Also no one here has threatened physical harm, no one has your location, no one even has your ip or accounts or passwords etc. I haven't even looked at PQ or SG's profiles explicitly. What about what's going on in this public thread constitutes cyberstalking?
PQ,
You have another fan. Who loves you so much to be spreading misinformation and making some pretty harsh claims. Their argument seems to be rooted in misunderstanding and personal bias. They’re criticizing you and the fandom for defending a piece of fiction that they believe is problematic, but their approach and arguments don’t address the actual points of contention accurately.
The person criticizing you appears to be misunderstanding the arguments and focusing more on personal attacks rather than engaging with the actual points being discussed. The person making these claims appears to be using their own experience to invalidate others' views and contributions, which can be really damaging and unproductive. It’s also clear that they’re not engaging with the actual arguments being made but rather attacking individuals personally.
But they cooked and ate.
DarkenedHowl grabs a whip.
"My good friend @ANG3LG0R3 directed me here and good to see that brain rotting is still alive and kicking."
Swing the whip to harm someone. Slash.
"I am so confused on why people go to such lengths to insist that Jinx has no rape."
Maybe a respectful dialogue with help with that.
" thus this stupid fictional comic must be defended to the death."
Darkenedhowl gribs the whip in their hands, I have to pretend they are defending this to death as I beat someone into submit as i defend my opinion because I need rape to be in the story I hate so much.
"As someone who's experienced a "low level" form of sexual assault that cannot be legally defined as rape and has been traumatized by the experience, I find Persistent Quill to be not only a hack and a lazy writer but also, the point that they are defending is pretty pointless which is too bad because their name is "quill".
Slash. Slash. Slash. Slash. PQ you must be a good writer and they hate it. Why do they think you are defending this? They are beating you into submission because they are defending to have a story be labeled rape. I think it is lazy to attack people instead of enanging in a meaningful converstaion as it is harder to be productive.
" he is totally not abusing Dan to be very uneducated people who feel they have to perform social justice in their fandoms to be considered good people which is pretty sad. "
I never seen that but their opinion about othes is awful.
"Just enjoy your problematic fiction and admit it's problematic fiction (with rape) and we are all good!"
Again making you a fan to attack you. They are trying to control you. All the targets say it is problematic, so they are using a strawman here. But they are forcing their opinions on people. It will not be rape no matter how much they beat someone with a whip.
This is the one that Akaito says they cooked and ate? It’s unfortunate that instead of having a respectful and productive dialogue, they resort to harsh criticism and personal attacks to harm others.
PQ, This comment took me about 4 hours to write. It was up to 4 pages in Word. I am glad I wrote to you. I would have wasted my time otherwise. The discussion seems to be driven by personal bias, with individuals using their frustration to attack you rather than engaging in a fair dialogue.
It’s unfortunate that they’re resorting to bullying and trying to undermine you. Their approach seems to be more about tearing you down than addressing the actual issues. This kind of behavior is not only unproductive but also quite distressing to witness.
Please know that their attempts to harm you are failing, and their actions reflect poorly on them rather than on you. Keep doing what you’re doing and stay strong in the face of this negativity.
You keep not answering me. Answer me. Use specific evidence. What events of the story prove that Jaekyung did not rape Dannin the first four chapters of this Webtoon. Do you need me to copy paste my notes again?
"When we shift from writing to a person to speaking generally to others reading our messages, it indicates that we recognize there is no productive conversation possible with them and given a situation we could be merely facing harassment from them."
We will address the misinformation from the aggressors but we will not talk to them. We will not engage people in bad faith.
I’ve given you my analysis of the chapters. I’m asking you to clarify your viewpoint too, now, with evidence. Explain it to me. Let’s address the actual issue of whether or not there is rape in Jinx. Prove to me that there isn’t rape, prove to me that I’m wrong.
Again, Shielded Guard, how does Jinx not have rape according to the article you posted? Why is it important to prove Jaekyung does not commit rape? I will continue to ask every time you post your long posts trying to debunk me or others disagreeing with you.
