EWWWW

I'm all fine :3 don't worry bout me

I love you

ya the shiki person blocked me over the most…i don’t even think what i said to them could be considered insults i was just pointing out contradictions in their words and behaviors. it’s a shame though i would be interested in seeing why they think there’s no rape in this manhwa instead of y’know. shutting people down and then not giving any explanation. i know i definitely could explain why i think there’s rape and from many standpoints. i’ve been more than happy to do so, repeatedly.

i’ll say though i don’t think anyone’s an inherently bad person for enjoying this webtoon personally (i don’t think it’s something that you said but something other users have expressed). i think that you probably have poor taste and i wish you a very i hope you mature in your tastes soon but because first of all to me there were things that were interesting about it at first, And there were also elements of the webtoon i just genuinely enjoyed (like the relationship that the rest of jaekyung’s team has with dan, for example, or little fumbled moments of things becoming interesting like when it seemed dan was gonna learn how to fight/stand up for himself against jaekyung…fucking. alas). then of course there are people who just simply enjoy FANTASTICAL/FICTIONAL non-consensual scenarios—who are well aware that they enjoy those things and engage with them in ways that are safe and do not at all harm anyone else. if this makes you uncomfortable i can understand that but you do just kind of have to accept that human sexuality and psychology is just. inherently weird and complex i mean there is something to be said about the love of imbalanced power dynamics and how that plays out here in this webtoon, for example.

of course yeah the problem arises when there’s a lack of awareness of what one is consuming and its implications, as has been. displayed here.

speaking of contradictions they seemed upset at the idea of you supposedly assuming who they are as a person/how they think and yet they make several assumptions about several people and who they are as people/how they live their lives throughout their interactions with people. like assuming that people who disagree with them/who are upset at the webtoon and how it’s being received or how it might be received must be immature children and/or normies, or that they don’t have lives outside of this, or that they are simply insane and taking things too seriously. very interesting

Lmao right?? Like what did I even say for them to block me? I was (rlly nicely imo) explaining the way u can be affected by reading this type of story and y it has SA. Also yh I agree u r not inherently a bad person for reading this stuff (like I'm sure most ppl reading yaoi have read wayyyy worse shit, myself included, but the fact that the rape in this is not treated as such by the author remains) and this does have interesting elements to it which is y I've actually read it tho i think this is purely a coincidence bc the author is clearly not good at writing plot lmao (mingwa is the def of no thoughts head empty). As for the ppl that enjoy non-con I'm sure they're swarming to this manhwa and I think they're freaks in a kink shaming way. Like I'm sorry idc that humans r weird u rlly should get therapy for that. But anyway this isn't the case w shiki - as u said they just aren't consuming this in a critical way

Oh yh def agree w this. Good spot. Tbh tho i kinda get y they might think the ppl that r upset r "normies" bc as i said in my prev comment I've read way worse shit and i didn't see that many ppl talking abt y they're bad. I in no way mean that shiki is right btw, I just mean that I want more ppl to show this kinda energy for other manhwas/gas/huas like this bc atm it seems that everyone is just doing this bc it's the majority/popular opinion (like I'm only seeing more ppl hating on this bs manhwa after LABY's yt vid but then again it might just be that they didn't realise before it)

Yeah the author not recognizing what she’s writing is. this has always been the rub for me this has happened more than a few times with fanfics I’ll be reading where I’m like okay dark element that’s fine! And then I’m made aware that the author is NOT aware of what the hell they’re writing and I get sooo stressed. No babes that’s not rough sex you just wrote that was a rape scene. You wrote a rape scene. Please say psyche. Because yes it immediately raises concerns about how this person is personally conceiving of (non) consent

But I mean the psychology has said that there’s nothing wrong with people having rape fantasies in and of themselves though (it is one of the most popular fantasies people have—and there is a conversation to be had about Why it’s such a popular fantasy and what the broader implications of it I actually watched an interesting video along the lines of the subject and I’d be happy to link it) and it’s not entirely something that people can control/just be therapy’d out of I’m gonna be honest with you for some people yes it may be a product of trauma in which case therapy would absolutely benefit them, especially in the case where they’re engaging in genuinely unsafe sexual behaviors and relationships, right? But the therapy isn’t going to magically make them Not be into those scenarios anymore. For some people it will be that they stop altogether, and for other people it will be them, again, finding ways to engage with their fantasies/desires in ways that do not harm other people and also don’t harm themselves (like consensual non-consent play with a partner/partners who they feel safe with and who they’ve had extensive conversations with beforehand). And this isn’t even talking about people who are just into it for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with trauma at all. Like you know there are people who are just randomly attracted to shit like balloons or cars and stuff for no reason, right?

