Let's remove the rose colored glasses for a sec.

who downvoted this? I want them dead. You are so right like fr, girlie

I think it's okay to criticize Kazehaya's actions without resorting to armchair diagnosing. What traits did he present that make you think he has a cluster B personality disorder? How did he gaslight her? As in, repeatedly intentionally made assertions, that she wasn't perceiving reality correctly. If I told you I'm vegan, I'd be lying to you. If we sat together at the table everyday and everytime I ate meat in front of you, I said "This isn't meat, are you crazy? This is obviously tofu. We went to the store together and bought this tofu. We're didn't even pass the meat section, why are you gaslighting me?" I'd be gaslighting you. If we were visiting a restaurant together, and they served me meat, but called it tofu, and I'd believe them, even if I told you it was tofu, I wouldn't be gaslighting you, I wouldn't be lying, I'd just be wrong.

Kazehaya is a teenager with developing social and emotional intelligence. The reason people value thing manga so much, is because it nicely shows what problems can arise in a highschool relationship, without any absurd drama.

Eeehh this is kinda wrong in so many ways. Kazehaya never even thought Sawako likes him. He's not really manipulating her in any way, he's just a kid whos scared to make any moves. He told Sawako their like is different because in his perspective, it is different. He thinks Sawako just respects him and wants to be like him, which is exactly what Sawako told him before. The misunderstanding is not only on Sawako's part, Kazehaya isnt really aware of her feelings and all the shit thats going on. Like i dunno, theres no part in the story where Kazehaya gaslit and manipulated Sawako. They both misunderstood each others intention and they both felt like they have no right to be in each others pressence.

Regarding not giving Sawako stuffs on valentines and white day, its a japanese custom. I think its cause you read BL, but normally men dont give anything on valentines day. They reciprocate on white day, but because he never really got Sawako's chocolates, it would be kind of presumptious to give her anything on white day. Cause valentines is giving love and white day is reciprocating that love. If he give anything on white day, its like saying i know you like me and i like you too, but he didnt know how Sawako feels. Also, didnt he prepare a gift for Sawako on christmas? It was the keychain. Which she cherished throughout the whole series. He also gifted her a ring on her birthday.

Regarding the confession of Ume and the girls before her, Kazehaya never really believes anyone likes him until they confess to him, hes humble and dumb like that. Also, imagine your friend telling you multiple times someone likes you and noone actually comes forth to confess, dude thinks Chizu is teasing the hell out of him, thats why he said why dont she confess herself? Also didnt Ume manipulated everyone so that noone actually confess to him? So Kazehaya doesnt think hes popular like that. He thinks he has a lot of friends, not fangirls. With Ume, he never really believed she likes him, even when other people tell him that she does, until she actually confessed to him. Also, rejecting the chocolate kinda also mean rejecting the courage and denying the feelings of the girl who gave it to you. That would be just cruel after he rejected her feelings. Its like saying i dont really care how you feel. Accepting the chocolates is like saying thank you for your feelings.

Kazehaya never manipulated Sawako, hes like everyone else, he never really understood her fully. Hes jealous, afraid of rejection and feels like hes just being a nuissance to her because of his feelings, so he ends up lashing out and pushing her away. He lacks the confidence and brain power to actually clear up the misunderstandings.

lmfaooo what is this take

what the hell you yapping about

Yeah I can see it. kazehaya seemed to be turning things around so in the end it was Sawako making the big leaps of faith to get the relationship engine revving. While some people ,ay argue that he may have fumbled because he might’ve been shy, Sawako had it worse and had to deal with a lot to get things going. He knew her temperament and insecurities not to mention the public view of her that contributed to her constantly misinterpreting people’s feelings and understandings of her efforts. he also knew how she tried to protect people at her own expense. But knowing these things he kept putting her in situations so that she’d be forced to tell her feeling for him and while in a romanticists eyes they saw it as his attempt to confess, he really didn’t try to openly reassure her that his like was romanticized. Instead he would get into his own feelings as if she wasn’t going to say what he wanted to hear and would cut the conversation short, not clarify that he likes her and wants to date her, and then created a distance between them by not keeping up their usual rapport no matter how awkward it was. Sawako constantly had to step up and wear her heart on her sleeve (gifts, clearing up rumors, facing bullies, showing up to Christmas party after spending time with her family, opening up to him for New Years)while he protected his heart and feelings (notice he didn’t open up about his personal life as much as her?). But hey all the naysayers will ignore this because they’re a cute and awkward couple in the end.