It's very interesting that Shielded Guard is continuing to post in a topic thread while blocking almost all commenters including the author. Are they going to keep talking to themselves or will they actually engage in a discussion finally? I'm willing to talk with them, and I promise I'll only make one (1) joke at some point at their expense.
THEY BLOCKED ME?
I've provided you with the legal definition of rape and a summary of events that I think are relevant to the discussion at hand. Tell me if and how the events disagree with the legal definition of rape.
@PT did Akaito forget what happen?
"When we shift from writing to a person to speaking generally to others reading our messages, it indicates that we recognize there is no productive conversation possible with them and given a situation we could be merely facing harassment from them."
We will address the misinformation from the aggressors but we will not talk to them. We will not engage people in bad faith.
Akaito picked up the whip.
"I'll be honest, I was aggressive with you at first because not only did I find your responses to be repulsive, but also because I did immediately have the feeling that I was speaking to someone generating responses rather than someone actually using their own words."
Akaito starts to beat PQ with personal attacks and misinformation.. Slash Slash. We have explain they are not generating responses how many times. Akaito dismissing our words. Slash.
"One that I thought was arguing in a very soulless way about something so incredibly personal, so incredibly important, like rape and sexual assault."
Slash
"I went out of my way to explain how you were coming across,"
Slash with bias opinions.
"I wanted you to know and understand how you were sounding so that you would have the opportunity to change tactics."
Tones are subjective and determined by the reader's feelings That is their feelings and not the truth. SLASH.
"Several times I asked you clarifying questions, not because I was trying to be annoying or shut you down or immediately just to prove you wrong, but because I was trying to understand where you were coming from, because I was having genuine trouble understanding where you were coming from and why."
Slash with lies. Trying to make PQ the one in the wrong when Aka caused the problems with how they feel about things. Instead of talking they attacked.
"you responded by only continuing to point out the logical fallacies "
To stop the conversation from derailing and to be treated like a human.
Slash.
Slash.
Slash with a foolish argument on ChatGPT that don't reflect PQ behaviors.
Slash with a condictiory line.
"Your crime was talking about rape and sexual assault in an insensitive manner."
SLASH! what a lie. Does aka understand objective reporting? They seem like they have some undergrad experience. Their personal biases are getting in the way.
"Your crime was not being upfront with me."
Slash
"Your crime was not taking this conversation or any others you've been having with anyone else thus far seriously enough to engage with your own words and thoughts."
SLASH SLASH You are serious and you did engage with you own words and thoughts. Again, how many times should something be said to an English major for them to get it? it should not be as many times as it has been.
"Jaekyung raped Dan. ChatGPT is a terrible tool to use to engage in nuanced discussion. If you do not understand these things, I can only wish you luck in this life""
Slash Slash
Akaito is so wrapped up in that ChatGPT nonsense that they do not see what they are saying to a SA survivor. I am sorry for the harassment you are facing for being so thoughtful and polite. If this was reversed I don't think Aka would stay as calm and respectful as you have been dealing with harassment from them. They would probably attack and leave instead of trying to get some common ground and have a conversation.
Two other survivors of SA have agreed with me so far. 1 vs. 2. The ball is in your court. Answer me. Tell me why there is no rape in Jinx. I've provided you with the definitions. Here I am asking for the substance of your argument. Give it to me, use that whip of yours, bleed me out with it.
I thought they said they did but I guess they didn't lol
Persistent Quill did, Shielded Guardian hasn't yet.
Okay. I cleared some misunderstandings. I stopped on page 6. I read some of it but it sesms to be the same. I’ve spent a lot of time reviewing the comments and trying to address the misunderstandings, but it seems like we’re dealing with individuals who are more interested in personal attacks than in genuine dialogue.
I get they don't understand we don't talk to people acting in bad-faith. They need to address the issues without resorting to personal attacks and harassment. They need to show they are acting in good faith before I start talking to them. Furthermore, I think they should apologize to us to acknowledge how harmful and creepy they are being. I don't feel comfortable talking to them.
