So curious how that works, isn't it. What a wonderful friendship they share, covering each other's backs. Shall we write a BL about this lovely couple?
Hey, Shielded Guard, I see your friend Persistent Quill has returned, even though they've blocked me. Can you please ask them to go read and evaluate my notes on the first four chapters of Jinx, point out to me specifically where I'm wrong/what details I've missed, and have them answer my question as to how and why what took place between Jaekyung and Dan wasn't rape? I'd also appreciate it if you clarified to them that I do in fact care about the facts of the matter. I think that is made abundantly, evidently clear by the fact that I was willing to go out of my way to go reread the first four chapters in case I forgot anything, take notes on those first four chapters, and research several different legal definitions of both the terms rape and sexual assault. Here, I will paste my notes and my question again, so you can forward it to them for me. Eagerly looking forward to your replies.
chapter 1
- dan witnesses jaekyung uncontrollably beat the shit outta someone off the bat in ch. 1, contributing to preexisting fear of physical violence from him. granted though this was not jaekyung’s intention (debatable honestly) and does also count towards why dan could’ve/should’ve known to say no to the agreement
- jaekyung is just overall physically intimidating whether he’s trying to be or not. this isn’t his fault but there’s no question that he uses this to try to get his way in situations
- uh. dan was hired as a pt. not even by jaekyung himself but by his manager? ch. 1
- dan is there for the conversation about jaekyung having knocked the previous pt out. point for he should’ve/could’ve left earlier, but also point for jaekyung (inadvertently here, granted) using threats of physical violence to intimidate, which could contribute to a coerced yes later
- dan comes to the conclusion that if he doesn’t do well, he will have physical violence used against him. jaekyung’s manager basically confirms this saying as long as dan doesn’t do anything to get on his nerves, he’ll be fine
- dan has a history of being physically abused, as such he will do anything he can to avoid it happening. that said jaekyung doesn’t know about this at this point (ch. 1)
- personally this…i feel like jaekyung picks out dan as his next target precisely because he’s a “little wimp” as he describes him after that first sesh
- as stated before dan is having to work multiple jobs to maintain himself which again highlights the sheer power differential between these two (can i clarify and say—jaekyang is not solely responsible for the sex being ultimately nonconsenual if that makes sense and i feel like this is what i was really trying to argue. we’ll see)
- dan is just so. self-blaming nothing to do with jaekyang yet but brother
- dan’s job prospects got fucked because of his previous boss, who was caught sexually assaulting him, but ended up getting him fired and spreading rumors about him. this contributes further to how desperate dan’s situation is hence why he is not given a meaningful choice (again, not ALL jaekyang’s fault)
- dan can’t afford to up and move somewhere where he might have better prospects idk how many times ill list down “he doesn’t have a real choice because he’s poor not because of jaekyung specifically although jaekyung doesn’t help”
- dan feeling unsafe everywhere. nothing to necessarily do with anything yet just an interesting detail
- dan is/would’ve been stuck between a rock and a hard place, getting beaten up by the loan sharks or getting raped or assaulted or whatever by jaekyung
- jaekyung lies to dan about his treatment to lure him to his appointment i guess you can argue dan should’ve used his common sense here but that feels victim blamey and if we can critique dan for lying about his experience we can certainly critique jaekyung for lying about why he was calling dan to his house
- dan says no to going to the apartment, jaekyung offers him more money for him to go (bribery more than coercion though lol but…considering that this is kind of a trap,)
chapter 2
- jaekyung…had someone else he was fucking already? who was willing? why switch to dan all of a sudden?
