrating to see him playing the victim while not taking responsibility for your actions. He admitted to some but he ever took responsibilty for them.

This is another falsehood.

I’ve noticed you are agreeing with that comment.

I’d like to ask for a detailed explanation of how they misrepresented my friend’s comment. Specifically, how did they twist my friend's words and stance, and in what ways did they dismiss and trivialize my friend’s perspective to voice their own opinions while presenting them as facts?

Additionally, regarding the horror movie analogy, it seems they overlooked the valid points my friend made. I’d appreciate clarity on how you’re supporting a comment that shifts focus away from the original discussion, creating an echo chamber instead of engaging with my friend. It seems they are not directly addressing my friend. Who are they really talking to here? How does their comment fit or correlate with my friend's? I know it doesn’t.
Let’s strive for a more constructive dialogue.