If they want answers they need to begin the process of restoring trust and respect. They lost that.
And I have to say they take anything to attack you. DarkenedHowl is taking where I corrected the sockpuppets misinformation and trying to apply it to now.
Baileybot page 4. "reminded me of something funny. PQ and his alts threatened to report his trolls to the FBI's Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3)" Reminded. Threatened. Past tense.
My comment page 5. mentioned. part tense.
The harassment started over a year ago.
The cyberstalking with stealing identities happened in February.
MD said this in March? The cyberstalking has been ongoing and Baileybot is a sockpuppet for the cyberstalkers.
Maybe that would help their confusing. They could had asked instead making foolish comments trying to debunk anything. That is when you know they are only here to fight and degrade others to feel about themselves.
Really? "Two other survivors of SA have agreed with me so far. 1 vs. 2." The argument about comparing survivor experiences is unproductive. It’s not about winning or having the most survivors agree with you; it’s about addressing the issue respectfully and accurately. Using survivor experiences to argue who is “right” is not only harmful but also bizarre and counterproductive.
If that is things are decided, which is not, thankfully, I wished Rose was here. Then they would have a rape survivor saying this is not rape. She was raped. That is so bizarre. Wait Rose would never use her experience for this. I am leaving this conversation until i see them acting in good faith but this may bring in more bad-faith actors. I am not interested in being harassed for them to feel better about themselves.
Oh so you didn't even READ Jinx! Gotcha
Cool, take some time away from the thread, do that.
Anyways, Jinx does have rape in it and PQ literally debunked themselves. ╮(￣▽￣)╭
All the other times I asked you to respond to me directly, respond to my questions, and you pick the one time I say something slightly off-beat but true to try to discredit me. That's disingenuous. Here is my chapter summary and my definitions again. Rather than using respectability politics and tone policing me, point out to me where and why and how I am wrong.
chapter 1
- dan witnesses jaekyung uncontrollably beat the shit outta someone off the bat in ch. 1, contributing to preexisting fear of physical violence from him. granted though this was not jaekyung’s intention (debatable honestly) and does also count towards why dan could’ve/should’ve known to say no to the agreement
- jaekyung is just overall physically intimidating whether he’s trying to be or not. this isn’t his fault but there’s no question that he uses this to try to get his way in situations
- uh. dan was hired as a pt. not even by jaekyung himself but by his manager? ch. 1
- dan is there for the conversation about jaekyung having knocked the previous pt out. point for he should’ve/could’ve left earlier, but also point for jaekyung (inadvertently here, granted) using threats of physical violence to intimidate, which could contribute to a coerced yes later
- dan comes to the conclusion that if he doesn’t do well, he will have physical violence used against him. jaekyung’s manager basically confirms this saying as long as dan doesn’t do anything to get on his nerves, he’ll be fine
- dan has a history of being physically abused, as such he will do anything he can to avoid it happening. that said jaekyung doesn’t know about this at this point (ch. 1)
- personally this…i feel like jaekyung picks out dan as his next target precisely because he’s a “little wimp” as he describes him after that first sesh
- as stated before dan is having to work multiple jobs to maintain himself which again highlights the sheer power differential between these two (can i clarify and say—jaekyang is not solely responsible for the sex being ultimately nonconsenual if that makes sense and i feel like this is what i was really trying to argue. we’ll see)
- dan is just so. self-blaming nothing to do with jaekyang yet but brother
- dan’s job prospects got fucked because of his previous boss, who was caught sexually assaulting him, but ended up getting him fired and spreading rumors about him. this contributes further to how desperate dan’s situation is hence why he is not given a meaningful choice (again, not ALL jaekyang’s fault)
- dan can’t afford to up and move somewhere where he might have better prospects idk how many times ill list down “he doesn’t have a real choice because he’s poor not because of jaekyung specifically although jaekyung doesn’t help”
- dan feeling unsafe everywhere. nothing to necessarily do with anything yet just an interesting detail
- dan is/would’ve been stuck between a rock and a hard place, getting beaten up by the loan sharks or getting raped or assaulted or whatever by jaekyung
- jaekyung lies to dan about his treatment to lure him to his appointment i guess you can argue dan should’ve used his common sense here but that feels victim blamey and if we can critique dan for lying about his experience we can certainly critique jaekyung for lying about why he was calling dan to his house
- dan says no to going to the apartment, jaekyung offers him more money for him to go (bribery more than coercion though lol but…considering that this is kind of a trap,)
chapter 2
- jaekyung…had someone else he was fucking already? who was willing? why switch to dan all of a sudden?