- dan again witnesses jaekyung use an disproportionate amount of physical violence (slamming guy’s head into a wall) AND a death threat against someone because of a slight provocation. again, this counts towards both “dan should’ve known better and left” and “dan likely (rightly) felt too intimidated to say no”
- jaekyung definitely does find dan physically attractive but we still don’t know why he decided to quit his previous partner for him
- jaekyung does try to get a vibe check on what dan might think/how he might feel about being propositioned
- the jinx in and of itself is a fundamentally fucking stupid plot device so let’s start there. we don’t know if it’s real or not we don’t get any real explanation for it other than that it exists. it exists to justify jaekyung’s sex-pesty behavior though, that’s for sure. you can interpret it as also another method of coercion—what he’s saying is that if he loses, it will have been dan’s fault. this of course puts a disproportionate amount of pressure on dan but maybe im getting ahead of myself
- jaekyung physically grabs dan. nothing violent yet though but this is yknow. erm
- jaekyung does indeed give dan the choice to leave if he doesn’t want to have sex But the added consequence is no money. as noted before this guy lied in the first place. also note the language use: “guess you don’t **need** that five grand after all” just…interesting
- again, dan’s circumstances make his yes not a meaningful yes. that isn’t specifically entirely jaekyung’s fault but ***jaekyung does not help.***
chapter 3
ch. 3
- jaekyung does indeed ask if dan has been with a man before. he follows up with “i suppose it doesn’t actually matter.” now again dan should’ve been honest he is responsible for that but also, jaekyung, if he actually gave a fuck, wouldn’t just assume things—especially with the non-answer dan gives, the hesitance he shows
- dan did just lie though. stupid bitch. you could say this counts against him but you could also attribute his feeling of having to lie to not only his own personal psychology but, again, the various shows of violence and intimidation jaekyung had performed beforehand
- jaekyung uses physical force on dan to get him out of the shower and throw him onto the bed after he takes too long in the shower. again dan ain’t sign up for allat. again jaekyung could’ve/should’ve checked in properly here but whatever it’s his character
- threatens to break dan’s ankle when he struggles and asks him to wait
- I GET THIS IS FANTASY BUT I DON’T CARE HOW EXPERIENCED SOMEONE IS YOU DO NOT SHOVE A COCK UP THEIR ASS NO PREP ESPECIALLY NOT A MONSTER COCK. THIS GUY JUST WANTED TO HURT HIM. “DISCOMFORT” DURING SEX MY ASS? NO PUN INTENDED?
- threatens violence again (“if you waste my time like that last little bitch, don’t expect to be sent home safe and sound”) when dan says he can’t actually go through with the sex, prompting dan to think of. the guy getting his face smashed into a wall.
- dan explicitly asks jaekyung “then how do i do this? if you just put it in, i think i’ll tear.” personally i once again think that this should have been a red flag to anyone who cares about the virginal status of their partner but. ok
- jaekyung says “last chance, no more mr. nice guy after this” which is another threat/intimidation tactic. he does tell dan to leave if he can’t handle prep. but this followed after the threat of getting his shit rocked if he’s too slow.
- do you really read all this and then read dan going “well i asked for it” and think “yep he sure did!” and not feel bad. at all. and like something isn’t right here.
- again jaekyung uses physical force on dan when he’s going too slow for his liking
- dan sure does ask for jaekyung to fuck his ass. after being roughly fingered
- dan tells jaekyung that it hurts and asks jaekyung to stop, jaekyung does not stop. jaekyung in fact proceeds to shove dan’s head into the mattress and say, “keep testing my patience, and i’ll smash your head in” followed by “just shut up and take it”
chapter 4
- dan tries to crawl away from jaekyung, jaekyung slams into him
- very hard pressed to read jaekyung’s response here as being one of concern/sympathy (“what the, are you crying? over that? i barely even put it in!”) it is if anything belittling. again dan is responsible for being honest but jaekyung is responsible for creating a space where he feels safe to be honest. besides that, jaekyung would’ve actually asked if he was okay instead of pounding into him
- jaekyung pounds into him, explicitly saying that he likes seeing dan cry, and that the tears won’t make him go easy on him
- jaekyung does…”check in” on dan, dan foolishly says he can take it.
- speaking of dan lying, when jaekyung says he’s had a bunch of cocks before, dan says that isn’t the case
- dan asks jaekyung to be gentler, jaekyung tells him to shut up and then goes harder and even covers his mouth so y’know even if he wanted to say no he couldn’t that’s very consensual to me
several different websites define rape, legally, to involve nonconsensual sexual intercourse (penetration) being done to another person by means of force—force being psychological coercion, threats, use of drugs, and/or use of physical force.
several websites define sexual assault (if/when there is a distinction between it and rape) as generally making contact with someone’s intimate body parts without their consent.
given that jaekyung used deception and intimidation (coercion) before if not also throughout their first interaction with one another, given that jaekyung repeatedly threatened physical violence and also used physical violence on dan, given that jaekyung penetrated dan, and given that dan repeatedly expressed, physically and verbally, his non-consent to jaekyung, only to have them all completely ignored if not responded to with even more threats and/or uses of physical violence—why would jaekyung’s actions against dan in at least these very first four chapters not fall under even the legal definition of rape?
how about instead of seeing what stuff SG and PQ say, we just talk to each other, yeah? See I'm interested about your opinion about whether or not you think Jinx is similar to Painter of the Night if you've read or heard of that and if you can tell the difference between the two?
Oh I'm going to keep pressing them, personally. But we can do two things at once. That said, I haven't read Painter of the Night in a hot second (like, it has to have been years now, tbh I don't really read BL Manhwa much at all anymore this was just. a particular case of my wretched curiosity and desire to be right dooming me) and I never finished it, so I can't really compare the two. From what little I do remember, though, I feel as if it likely struggled with the same things that Jinx does—a story which has genuinely interesting and worthwhile themes to explore, but sacrifices those things in the interest of creating a much less interesting, much less believable love story between two people who for all intents and purposes not at all be with each other. Like isn't there a wildly unbalanced power dynamic in that one, too?