Idk. I’m sure there are some things you might be into (sexually or not) where at the end of the day you’re just like well, I don’t know why I’m into this thing. Or things you read and/or fantasize about that you enjoy in a fictional context but would never enact in real life. Like running over pedestrians in a video game or something. Like I’ll speak for myself and say I can suspend my disbelief in that case because I know I’m not hurting anyone and the ragdolling models look funny as fuck! I might even watch videos where this exact thing is happening in different video games to have myself a chuckle. That doesn’t mean I’m gonna get in my in real life car one day and be like “haha yes! it is time to run over pedestrians for real now!” like no. I’d rather die. I know the weight of a real human life and how devastating it can be to lose one I’ve already lost someone close to me you see how that’d be crazy, right?

Oh yh ik rape fantasies can arise for other reasons other than trauma and that just bc u have them doesn't mean you'll enact them (in an unsafe manner) irl but for me there r a couple of kinks that r just... v gross (like this and age play). To each their own tho bc at the end of the day idk what's going thru other ppl's heads. Also yh go ahead and link the vid. I took psych for A levels (sadly not doing it at uni tho TT) so I'm rlly interested in this stuff. Anyway to sum it up I'm not actually condemning anyone in this case, it's just smth I personally can't deal w

Now everyone needs to CHILL

Oh you’re so valid for that I understand completely. Age play is also one where I’m like I guess I get it but it does indeed freak me out LMAO. But yeah no I just get kind of peeved when people say things like “ew gross” or “go get therapy” in these instances without at least trying to understand bc yeah, it tends to be a knee-jerk reaction born from sheer disgust and doesn’t take into consideration certain things. I think it also contributes to further unnecessary stigmatization of something that people tend to already feel ashamed of/that people already struggle with (primarily women experience these fantasies, for example, and you can imagine how crunchy that can be for someone belonging to a group of people who are already shamed for any expression of their sexuality, how the narrative that an enjoyment of a certain fantasy can be used as justification for blaming someone for something as awful as sexual assault/rape happening to them IRL, and how they might internalize that blame due to messages like these it’s frankly stuff I’ve heard from people about before)… Not to mention that “argument” being used as a critique against things when it’s not actually the core issue ends up being ineffective. Like with this Webtoon for example, the issue doesn’t lie in the author enjoying fictional rape/non-con scenarios or even necessarily her writing it, but that she doesn’t seem to be aware that that’s what she’s writing—which results in improper tagging, first and foremost, and secondly messaging surrounding consent and abuse in the Webtoon being problematic and (possibly) contributing to broader and already widespread messaging around that stuff anyway sorry for the big ramble I’ve done a project on portrayals of consent in sex ed/media myself and I’m helping teach a class on it next semester so I’ve been thinking a lot about this stuff and there have been so many things said on both sides of this discussion that have been bugging me jdhfhfbf here’s the vid though https://youtu.be/bqloPw5wp48?si=SpJbBrTNYa8peHQg

Ik u probs didn't mean it in this way but just to clarify I wasn't using the fact that the author/some readers might have a noncon kink to critique the work. It wouldn't be a valid criticism in the first place. Also the bit abt ppl weaponising women's rape fantasies against them to justify actual rape is so CORRECT and pisses me OFF and I understand y u wouldn't therefore want them (the rape fantasies) to be further stigmatised but tbh I think they arise from wider societal issues (rape culture) and the fact they're used to feed into those issues is what gives me the kneejerk reaction of "ew gross". Also as someone w/o that kink even tho ik abt CNC i just find the rape aspect gross not the ppl themselves (ik i said "in a kink shaming way" in a prev comment but that was me half joking and also not expecting a serious discussion abt it lol)

So true.
What many don’t understand about our concerns and why we are criticizing these type of stories is not because we are calling them rapists or that they will rape someone because of liking this type of content.

The real problem is the inherent danger that blurring the lines of consent brings into real life issues. They are becoming desensitized and oblivious to signs of what is abuse and what is not. By consuming these romanticized rape stories, they are not even aware that the desensitization, which they say is bullshit, already happened and is showing in every argument they use and in how they believe that what is portrayed isn’t rape.

There is a big difference between someone who enjoys fictional non consensual media and is aware of their own tastes (i dislike it, but i prefer 100% they express their desires in fictional characters instead of bringing into reality.) and someone who likes fictional non consensual media, but to not feel guilty they try to transform the narrative of consent and make so that it is not “as bad as it seems, their no isn’t their real feelings” or “the character liked it in the end, so it’s not rape”. They lie to themselves so much to the point in their mind it becomes the truth, and that is really dangerous as this view becomes their parameter of consent that is brought to their lives.

You can see that even in men that enjoy pornography. The quantity of them that started to reproduce the actions shown in hardcore porn fully believing that their partner will like it, is absurd. Let’s not even enter the discussion of how the pornography industry is shit, and how they may even be seeing real rape on those videos. This example has the same pretense of these people, they’re unaware/desensitized/in denial of the content they enjoy, and start to reproduce or even accept stuff done to them, because it is normalized in their minds. (They do not have it clear that 1- What’s shown is not okay. 2- They like it even if it’s not okay. 3- They will consume it fully knowing that it is a crime and that it shall remain fictional and only in their minds.)

