Erm

tjian kissing in their already established sexual relationship is not sa are you fr?? yes i acknowledge they are codependent and their relationship is unhealthy but this is expected considering their past and current situation. but codependency doesnt mean lack of consent why are you ignoring all obvious enthusiastic consent especially in the scene you are labelling as ‘sa.’ im not trying to come across as mean but scrolling up you spread misinformation about the scene when that is not what happened then just said ‘whoops hehe.’ ?? please understand this but the narrative your pushing of ian being a victim to tj is silly and a dismissive to his character. while he has been a victim in the past his sexual relationship with tj is consensual and reciprocated. ian is not bound by his past he likes sex and he enjoys sex with tj. most of the time tjs advances are never unwanted and ian always reciprocates but when there has been times when ian has turned tj down (chp 18) tj listened and didnt push it.

everyone is entitled to their opinion and interpretation but i really think you should reread the story before you spread misinformation.

Kissing someone after shoving them against a wall IS SA. This is common sense and I wouldn’t even have to compare it with my experience. Seeing this doesn’t trigger me. This is an example of SA, I don’t know why so many act as if TJ did not assault. It doesn’t change that it’s SA just because the other reciprocates. Ian doesn't even confront Jo about the SA he did, what makes people think he’d say no to TJ?

The only time it’s okay is if they agreed to it PRIOR. It’s not just a simple “I am feeling like having sex”, there’s trauma playing and codependency. And rather than that, I think Ian is just the type to not confront about SA.

This is not an opinion. Being pushed to the wall and being kissed and Ian gave in, is SA. But how they react is up to them, he’s so used to the physical aspect that it’s not even a bother.

That’s why I do not care if TJ assaulted, I’m only saying that it is SA. that I do not justify what TJ did. Doesn’t mean I’m gonna drop the story over that nor do I hate TJ because of that.

Well that isn’t the case here when it comes to healthy.

There’s a difference between being used to kissing VS shoving someone against a wall and kissing them. I’m not saying codependency = lack of consent. But it does play a big role as to why they are the way they are.

I’m not saying Ian is a victim in general, but let’s not act like what TJ did is not assault. That’s the only thing I’m trying to say. That it is SA. But they’re so used to it, it does not come off as an issue.

They’re used to the physical aspect but no proper communication. I see it as Sa because Ian was pushed and kissed, the kiss was non con is all I’m trying to say, as for the sex, I never said it’s non con. I think you’re confusing yourself.

And just because they have an established sexual relationship doesn’t make the kiss not non con.

And I said whoops hehe referring to the order I mixed up. But the non con kiss still happened.

OF COURSE there can be SA in relationship. Most rapes happen in relationships. But I’m talking about kissing without asking when you’re in a relationship in which kisses are ESTABLISHED. And I’m only talking about kisses. Not sex.

but we already told you, he DID NOT pushed him against a wall. They’re in the middle of the room. They’re just equally violent with one another when they’re intimate. That’s why it also turns them on. He did not shove him against the wall. Just go and read the chapter, I literally found it for you.

And I told you that it is fictional and it’s up to the author to decide whether they want to add a chapter in which they talk explicitly about consent. Which they chose NOT to do. But they still showed in many ways that it is consensual. So there’s no need for « agreeing prior » since it will simply never happens.

You’re so talking about the fake « shoving against the wall » but you don’t even talk about how Ian punched him. And also kissed TJ without asking. And they had sex. It’s their relationship, it’s their dynamics. It’s established. Even if it was not said verbally.

I wasn’t even talking about sex when it comes to consent. I don’t think we are understanding lool. I’m saying the kiss was SA and I also said that I’m not talking about sex being SA…cause it wasn’t, Ian and TJ consented! As for the SA, it was sudden but also counts as SA. But do I care? Nooo please don’t take it the wrong way. I think it’s the way you phrased some sentences that made me think you were acting as if SA can’t happen in established relationship.

I replied to another person with this explanation:
“Lord thank you. I don’t know why some can’t admit the kiss was SA, that’s all I’m trying to say, and I don’t even care about it because it just shows in depth their relationship. Jo SA’ed Ian, but for some reason I find that scene more weird. As for the SA from TJ, it feels…normal? Not sure how to describe it. It brings more to the story in my opinion.

For the confrontation, I meant verbally but I didn’t expect that from any of them due to their physical normalcy.

They’re both used to this kind of relationship, but SA can happen regardless, is my point. And I enjoy seeing their scenes, it puts me in an awe state. Compared to other scenes, TJ and Ian have a powerful voice speaking to me despite their lack of verbal communication if that makes sense, all of their scenes are written so well.”

