TJ didn't, unless one interprets the "too deep" comments followed by mutual passionate sex as such.
Jo did in 52, since he continued while Ian was unconscious and then came on his face without consent.
I don’t think he’s a red flag. Has he done indirect harm? Yes but do I care? Not really and plus I know he has good intentions and that’s all that matters. It just annoys me when some fans are hypocritical when it comes to SA and YES SA HAPPENED.
SA still happens, doesn’t change that. Kissing someone after shoving them to a wall without a clear consent beforehand IS SA. But do I care about it? No because this story has other important stuff, the only reason I’m bringing it up is because fans are hypocritical. I don’t think some know what SA is.
SA can still happen/be in the past but it’s up to victims how they react. And no I’m not biased, I think a lot of others fans are though cherry picking what is SA or not. What TJ did is SA. Someone said ch 24 and how it’s a sudden kiss.
“Sudden kiss” as in non con kiss. And they’re in a codependent relationship, I’m sure Ian felt guilty about hitting him. This is why I don’t see Jo ending up with Ian with how deep down in the hole he’s with TJ. I don’t mean it in a bad way either.
I’m not even talking about that part. And yes I never said Jo didn’t SA so idk why you act like I do. I’m just making sure people realize what’s SA. Someone of y’all act like the SA never happened just because the victim soon gives in.
SA still happens, doesn’t change that. Kissing someone after shoving them to a wall without a clear consent beforehand IS SA. But do I care about it? No because this story has other important stuff, the only reason I’m bringing it up is because fans are hypocritical. I don’t think some know what SA is.
SA can still happen/be in the past but it’s up to victims how they react. And no I’m not biased, I think a lot of others fans are though cherry picking what is SA or not. What TJ did is SA.
“Sudden kiss” as in non con kiss. And they’re in a codependent relationship, I’m sure Ian felt guilty about hitting him. This is why I don’t see Jo ending up with Ian with how deep down in the hole he’s with TJ. I don’t mean it in a bad way either.
And no I don’t believe the “too deep” as SA if sex consent is given beforehand which TJ got consent!
We're talking about the same thing in two different comments haha so I'm just gonna answer here because I think the other person blocked me and I can't reply there sksk
I only mentioned Jo because I thought that op might be confused about who and what the comments are about and there's a mix of comments about Jo and TJ. I commented that before I saw your comment beneath it!
I have the chapter open. He didn't ask for consent before kissing, they never do. TJ asked about Jo, got slapped, kissed Ian, Ian pulled TJ's hair, Ian kissed TJ. TJ grabbed Ian but they're in the middle of the room, there's no wall.
I meant that if you're set on treating the kiss as noncon then most of the kisses in the series would also be noncon kisses. It's not a noncon kiss for me, because it was reciprocated, Ian doesn't look like he feels guilty at all, I don't see it as him "giving in" either, since they were both a little violent and turned on. They really just look like they're into it sksk I get how it could make you uncomfortable/read it differently tho, since the whole scene has violent undertones.
As for sudden kisses, Jo's first one was sudden too. That's why I don't feel the need to call any of the kisses SA, no matter who starts them, I just kind of accept them as a "mood" thing. Would I say the same of such kisses irl? Nope. But in this particular case I treat it as fiction/webtoon logic.
Yeah everything is about non con as it gets in this story, that’s why I don’t give a shit. I only bring it up when people act like TJ did not SA him. It irks me and plus Ian doesn’t really confront it, he didn’t even confront Jo about the SA. That’s why I’m saying people can’t just say “he didn’t say he didn’t want to”, it’s not easy.
Yes it’s SA, but it’s not a big deal in a sense.
Also thank you for the explanation. I think some Jo Stan on twt cut the panels to make it look like Ian never reciprocated back. I still see it as SA because kissing without prior consent is…Sa. But it’s not a big deal as I already said, they’re used to this and while it’s not a good thing, I’m not one to hold a grudge over stuff like that.
"That’s why I’m saying people can’t just say “he didn’t say he didn’t want to”, it’s not easy." I agree!
I don't think those people are trying to minimize or deny SA, they probably just interpret this scene like I do, which is interpreting it as consensual. And not because Ian didn't acknowledge it as such, but because they interpret his behaviour as reciprocation because of enjoyment. As I said, nonconsensual kisses are definitely SA and it does happen irl, but I don't interpret this particular fictional scene or any other in Wet Sand as a case of it. It's probably also the added context of TJ being quite good with reading Ian, we kind of trust him to know if that's something Ian would welcome or not.
As for Ian confronting it. He does pull TJ's hair so I think he would say more if he wanted to. After all TJ did respect it when Ian said he's not in the mood before. But he got turned on and kissed him instead. And in Jo's case... Ian isn't aware of it. Jo cleaned him up and just said that Ian fell asleep, so Ian doesn't know what happened. Unless we take into consideration that he said that he can't go on and tried to divert Jo's attention. Ian does have an issue with saying outright "no" and probably with confronting SA too, can't say I blame him.
Btw that's also part of why I trust TJ more, for me it seems like Ian is more comfortable with expressing himself with TJ. And when he said he's not in the mood, TJ changed the subject by himself, recognizing it as a real refusal in that case, while with Jo it's Ian who after expressing refusal has to try to change the subject, once in the tent scene and then once like two(?) chapters from now. So I trust Ian to confront TJ more if he actually doesn't like something or try the 'changing the subject' thing he does. If he doesn't say anything but does in other situations it seems clearer that he's into it. He's a fictional character so we can assume more from his behaviour then we would with a real person.
Lord thank you. I don’t know why some can’t admit the kiss was SA, that’s all I’m trying to say, and I don’t even care about it because it just shows in depth their relationship. Jo SA’ed Ian, but for some reason I find that scene more weird. As for the SA from TJ, it feels…normal? Not sure how to describe it. It brings more to the story in my opinion. I’m not trying to justify any of the toxic behavior, but that’s the thrill of the story.
For the confrontation, I meant verbally but I didn’t expect that from any of them due to their physical normalcy.
They’re both used to this kind of relationship, but SA can happen regardless, is my point. And I enjoy seeing their scenes, it puts me in an awe state. Compared to other scenes, TJ and Ian have a powerful voice speaking to me despite their lack of verbal communication if that makes sense, all of their scenes are written so well.
You can go and look for yourself. The person who says that TJs SAed him is talking about chapter 24. It’s better that you make your own opinion about it instead of believing some delusional people who lacks critical reading skills. So yeah, chapter 24
Ok its been a while...so why is TJ a red flag I totally forgot. Someone said he SAd him but when did he do so??