There is indeed but I am friends with people who have read it entirely and they can admit that there was abuse and rape but also that the redemption they did for Sanho was worthwhile FOR THEM but of course, it would make sense if people don't wanna keep reading.
I wasn't getting as enraged at it as I was at Jinx because of that assurance maybe and I think also with the agreement that yeah, this has problematic sex stuff in it. The reason Jinx has been infuriating to me is because of all the people who try to bend reality.
It's kind of the same frustration I have with ACOTAR (A Court of Thorns and Roses series) where people deny the actual abuse that one character did to the other and claim people don't like it because "the main couple are grey morally characters" no I don't like it because the guy sexually abused his future girl and then gaslit her into believing it was for her own protection when he literally didn't need to do all that nonsense.
LMAOOO They really just googled how to report cyberstalking and didn't think to search what the IC3 actually does. No, idiot, they do not pursue cases where no monetary harm or bodily threats have been made. Chasing trolls on a manga site would be waste of federal resources <<<< This is how they "research" everything. This is why their responses lack substance. They don't care about understanding the material. They just want a google link to spam and a quote to copypaste.
Yes you would be wasting your time arguing with me, because I always look the other way when people give me proof of Jaekyung clearly raping Dan. I am demented on a level you wouldn't understand as I have all the time in the world to waste on Mangago. I have no job or kids or a significant other that I claim I have. The proof is in this comment section, I am always lurking and responding without missing a beat. I was formally known as Morning diamonds, the rape defender and self admitted pedophile.
I didn't notice how long this thread was oops And that guy has actually tried to differentiate different kinds of pedophilia to excuse himself for talking to a 16yo inappropriately here on mangago. he was so serious too, he even started by denying rape AND sexual assault at first, but after way too many people started shitting on him he settled for SA. Just like how he denied using chatgpt for the longest time until it was more than obvious and embarrassing he was using it. That's how his brain works, even when he's always in the wrong, by having the last word he thinks he's correct
That's the account he created to impersonate and harass someone, then a minor, then changed it to several other chatgpt generated names and now this LMAOO HE ALWAYS COMES BACK BACKING HIMSELF UP WHEN HE FEELS THREATENED
His rape crisis counselor is literally his alt account TMSM where he, still to this day, proudly stands by his opinion that women fantasizing about rape is normal and healthy blocking everyone who comments on that thread leaving only all his alts account to spam the replies. To support that bs article he believes in, he created a fake rape victim BelovedRose to garner sympathy then coming to his main accounts' defense that what Jaekyung did to Dan is nowhere near rape, he was obviously caught by everyone for using alts. He would do that, but when actual victims of rape try to have a civil discussion, he would harass and mock them and disappear when both of us shared links to the exact panels where Mingwa depicted rape.
This comment was my last comment. The comments that follow as "Persistent Quill" are from a cyberstalker attempting to steal my identity. They are spreading falsehoods and pretending to be their targets, engaging in deflection and gaslighting. Please don't engage with these comments. I will change my name each time they copy me to avoid further confusion.
The harassment here is from a group that can't accept differing opinions, resorting to cyberstalking to silence or force others into their views. This behavior is immature and harmful.
I do take into consideration, this topic has people from that hate group, and since Akaito is claiming they will continue to "press" us, it's clear they are close to the cyberstalkers who thinks the same way. Who makes trying to have conversations equal to being "pressed"? Who cyberstalks to force people into an opinion with falsehoods and false claims? It's unsettling to want to press someone, especially to cyberstalk them with falsehoods.
Let's avoid further conflict and focus on respectful and constructive discussions.
The fact Morning diamonds has ignored your 10+ requests to refute your chap analyses after you politely asked and pasted it so many times it feels like deja vu all over again That's typical of him he would make up bullshit excuses and leave AS SOON as the facts are shared after a long back and forth. He and his alts just conveniently need to leave then. He did this to me and I saw this happen so many times. You're a boss bitch
LMAOO Now these new users whom MD hasn't talked to yet are ALSO ME How many accounts does that make? over 50 that I own? Or maybe just maybe the reason that literally NO ONE is by your side (and the fact that you need to log into alt accounts since the comments opened) is because your rape defending views are not shared by everyone else? I know yourself that you'd feel too embarrassed to acknowledge that everyone is a seperate person. The fact that I still never DMed Bailey and only knew of her after she outed you for attempting to groom her and your sole explanation is that we conspired together proves to me that it's all true. If the public replies you made claiming paedophilia is 13 and below wasn't enough Thanks tho for always leaving when you can't yap your way out of disproving Jaekyung raped Dan tho, you've always been predictable. Reverse psychology works so well on you too.