This is such a horrible and a completely weird interpretation to take.To call kazehaya manipulative and narcissist, completely misunderstands the story and his character and it shows your reading comprehension.To base a character, a teenage boy nonetheless showing emotion as narcissism and manipulation is bizarre.He never once forced her to do something she never wanted, he always cheered her on when she wanted to be out going, he corrected people when they were saying her name wrong, he defended her.He liked her from the start but when she said that she looked up to him, he didn’t pursue it any further, there were so many instances were he told her he liked her but she took it the wrong way which rightfully
complicated things for him,He admitted to feeling selfish for being jealous numerous times, when she stopped smiling around him and thought she was uncomfortable around him he stepped away.He supported her career and told her to pursue her passions and that he will always be waiting for her.She contributed her being happy and outgoing towards him and he told her multiple times it was not because of him but because people wanted to be around her,He gave her a keychain as a gift, he knew she wanted to go out on Christmas so he encouraged her and waited for her.I mean I can keep going on and on that is how good he is.I am not sure if you have realized but this about teenagers,meaning they will misunderstand and not communicate with each they will show emotions like jealousy and greed that is how teenagers are.Kazehaya is one of the best if not the best shoujo lead.He completely and wholeheartedly supported Sawako in everything and was always her number one supporter.The author gave you a plot so good, characters so well written, on a silver platter yet you when ahead and misinterpreted it.

I’m so tired of y’all taking things to the extreme and trying to diagnose things you can’t even really begin to comprehend. This is about teenage love; it’s imperfect, sometimes messy and all-consuming. These are kids we’re taking about (when the story starts). They are not yet emotionally mature enough to understand how to properly communicate their needs and wants in a more healthy way - and that’s ok cause they’re learning and growing. This take is a slap in the face to people who really suffer from the behavior you’re talking about and those who fall victim to it. Jealousy is a perfectly human emotion. Anger and frustration in love is normal. It’s clear you didn’t really understand what you’re reading or the characters of the story and so you ended up with this backwards take. Please log off the internet and interact with real human beings.

We know it’s teenage love and that there’s misunderstandings that make things complicated for the two. Context clues from the ops thought was that this was pre ship sailing arc. SMH children and teenagers too can be manipulative. Everyone can. It’s not just an adult trait. But be fr it’s a fact that he made things more complicated than necessary which led to them going around in emotional circles. Boy likes girl and girl likes boy. Girl doesn’t understand that her feelings are returned.. boy doesn’t understand that his feelings are returned. Girl is trying to find a way to give the right words. And boy is too fearful that his feelings aren’t returned and repeatedly cuts her off and fails to clarify himself. He puts distance between them. Both have their own emotional rollercoasters. Girl (who’s socially awkward) finally takes a step to fully reveal her feelings towards boy. Boy is relieved and professes back. Case in point the girl had to make the big moves because the boy didn’t. Then she ship starts sailing. All the evidence provided in op points out the flaws in boys character (didn’t say it ruined the story.) Maybe the terms used to reference these traits in the character were too harsh but they had some accuracy. Constructive criticism is fine but relax and don’t be a dick.

There’s a difference between intentional malice and manipulation and indirectly doing so. Everything you mention is normal and can’t be classed as explicit narcissistic behavior like OP is doing. Literally doesn’t compute. People throw these terms around so often and get on their high-horse thinking it’s ok to label them as manipulative or whatever and paint these scenarios like it’s black and white without taking a step back. It’s ok to dissect the narrative and characters, but if you start saying things like gaslighting and manipulation then you’re the one making it a bigger issue that needs to be addressed. Dunno why ur in the replies defending this when your argument is as flimsy as OP’s ? Next

Interesting, I merely stated my opinion and observation, this is after having followed the story for years and re-reading once in a while. It's okay to disagree, but you seem to have a personal affliction and feel the need to insult others, hater. Depending where you are in the world, there are many ways to interpret a character and this was mine- perhaps you should look into an advanced literature and composition course? While you're at it, educate yourself on high context vs low context language and cultures. I never stated their emotions were inhuman, infact, I never judged their emotions, this was purely behavioral. Kazehaya acknowledged to himself that he was the one who made Sawako make the moves and acknowledged his jealousy. Just because they're teenagers doesn't mean they aren't capable of knowingly or unknowingly being manipulative or exhibiting a toxic behavior. Fyi, I acknowledged in my original post that they are teenagers and characters with limited emotional maturity- however one had a higher emotional intelligence than the other. It looks like you have selective reading skills because I stated reasons for each observation. Guess you couldn't handle it