Hells, the author acts like they’re writing a romance and obviously seem unaware that they’re depicting a crime. At least, the Killing Stalking author (even though they made extras to cater the ship/romantic view of their characters, but well, people can ship stuff even being aware that it is not cool or legal in real life. As long as they’re aware of it and aware that it should remain in fiction, i see no problem.) made clear that what was depicted was in no way healthy or consensual, and that their relationship wasn’t romantic.

THIS. LITERALLY THIS. The point abt some men reproducing hardcore acts they see in porn is so true and a great example of our concerns. Sadly, ppl defending this manhwa by claiming it's just fiction or that it's not rape would just dismiss this.

I'm late tho what did I miss lol

Akaito when did I have an argument with you? <:/
Guys, I don't know who is who, in fact I don't even read your user names when I write u back lol mb

Just telling the person wishing me ''mature in your tastes'' that unfortunately I have been reading yaoi for over 20 years and my tastes have never changed and I think never will, I'm reading everything I find every genre/topics etc and I can enjoy basically EVERYTHING, and when you reach that level I think you can call urself mature because you take a step back from what you read and what surrounds you. (well... except frkingksbcjjeksbcbg traumatizing zoophilshit with pigs man that sh!t hell can't read that gohnxkdhgjjtb). It exist, ppl read it, and yeah, not my problem read what u like, doesn't technically mean you want to... with a... like... Yeah

Btw why is the word "normies" coming back? what did I say about that? I don't even remember -_- people quoting me, that's amazing bro (and creepy)

Ok, to be clear I block ppl because I don't want u to pollute my notifications with unnecessary arguments that I will easily forget on top of that and I don't necessarily want to read too.

Eww why did I wrote this much stuff?

Yes oh my god you reminded me of a study that talked about how an increasing amount of young guys were going into sexual encounters and just…choking/slapping their (young women) partners around with no discussion or consent beforehand and I was so miffed??? And it’s so crazy to me because I’m like under what circumstances would you think this is an okay thing to do to a complete stranger. I think that porn/the porn industry most definitely has its issues (such as like you pointed out the exploitative work conditions and the fact that there’s not many rules and regulations as to who and what might be posted on many sites) but to me it feels like an extension of already long, preexisting problems—like how (sexual) violence against women and minorities in general is/was already normalized long before porn as we see it today came into the picture, for one, and how a lot of people just don’t have alternative and healthier models for how sex and sexuality and consent and relationships SHOULD work because we unfortunately live in a society So people with no understanding of how this shit should be working because they got shitty or no sex ed end up turning to porn/using it as a model when it’s in the DEPTHS of fantasy and coming away from it thinking it’s real, and people who already have certain biases end up having them deepened and reaffirmed by porn.

Shiki what ur describing isn't maturity, it's mindless consumption of media. Jinx was written in the context of rape culture and is a symptom of it bc clearly the author has no idea what they're actually writing and therefore ignoring this context and "just enjoying it" is feeding into the thing u r ignoring.

So basically your point is 80% (and I think more) of yaoi authors don't know what they're doing. I can enjoying it bc I disconnect with reality I'm not projecting (if m'y eng is correct -_-) and comparing it to reality, I read to evade. If I wanted to make myself aware of rape/sa etc I wouldn't be reading a Bl manhua, this isn't the right media.

Shiki… When did I say that I argued with you? This is why we quote people, to make sure that we’re understanding and using their own words and hopefully not misrepresenting what they’re saying.

Also being mature in your tastes most definitely doesn’t mean that you enjoy every single thing you read Especially not uncritically. I can’t say for sure what dictates a mature or immature taste per se, because there are many right and wrong answers. I think matureness does often manifest in being able to engage with things you might not enjoy/that might not be for you with an open mind, and engaging in a broad spectrum of things, yes. But it’s also being able to point out the things that are working in the art you’re engaging with and the things that aren’t working in the art you’re engaging with.

I think that most people who seem to uncritically and genuinely enjoy this Webtoon have poor/immature taste because it is, simply put, poorly written. Forget the issue of whether or not it’s rape being depicted here and what implications that has on how we interpret what’s going on (a huge ass fucking ask, by the way), the characters are cookie-cutter and the plot is just full of cliches and stupid devices. It doesn’t even try to do anything new or interesting with said cliches and plot devices, to say anything interesting or true about the world or the people living in it. No one who has expressed enjoyment of this Webtoon so far, as I’ve seen it, has ever pointed any of these aspects of the story out—neither positive nor negative. It has all been defensive. Which, to a degree, is understandable but like—come on? If all you can say is “well xyz webtoons are worse” (and? we’re talking about this webtoon) “but it’s not rape” (explain to me why, with examples) “everyone who dislikes this is just stupid and wrong and have no lives” (is that true? is that relevant?) etc etc but you have nothing definitively positive to say about it then…IS there anything good to say about it? Even I’ve been able to point out what I liked and I could say more! lol