I hate him too. I wish she never forgive him but that's impossible
Mmh, while I would hope Esther wouldn't forgive him* as she has the memories of being tortured for years, likely decades by them both, I do think there is a potential moral question to be had here when it concerns this lifetime of theirs.
*(and remember, you can not forgive people BUT you can still not hate them or want bad upon them. It's just apathy, you simply don't give a damn. I have plenty of people who have wronged me and caused p serious trauma but all I wish is to not interact with them, nothing more, nothing less. For me it's more freeing to not care than to feel resentful.)
[Massive spoiler warning!!!]
While they all were awful in her past lives, as what I've seen so far and where the story seems to go, we already have seen MC's bio dad and half-sister act in morally evil ways for their selfish gains, such as murdering the previous Saintess. They continue doing evil acts in this life, making their miserable ends justified.
However, if the blond guy doesn't fall victim to the manipulation and doesn't commit the acts he did in previous lives, I honestly can't fault MC for what she does. Technically it wasn't this him who committed those horrible actions - would MC even have a right to kill him when for everyone else, those atrocities never happened?
Again, that doesn't mean she needs to forgive him, and forgiving him doesn't mean she likes him or did it for his sake - but more like giving herself the ability to let go of any particular feelings regarding the subject.
You can be pissed, but I'm honestly not surprised it'll go this route - it's very much realistic and aligns with what we've seen of Esther so far and her personality. I would also struggle with the moral question of if killing him is justitified if only I remember the world where he did that, vs this is one where he never committed those crimes and is practically innocent.
Agree, but my petty ass just CANT stand this kind of personality of soft fl's. Like if she can do that for him, why can't she do the same for that other girl?? Why didn't she try to "advice" her too? Like girly from the very beginning HATED that villain girl, while only fearing Khalid and avoiding him. From the very BEGINNING, she alrdy decided to forget and forgive what he did, but she couldn't do the same to that btch. I could already tell how different she treated the both of them from the start when she returned time. She's all "I WILL TAKE REVENGE" to the girl, but when it's Khalid she's all "uwu I'm so scared, why why your my friend!! Whyyy!! Boohoo" *Runs away*.
At this point, It's just double standards from the author's part imo
And if we think about it, she should FORGIVE that girl cuz she was basically raised to be a saint, she was forced into becoming one. She's evil sure, but it was reasonable cuz she had a reason, her daddy told her that she's the saint and she basically did everything to become that saint.. while mf doofus over here blindly followed the saint ALL while seeing the saint's true colors, doing the torturing, and stabbed the fl too... And the fl is somehow a "saint" for giving him a chance?? Cuz he "didn't do it yet" ummm, neither did she?! Like she's the same!! She didn't do it yet, but that rule somehow doesn't apply to her? Again, it's just double standards.
If she forgive him, she should forgive her too.
While I do believe children are innocent at default and are influenced by the people around them, I draw the line at intentional murder. Not only has she been aware she's been feeding poison to the previous Saintess, she doesn't feel bad or guilty about it, and rather wishes for the Saintess to die quicker (and upping the amount of poison she gave her). Yes, there is a lot here that can be blamed on the author, as it is the author's choice to make her a bad person by default. She has some redeemable aspects in her backstory, but it's clear the story won't go there and she will continue to do acts for selfish purposes.
Maybe I don't feel bad because I can see how the author doesn't really care to redeem her - if she was shown to actually feel bad and/or guilty about poisoning the saintess, and continuing to question her father and everything else, I'd def be rooting dor her more. Even the small redeeming aspects haven't been enough for me to personally care about her.
It sucks a bit but again, I stand my ground on what I wrote originally. I believe the way Esther will deal with them in the future makes sense, as she can really only judge them by their actions in this life - again, one of them hasn't done anything, the other has been actively killing another person without much remorse.
I guess the only double standard I can agree on goes for general tropes of this genere rather than this story on its own - how, often, male characters that have wronged or even killed MC in the past tend to get forgiven a lot easier than female characters that have done the same, or even less. And/or male characters are often given chances to redeem themselves (ie. FMC interacts with them in childhood), but the same chances are rarely given to other female characters/og antagonists. It does suck, but honestly at some point I just stopped caring as much for these stories since I can always move on and find another story to read ╮(￣▽￣)╭
not that your complains aren't valid in terms of your opinion, I just wanted to explain my view on it and why, when contained within the story, I think these choices make sense. I will add that I'm someone who can't really feel angry and finds anger/frustration/feelings of upset super exhausting, which can also explain my attitude/view on this.
I'm so sorry for how long this became I def didn't mean to, I was just writing what came to mind and spacing it out as I wrote, not realising how long it became
Lmao nah ur opinion is def valid, and I can see that especially with her personality but idk man, the double standards is tripping me too much and her decision still does not make sense. Likeee, idk what's worse being a dumbo and just follow every demand from a saint instead of their goddess. Does this dude have no morals AT ALL? He knew her, was friends with her, and now here's over here stabbing her. I would've let it go if he had a good reason like her, like ik my girl is bad bad, but she legit has a reason. She's a villain, low-key the dad's fault too. She was praised too much and her head got too big that she became like that. But my boy khalid over here being a total smooth brain that have no special capability of having his own thoughts.