You're free to think this way. Admittedly I overlooked the keychain gift. However, I didn't fail to recognize them as teenagers or that they lacked a certain level of communication skills. However, Kazehaya knew she liked him. Period. Now his interpretation of the like is totally up to him. However he repeatedly exhibited behaviors where rather than self evaluate or reflect, he jumped and asked Sawako her feelings before expressing his own, when he didn't immediately get an answer he wanted while knowing she's a bit naive and didn't understand certain emotions or differences of emotions- he forced her to answer (see the examples from original post) and when he didn't like her answer, instead of communicating, he cut her off mid sentence, flipped it and made her think she didn't truly like him or put effort to express it to him and walked away while she cried in anguish and missed class, she was questioning herself and if what she had been doing was enough, (low key, that kinda narcissistic boo, even if he didn't knowingly do it and why i said its kinda manipulative). Telling her he'll leave her alone was forcing her hand. Never said he didn't support her or that the plot wasn't good, but hey that's why topics and discussions are open in this forum. Misinterpretation is debatable. Not sure if you're aware, but exhibiting certain behaviors and being of a certain age doesn't mean the behaviors they're exhibiting are not there. From me to you is them trying to communicate and express their feelings hoping it would reach each other. I asked you to remove the rose-colored glasses for a second. But you kept a closed view and went on defense. Out of curiosity, given your argument seems to have a strong foundation that relies on the fact that they're teenagers, if the story remained the same, but they were adults would your opinion remain the same?

If you read the post, you'd know. What value did you bring here?

No where in my argument did I insult you or OP? Let’s be clear, I said your argument is flimsy (still is) and you took it personal. The problem with this post was that OP doesn’t understand the gravity of the concepts and terms they’re discussing. You inserted yourself and tried to defend them with a different argument that I wasn’t addressing. Even still, the problem with your argument is that you started off saying “everyone can be manipulative” in the context of this post which specifically discusses these young characters and claims they have various personality/social disorders. You’ve been agreeing that he’s a manipulative character/person and are now backtracking and saying you were referring to his behavior instead. Then you come at me with your “advanced literature, high-low context, selective reading skill” bs to bump yourself up. Be so fr

Heres the ugly truth of the world, just because youre suffering more, doesnt mean others arent as well. Just because they understood you once, doesnt mean they will continue to do so. And just because you feel worse, doesnt mean everybody should ignore their feelings and tend to yours. Once you learn that, its easier to let go of grievances and hurt and easier to see why people acted such ways around you. Its easier to understand that if you constantly think "what were they feeling when they did that to me?", "what did i do or what did they experience that led to them hurting me?". Kimi ni Todoke was my comfort manga when i was younger cause it taught me sht like that.

Kimi ni todoke was a masterpiece because it showed the complex feelings of teenage friendship and love. It interpreted it beautifully and helped a lot of teenagers to understand their own feelings and the feelings of the people around. Taught people how important reaching out to other people is and how to find the courage to speak up and stand up for yourself while still remaining compassionate. It taught me that my kindness wasnt a flaw that i had to get rid of and that i wasnt being dumb by clinging to my values and believing in people. And it wasnt Sawako that taught me all that, but Kazehaya and Sawako's friends. I watched the anime and read the manga during the darkest times of my life, when i was being bullied in high school. I saw myself in Sawako and Kazehaya's words and advice became kinda like my guiding light just like how it was to Sawako. The comfort she received from Kazehaya and her friends became my own and the happiness she felt from them became my own happiness and eventually, her courage became my own and i was able to make my own friends. The people around Sawako made me realize that the people around me dont actually wish i was dead. Everyone is just human and also having a hard time.

Of course Sawako had it worse, but Kazehaya was dealing with his own feelings and misunderstanding as well. Even Sawako's friends are like that as well, everyone around Sawako,even her parents never truly understood her. They just keep on hurting and hurting her. Why? Because theyre all humans. Just like her. Sawako had it worse, but everyone else were also having a hard time.

He didnt fumbled because he was shy. He was insecure and afraid. In his mind, Sawako just respects him and wants to be like him, like Sawako's made up version of him. Kazehaya knows what hes really like, he was just an ordinary kid, insecure in so many ways, jealous and petty, but Sawako already put him in a pedestal. And he wants to live up to that expectation but he also wants Sawako to accept him as him. He cannot reassure her of his feelings, because he wasnt even sure about hers. He thinks Sawako is not gonna say anything he wants to hear, because she already did that. She already said things he didnt want to hear, and Kazehaya doesnt wanna accept that. He doesnt wanna be just her role model, he wanted her to see him as a romantic prospect, and it makes him afraid to move forward, cause in his mind, he was already rejected. But he wasnt only protecting his feelings, he was also protecting Sawako. He felt like his feelings will just be a burden to her, because thats what Miura said.