- dan again witnesses jaekyung use an disproportionate amount of physical violence (slamming guy’s head into a wall) AND a death threat against someone because of a slight provocation. again, this counts towards both “dan should’ve known better and left” and “dan likely (rightly) felt too intimidated to say no”
- jaekyung definitely does find dan physically attractive but we still don’t know why he decided to quit his previous partner for him
- jaekyung does try to get a vibe check on what dan might think/how he might feel about being propositioned
- the jinx in and of itself is a fundamentally fucking stupid plot device so let’s start there. we don’t know if it’s real or not we don’t get any real explanation for it other than that it exists. it exists to justify jaekyung’s sex-pesty behavior though, that’s for sure. you can interpret it as also another method of coercion—what he’s saying is that if he loses, it will have been dan’s fault. this of course puts a disproportionate amount of pressure on dan but maybe im getting ahead of myself
- jaekyung physically grabs dan. nothing violent yet though but this is yknow. erm
- jaekyung does indeed give dan the choice to leave if he doesn’t want to have sex But the added consequence is no money. as noted before this guy lied in the first place. also note the language use: “guess you don’t **need** that five grand after all” just…interesting
- again, dan’s circumstances make his yes not a meaningful yes. that isn’t specifically entirely jaekyung’s fault but ***jaekyung does not help.***
chapter 3
ch. 3
- jaekyung does indeed ask if dan has been with a man before. he follows up with “i suppose it doesn’t actually matter.” now again dan should’ve been honest he is responsible for that but also, jaekyung, if he actually gave a fuck, wouldn’t just assume things—especially with the non-answer dan gives, the hesitance he shows
- dan did just lie though. stupid bitch. you could say this counts against him but you could also attribute his feeling of having to lie to not only his own personal psychology but, again, the various shows of violence and intimidation jaekyung had performed beforehand
- jaekyung uses physical force on dan to get him out of the shower and throw him onto the bed after he takes too long in the shower. again dan ain’t sign up for allat. again jaekyung could’ve/should’ve checked in properly here but whatever it’s his character
- threatens to break dan’s ankle when he struggles and asks him to wait
- I GET THIS IS FANTASY BUT I DON’T CARE HOW EXPERIENCED SOMEONE IS YOU DO NOT SHOVE A COCK UP THEIR ASS NO PREP ESPECIALLY NOT A MONSTER COCK. THIS GUY JUST WANTED TO HURT HIM. “DISCOMFORT” DURING SEX MY ASS? NO PUN INTENDED?
- threatens violence again (“if you waste my time like that last little bitch, don’t expect to be sent home safe and sound”) when dan says he can’t actually go through with the sex, prompting dan to think of. the guy getting his face smashed into a wall.
- dan explicitly asks jaekyung “then how do i do this? if you just put it in, i think i’ll tear.” personally i once again think that this should have been a red flag to anyone who cares about the virginal status of their partner but. ok
- jaekyung says “last chance, no more mr. nice guy after this” which is another threat/intimidation tactic. he does tell dan to leave if he can’t handle prep. but this followed after the threat of getting his shit rocked if he’s too slow.
- do you really read all this and then read dan going “well i asked for it” and think “yep he sure did!” and not feel bad. at all. and like something isn’t right here.