Sorry if I'm repeating too much, but I just can't wrap my mind around it.. like yes, the fl's personality is the reason she forgave Khalid, but somehow it doesn't apply to the girl too.. idk man, it just screams double standards, and the author did a bad job on hiding it. The author should've made a background story that made sense on why he somehow lost all of his common sense and morals or at least be brainwash!! But no, the author just made him a smooth brain, and made him like a pitiable character who had no thoughts inside his brain.
All in all, I'm disappointed with how the author did not even hide their hatred for women LMFAO jk jk but the author could've done a better job on his character.
That's what I'm saying, the double standards is crazy. Idk how the women in these kind of story always get the bad end of the stick, and the men(it's always the dad who is the root of the problem) always reconcile with the fl, while the mom(fl's step-mom, the legal wife) gets all the heat just cuz she hates the fl who is her husband's proof of infidelity.
I get it. I've come to hate soft MCs too. But, honestly, I'm all but indifferent to this guy who somehow gets a pass. For one thing, villainess bitch HAD TO DIE.
Poisoning previous Saintess, killing others to siphon off divinity, gaslighting people about her goodness... she's just completely morally bankrupt. As for the guy, he just feels like a puppet. Yes he's aware of wrong stuff happening but he has no moral ground. He could do good. He could do bad. He's so easily controlled that he's nothing to me. Just a character to 'spice up' the story. Not sure if I'm making sense here. I find his character to be ill used and not really effective. As I remember it, he does almost nothing different in this life. I think he follows bitch's commands at one point and last minute changes his mind and it doesn't really make him redeemable.
I like that he's alive. Let him live in guilt that he was somehow a part of that evil too coz he has no spine. So eager to do right that he completely missed the mark.
Except... #spoiler
Lavienne and her Father won't be killed, they will try to kidnapp and use blood again from Esther, (⊙…⊙ ) etc... Aaaaand she (Esther) will be thinking to herself that even thought she can't totally blame "this" Kahlid, she can't forgive him either... Where did you see the opposite ? (The Brions dying and khalid forgiven ?
Imo, that's sht. Cuz to make it plain and simple(sorry I keep repeating this), if the fl can forgive that evil bitch, why can't she do the same to that evil bitch's puppet? She has so much intense feelings towards him, feeling all "omg omg ur my friend!!!! How could u, boohoo" and then runs away. All while, when she saw her other friend(the villain), she's all "I WILL TAKE REVENGE!!!!!".. it's literally just double standards. Your reasoning for liking the fact that he's alive, shouldn't that also apply to her too no? Obv, she's not the spinless with no original thought like that bafoon, but she's the one doing the orders and basically the mastermind(well.. her dad is technically cuz he made her like that). She should try to live out exiled from the kingdom, just surviving out there and seeing the person she tortured being happy and living their best life? Just like u said, he's so eager to do the right, then for her case, she's so eager to be the best saintess(for her dad) that she completely missed the mark.
Anyways, in conclusion I'm complaining more so with the fact that this manhwa falls under the double standards category. If we're rllyy thinking about it, HE'S the dangerous one. Cuz he has no thoughts nor morals AT ALL and just follows someone loyally. Whilst the villain girl has a her own thoughts, hence why she did those things cuz she's just damn evil.
Btch, this is a DROP for me. I knew fl was soft, but ig she has double standards idk. At the end, the btch villain girl gets killed off a long with her dad, and Khalid only gets his position as a paladin revoke.. THATS IT.
Mf only got a slap on the wrist cuz boohoo, he did not know any better and only believed the words of the saint, and not the gods. MF WATCHED HIS FRIEND GET TORTURED, BUT FL STILL ADVICED HIM AND BASICALLY LETS HIM FREE... Like all I feel like is the fl loved him as a child cuz he was her friend awww AS IF BTCH, like if you could forgive him, why not do the same to that btch too?? I mean, she was also her "friend". Both of ur friends still betrayed u at the end tho. A lot r saying that it's cuz his just a fool following along that btch, and he didn't do much but this btches forgot that he was literally FRIENDS with the fl, WATCHED her get tortured, and let's not forget he KNEW the true colors of that blonde btch too. But miraculously, the fl forgot this dude, as if the girl isn't basically the same as him. Sure, he only followed what she ordered, but that doesn't mean he's innocent either hello???? Did the fl forgot that he was the one who stabbed her?? HUH??? And for those who come to defend the foolish fl, that blonde btch also got a sad backstory. As a child, she was basically told that she's the saint and greedy kid wanted to make her daddy proud so she did. She did all sorts of crazy sht, but oh boy oh boy.. here's comes Khalid with his smooth brain. He was basically a fool for blindly following the temple instead of pointing his beliefs towards the goddess. THATS IT. Ugh, so disappointed. I bet the author wanted him to be the ml, but knew if she did she would get the same treatment as the author in abandoned empress.