Thats why Sawako had to be the one to reach out. Sawako understood that. Kazehaya was the first to reach out to her when she felt alone at school, and it gave her the courage to reach out to other people, but she never actually reached out to Kazehaya. There was a wall between them because Sawako herself put that wall there unintentionally by putting Kazehaya in a pedestal. Her actions made Kazehaya insecure. In Kazehaya's mind, he never really was as important as her friends. In his mind, hes just someone whos constantly bothering her, trying to get close because of his own selfish desire. Sawako had to be the one to break down the wall between them because she was the one who put it there. And when she finally broke down that wall, she finally reached him.

Its honestly such a beautiful thing, Kazehaya was the one who taught her how to reach her friends. He was ultimately the one who helped her find the courage. He became the bridge that connected her to an even bigger world. But all this time, he felt the same fear and insecurities towards Sawako, that she did towards the people around her. He needed help as well, to reach out to her, to find his courage. And just like he did for her, she reached out first. She poured out her feelings and washed away all the fear and insecurities. Its such a beautiful relationship and its sad to see people interpret it in a negative way when he author portrayed everything beautifully.

you did not just overlook the keychain, you overlooked everything, because if not you would have known that kazehaya never outright knew she liked him.In the first few chapters when sawako told kazehaya she had liked him, he had realized that she had meant in a i look up to you sort of way and that he misinterpreted her way of like.There are numerous times when instances were kazehaya feels like he misinterprets how she feels about him.He even one point asked her if she wanted to go out with him but she did not understand what he meant so left it at that.He told Ayane at one point that even though he might want to confess their view of like maybe different and that he does not want to further complicate things for her .Kazehaya never had to "self evaluate" because we as readers were never given any doubt about his feelings for her, and at point was shown him telling Ume that sawako is the only one for him.If you were going to remove these so called "rose colored glasses" than you should have removed them completely and criticized Sawako for misunderstanding kazehaya's feelings for her even though he was upfront with her multiple times? why not criticize Sawako for making Kazehaya feel like she is uncomfortable around him which further complicates things for both of them?.From your logic because sawako never knowingly did it than she is manipulative and narcissistic .Sawako maybe not understand emotions outright and may communicate differently than others but she is nor weak or helpless as you make her out to be.Neither sawako nor kazehaya were good at communicating with each other but more so Sawako because she always misinterpreted his feelings and was never upfront with her feelings to him.It is true that the behaviors they exhibit are still there , no matter their age, but its more so true that because of their age the interpretation should be handled differently.From me to you is called from me to you because in the end their feelings both reach each other.I do not understand why you write as if both the characters are not in a relationship with each other.IF these were adults this conversation would be different, which is why i believe no matter what you write still do not understand that this is about teenagers because you are looking through the lens of "what if they were adults".If you think that someone have a conversation with you from point A to point B why you are wrong and viewing at as defensive than you can not have proper conversation.

So after reading this, i realized you definitely skimmed the manga or the others are right and we should actually work on your comprehension skills. Because Kazehaya never really was sure of Sawako's feelings. He never knew she liked him, he hoped but he never assumed. And that is where your misunderstanding of his character begins.

Kazehaya thought their like was different, because Sawako have repeatedly stated that she only respects him. In the beginning of the manga, there was an instance where he thought Sawako confessed her feelings and he decided to basically ask to date her, but japanese is a confusing language, so Sawako thought by seeing each other, he meant they will literally see each other and not ignore one another, and she repeatedly stated she only respects him and that that her feelings will never ever change. And that wasnt the only instance Sawako made Kazehaya feel insecure. You always talk about the gifts Sawako gave, but Sawako never really had the courage to give Kazehaya chocolates on valentines days where girls would give one to their friends and crushes in japan. But he never got one, not even a complimentary one, which kinda told him where he stands in their relationship. She repeatedly made him feel insecure and less than her friends, so Kazehaya never felt like she likes him.

Also you keep saying Kazehaya was never clear about his feelings. He repeatedly stated that he likes her. In fact there was one instance where he was like, "youre right, Sawako is the girl i like" in front of everyone, but Sawako told him to not say it like that cause people will misunderstand. How else is he supposed to interpret it other than her rejecting him? In fact, he talked about it with Ryuu the next day, so you misunderstanding his intention is quite bizzare. In fact Sawako is the one who was never clear about her feelings.