I have been telling you that the kiss is NOT non con because they’re in an relationship in which kisses are established. And it’s because you think the contrary, that your opinion IS a personal opinion (based on your trauma) and not a fact.

The Kiss is all I’m talking about, don’t bring in other because I also agree that it’s consensual when it comes to their sex. I checked the panel and I confused it for a wall, my bad. He still grabbed him and kissed. Unless Ian consented prior, its assault.

I was talking about sexual assault, not assault in general. And I have talked about Ian hitting TJ before, although not here, I’ve acknowledged that scene.

Ian was also wrong for that. As you said, toxic. But I still believe in the chances of them ending up together, they’re way too popular for the author to say no.

Consent isn’t forever just because you have an established relationship. It’s still SA if you go up and grab them and kiss them. It’s what they’re used to.

Established kisses is a strange way to put it. The kiss is non con. Just because they’re used to it doesn’t mean it’s established. They don’t even know where they’re going with their relationship, all we know is that they are each other’s only family.

???? please reread the chapter before you embarrass yourself sorry but you are coming across as illiterate. as i said before tjian have an established relationship which is full of rough and nasty sex doesnt mean that it can’t be consensual either. it can be both and it was both in the scene. ‘ian didnt say no because he is used to it.’ why are you continuously dodging my point. its been stated so many times in the story ian likes sex and sex with tj. he isnt ‘used’ to it like someone who cant say no. he wants it actually he is a ‘slut’ and that is okay he is empowered sexually dont take that away from his character. they are in a relationship its really that simple. would you consider the times ian has kissed tj off guard and rough unconsensual too? because sorry to tell you this happens a lot that and is their relationship dynamic not ‘sa.’

and for the scene itself ian slapped tj causing him to become turned on. yes he grabbed ian and kissed him. there was no pushing into walls involved but even if there was it wouldnt make it assault. ian kissed right back. i feel like you are misinterpreting the scene wildly. there was no unwillingness on ians side sexually. it was obviously trying to convey ians fear of closeness to tj after he was relieved that tj wasnt the one hurt and in hospital. ian didnt go there with the intention of sex but he realises they cannot keep their hands off eachother. there was no sa stop spreading misinformation doyak-nim has already scolded readers for this.

girl thank you for not letting people spread
misinformation about the scene. my brain hurts from correcting stupid people (⌒▽⌒)

It feels normal because it’s not SA. Not in their situation. I can understand the reasons why you’d have your own opinion about kissing in an established relationship but you got to take into account the context, the roots of their relationship. Sexual assault means that there’s no consent. TJ can kiss Ian as many time as he wants and it will not be assault because he has consent. It was not verbally said in this fictional story but there’s many other proofs. And that’s why it feels normal. It’s like the punching and violence for example. It if had been another couple, it would have been awful and misplaced. But when it comes to them, it’s just how they are. They’re ok with it and they’re even turned on by it. If they both consent, even if we readers can’t understand, it’d still be « normal » for them.

Doyak scolded those who claimed a character was a rapist when he wasn’t, at most SA but not rape. The author never said there wasn’t SA.

So both Ian and TJ assaults each other. And the SA happened, the kiss was non con and it doesn’t change the fact that SA happened, but I agree that the sex was consensual the moment Ian kissed back reluctantly.

Why are we discussing Ian’s promiscuity? That’s not what I’m talking about. I never said most of their relationship together throughout the years is non con. I think you didn’t read my words properly or perhaps I phrased it wrong, so my fault.

And my point is that the kiss is non con. That is all.

SA can happen and what happens next doesn’t change that. Kissing someone without prior consent is assault I’d say, but afterwards Ian gave consent. My only point is that the SA happened in the PAST but then Ian gave consent afterwards because he kissed back. That is all, I swear.

I’m only saying it’s SA but I’m not repulsed by it nor do I hate any of them for that. SA can happen and we can move on like nothing happened. That’s the case for TJ and Ian, as you said, they don’t care. That’s how their dynamic is.

I feel you so bad omg !! It’s so damn frustrating because i feel like they purposely don’t want to understand. By the way, seeing your comments help me calm my frustration with this whole conversation lmao. They’re all on point.

last time im replying because i dont want to waste my time with people who are not intellectually in check. i think you should go back to most subpar bl plots.

tj would never ever do anything without consent to ian even kissing. you can hate his character but dont mischaracterise him. he has always checked ians boundaries especially after supporting him during his past. i dont understand why you obsessed with pushing this narrative you look foolish. it. he kissed him and it had no negative repercussions it was not non con at all get over it.