- again jaekyung uses physical force on dan when he’s going too slow for his liking
- dan sure does ask for jaekyung to fuck his ass. after being roughly fingered
- dan tells jaekyung that it hurts and asks jaekyung to stop, jaekyung does not stop. jaekyung in fact proceeds to shove dan’s head into the mattress and say, “keep testing my patience, and i’ll smash your head in” followed by “just shut up and take it”
chapter 4
- dan tries to crawl away from jaekyung, jaekyung slams into him
- very hard pressed to read jaekyung’s response here as being one of concern/sympathy (“what the, are you crying? over that? i barely even put it in!”) it is if anything belittling. again dan is responsible for being honest but jaekyung is responsible for creating a space where he feels safe to be honest. besides that, jaekyung would’ve actually asked if he was okay instead of pounding into him
- jaekyung pounds into him, explicitly saying that he likes seeing dan cry, and that the tears won’t make him go easy on him
- jaekyung does…”check in” on dan, dan foolishly says he can take it.
- speaking of dan lying, when jaekyung says he’s had a bunch of cocks before, dan says that isn’t the case
- dan asks jaekyung to be gentler, jaekyung tells him to shut up and then goes harder and even covers his mouth so y’know even if he wanted to say no he couldn’t that’s very consensual to me
given that jaekyung used deception and intimidation (coercion) before if not also throughout their first interaction with one another, given that jaekyung repeatedly threatened physical violence and also used physical violence on dan, given that jaekyung penetrated dan, and given that dan repeatedly expressed, physically and verbally, his non-consent to jaekyung, only to have them all completely ignored if not responded to with even more threats and/or uses of physical violence—why would jaekyung’s actions against dan in at least these very first four chapters not fall under even the legal definition of rape?
@Sg. I love their stories they make up.
I have not read all your comments but don’t hold your breath. As soon as you say something they will insult you
** As a reminder someone tried and Aka told them they are full of shit. They want to be right and the facts don’t matter to them.
and Persistent Quill is back right when Shielded Guard left. Yaaaay......
Nothing to add for now, the time, space, and energy I would need to detail all of my thoughts on all this exceeds every limit presented to me here. I need to see the story to completion before I make any final judgements. It did some things that I thought were genuinely interesting and praiseworthy at first and then began to fumble the bag with stupid plot devices and, well, mishandling the things it’d been doing well at first.
Look. If you’re into rape/non-con that’s fine. If you’re into the toxic shit that’s fine, so long as you understand that that is, in fact, what you’re reading. I’ll self-disclose and say I, too, enjoy those things (in a purely fictional context). But the fact that I am seeing several people in these comments trying to argue that what Jaekyung is/has been doing throughout this Webtoon WASN’T rape is deeply, deeply concerning to me. Usually I would blame the author for framing things in such a way as to make things ambiguous for reasons that have little to do with the story. But it is not the case here. Jaekyang is a wealthy man with status and power, physical and otherwise. He used those qualities from the get go and all throughout the Webtoon in order to get Dan, someone in a ridiculously desperate financial situation and with no leverage of his own to have sex with him. That is the gross abuse of power being used to coerce someone otherwise completely unwilling to have sex with you—that is rape. And it is a real and horrific thing that happens ALL the time in reality.
So don’t come at me with “technicalities” about this shit just because it’s fiction or whatever the fuck, because some of y’all aren’t talking about this as if it is, some of y’all aren’t applying nuance to this for the sake of having a worthwhile conversation. It’s genuinely scary to me that some of you seem to be unaware of the precise nature of what is going on here. Not that you’re reading the Webtoon, but that you don’t seem to be understanding it. It’s emblematic of many cultures’ poor sex ed and poor attitudes towards sex and consent. Because I don’t think anyone who has been educated enough should be able to walk away from this being unable to distinguish between rape and actual, consensual sex, especially when it is as clear-cut as it is here. I DO have to worry about how you guys would react to hearing someone in your real life in this kind of situation, or, and I hope it is never, ever the case, YOU being in this situation. Would you excuse it? Because you “agreed” to it? Would you relentlessly blame yourself like Dan does? Would you really be able to articulate your experience to get the help you need? Would you be able to respond well to someone else in this situation?