Also, you keep misunderstanding Sawako's character as well. Sawako is not a pitiful girl. Shes not dumb. She never misunderstood everyones feelings because she doesnt understand certain things, she misunderstood peoples feelings because of outside interferance, like the rumours with Ayane and Chizu, and Miura Kento constantly whispering in her ears. But she always had the courage to reach out, she always pushed forward to keep her relationships intact. And Kazehaya viewed her as such a person, when Miura said Sawako is pitiful, he said he doesnt get it because he always saw her as someone who is joyful and courageous. Which she is, she was never gloomy, always positive and trying her best.

But Ayane and Ume was right, she was always trying her best but never when it comes to Kazehaya. Despite fearing Ayane and Chizu will reject her, she pushed forward. But when it comes to Kazehaya, she lets her fear and insecurities engulf her. She never really told him how she feels. She never really made any effort to convey her feelings. She never made an effort to understand Kazehaya. Miura Kento was right, she doesnt have a wall with everyone else, but she had one with Kazehaya, because she had always put Kazehaya in a pedestal. In the end, Sawako herself realized she should make an effort for her feelings to reach Kazehaya, just like how she did with everyone else, instead of being so passive and giving up. She moved forward and reached him.

You see, this is how people actually read. They dont view one side of the story. Using context clues, which in this case, is Kazehaya verbally explaining his feelings to Ryuu, you would actually be able to understand his character. Using your eyes to read and not just look at pretty pictures, you will see him talking to Ayane, Chizu, Ryuu and Miura. You can also see his thought bubbles. Like these context clues encompasses several pages too. If you just like used your eyes to actually read. But then again, you said youve reread this a couple times, so maybe its a comprehension problem.

You are the only one who is actually keeping a close eyed view, by skimming through the pages. Cause how else did you actually miss the coversation and thought bubbles that explained how Kazehaya feels? How else would you have thought he knew she likes him and is stringing her along? Like you said Kazehaya knew how she feels period but Kazehaya repeatedly said how he thinks Sawako doesnt like him. So comprehension problem or skimming through the pages?

Not denying that Kimi Ni Todoke was a good story. Not am idenying Kazehaya had his own worries and insecurities. Kazehaya may have encouraged her to reach her friends and those around her, but the confusion also comes from him not taking his own adviceThis is a flaw in Kazehaya. Taking off the rose colored glasses is to recognize and acknowledge these traits in his character. He wants to reach her and her to reach him but he’s also the one who created distance at opportunities he himself set up. That push and pull lead to the development of Sawakos character but we can’t ignore the areas he fumbled (missed opportunities) to take the lead and confirm their feelings. Sawakao had to put her heart on the line more often than he. She had to step up more to reach him. They both had the same feelings but she had to make the big confession to get through to him and her she outlined her feelings in that confession. He only had to respond after she gave the reassurance of her feelings toward him. After the angst he created by not clarifying himself every time he sought Sawako to gauge her feelings. We can say he could have given more patience and listened more objectively to her response knowing it’s both awkward for them to communicate with one another. But rather than hear what he didn’t want to hear he ran away creating distance. The initiative was left to Sawako. A story is good based on the complexity of the characters. No one is denying their “beautiful relationship” just saying that he had some iffy character traits no matter how sweet he is.

You have selective reading skills. Please actually read the part where Kazehaya talked to Ryuu, Miura, Chizu, Pin and Ayane about what he feels and thinks about their situation. The way you argue made me realize you were skimming through the pages and using your eyes to just look at pretty pictures instead of actually reading. You are trying to interpret and guess what Kazehaya's intention is and what his behaviour means when it was clearly stated through his conversations and thought bubbles. Educate yourself on how to actually read and understand context clues.

Kazehaya already made the big confession multiple times. In chapter 1, he already asked her to go out with him. In a later chapter, he confessed in front of a large group of people how he feels about Sawako. He never clarified his feelings because what is there to misunderstand when you are constantly asking someone out and telling her you like her? Sawako was the one who need to make a big confession, because as you can see, shes the one whos feelings are not clear. Its clear to us readers, but not to someone who got rejected once, who never received a valentines chocolates, and who was told by the person he likes to not say he likes her because people will misunderstand. What kind of big confession do you want? He told everyone he likes her. Also, Sawako telling him to stop because people will misunderstand is kinda the same as her rejecting him. Like how else are you supposed to interpret that? He vocalized his feelings properly and his crush said she doesnt want people to misunderstand their relationship while crying? Its clear to us readers, but being in Kazehaya's shoes, it kinda sucks. Cause from his point of view, his crush doesnt want people to think theyre in a relationship so much she cried. And when Kazehaya tried to clarify if her their feelings are different, just like how Ryuu told him to do, she said yes.