Chatgpt pwease genewate me 10 mowe cwool 2 wowded usernames pwease :3 These scawy people aw back :cc
@everyone.
I am not Morning Diamonds. The cyberstalkers are obsessed with Morning Diamonds and are spreading false information. They ignore how Akaito treated me. The supposed 'polite' requests were not sincere, as Akaito consistently attacked me and others, telling someone else they were 'full of shit.' Akaito shuts people down with hostile behavior as the cyberstalkers do. In those situations, Morning Diamonds had already left the conversation or was being attacked. Morning Diamonds only has two accounts, and one of them can't be accessed. The cyberstalkers are playing the same intimidation tactics as always.
It is Akaito’s fault like many others why we leave. We don’t need be in an unproductive situation with only harassment and insincerity with they are “polite” after insulting others. Noted SG gave terms for Akaito before SG engaged with it. Akaito fell short. Showing it is Akaito’s fault no one talked to them about their summary. We left to protect ourselves from harassment.
Claiming someone is a 'boss bitch' while spreading falsehoods and engaging in harassment is not something to be proud of. This kind of behavior only perpetuates a toxic and harmful environment. Please be aware and don't engage with their misinformation.
You were clear! This shows the cyberstalkers are spreading misinformation and falsehoods on their targets.
Akaito did not try. Akaito is not interested in a conversation. They only want to harass us to feel better about themselves.
The projection is crazy as always The one who never answers questions or engages in discussion let alone a civil conversation is talking about the people who were more than patient and polite with him. That's what a huge ego that refuses to leave his hill does to someone. And when that hill consists of denying rape to a fictional and real people, it becomes more concerning. I just read this thread, and you aka Morning diamonds (another point you're being in denial of bc your past username you've carried for years is so notorious and hated but you will never be able to start over) are guilty of everything you're accusing the other users of doing. I know you're aware of that
Embarrassing as hell to still be talking to your alt account, you'd look slightly less worse if you just took it to the chin that you have exactly 0 supporters. But I guess you got used to that seeing as you've been taking solace by faking chats with yourself.
The last comment from "Determined. Writer" is from a cyberstalker attempting to steal my identity. They are spreading falsehoods and pretending to be their targets, engaging in deflection and gaslighting. Please don't engage with these comments. I will change my name each time they copy me to avoid further confusion.
They will copy this one too. They probably will copy and paste this post. So look at the accounts. We have different account creations and have different topics. They are aggressive and hostile obsessed with their targets as their targets try to engage in respectful conversation.
Morning diamonds account isn’t a year old yet. Lol. Their stories are funny and fantasy.
Intimidation? Are you saying you're intimidated that I'm bringing up facts here?
Nothing to add for now, the time, space, and energy I would need to detail all of my thoughts on all this exceeds every limit presented to me here. I need to see the story to completion before I make any final judgements. It did some things that I thought were genuinely interesting and praiseworthy at first and then began to fumble the bag with stupid plot devices and, well, mishandling the things it’d been doing well at first.
Look. If you’re into rape/non-con that’s fine. If you’re into the toxic shit that’s fine, so long as you understand that that is, in fact, what you’re reading. I’ll self-disclose and say I, too, enjoy those things (in a purely fictional context). But the fact that I am seeing several people in these comments trying to argue that what Jaekyung is/has been doing throughout this Webtoon WASN’T rape is deeply, deeply concerning to me. Usually I would blame the author for framing things in such a way as to make things ambiguous for reasons that have little to do with the story. But it is not the case here. Jaekyang is a wealthy man with status and power, physical and otherwise. He used those qualities from the get go and all throughout the Webtoon in order to get Dan, someone in a ridiculously desperate financial situation and with no leverage of his own to have sex with him. That is the gross abuse of power being used to coerce someone otherwise completely unwilling to have sex with you—that is rape. And it is a real and horrific thing that happens ALL the time in reality.
So don’t come at me with “technicalities” about this shit just because it’s fiction or whatever the fuck, because some of y’all aren’t talking about this as if it is, some of y’all aren’t applying nuance to this for the sake of having a worthwhile conversation. It’s genuinely scary to me that some of you seem to be unaware of the precise nature of what is going on here. Not that you’re reading the Webtoon, but that you don’t seem to be understanding it. It’s emblematic of many cultures’ poor sex ed and poor attitudes towards sex and consent. Because I don’t think anyone who has been educated enough should be able to walk away from this being unable to distinguish between rape and actual, consensual sex, especially when it is as clear-cut as it is here. I DO have to worry about how you guys would react to hearing someone in your real life in this kind of situation, or, and I hope it is never, ever the case, YOU being in this situation. Would you excuse it? Because you “agreed” to it? Would you relentlessly blame yourself like Dan does? Would you really be able to articulate your experience to get the help you need? Would you be able to respond well to someone else in this situation?