When did he SAed Ian ?
tj never SAed ian ?? are we reading the same manhwa jo on the other hand tho…
I don’t remember the chapter but there’s a scene in early chapters I think where he asked “did he give it to you hard? Did you like it that much?” And then non consensually kissed Ian after pushing him against a wall. This led to Ian slapping him. That is SA.
I don’t remember the chapter but there’s a scene in early chapters I think where he asked “did he give it to you hard? Did you like it that much?” And then non consensually kissed Ian after pushing him against a wall. This led to Ian slapping him. That is SA.
It was chapter 24. There was a sudden kiss, that’s for sure, but Ian punched him and then kissed him back. And then they had consensual sex. Initiated by Ian who kissed him back. So it wasn’t SA. Maybe you should read the story again cause it looks like you’re a little bit biased… ヾ(❀╹◡╹)ﾉ~
Jo on the other hand, actually SAed Ian in chapter 52. He kept on fucking him and even cummed on his face while Ian was unconscious.
SA still happens, doesn’t change that. Kissing someone after shoving them to a wall without a clear consent beforehand IS SA. But do I care about it? No because this story has other important stuff, the only reason I’m bringing it up is because fans are hypocritical. I don’t think some know what SA is.
SA can still happen/be in the past but it’s up to victims how they react. And no I’m not biased, I think a lot of others fans are though cherry picking what is SA or not. What TJ did is SA.
“Sudden kiss” as in non con kiss. And they’re in a codependent relationship, I’m sure Ian felt guilty about hitting him. This is why I don’t see Jo ending up with Ian with how deep down in the hole he’s with TJ. I don’t mean it in a bad way either.
Actually he didn’t even punched him because of the kiss. He punched him BEFORE the kiss lol, he actually kissed him back immediately lol
You're messing up the order. TJ asked, he got slapped for that. Then he kissed Ian and then Ian kissed him. TJ didn't push Ian against a wall, they're in the middle of a room. They both got turned on by the slap and hair pulling. And if we count kisses without verbal consent as SA then Jo kissed Ian without consent either, at least the first time, I don't remember the rest tbh. I think there's only one time anyone asks about a kiss and that's Ian in 51.
Yes Jo did SA and so did TJ, that’s literally all I wanted to say. Not that hard. I did mess up the scenes so I apologize for that, but the noncon kiss still happened.
Whoops hehe
It still doesn’t change that sa happened, the victim only returned it and knowing how codependent their relationship is, Ian will always go back to TJ in the end regardless.
But it’s not like it was their first kiss. You said it yourself that they’re in a relationship. Codependent or not, it’s still a relationship in which they’re already intimate with each other. They’re already used to having sex and kissing each other. Kissing each other in an already established relationship is not sexual assault, except if one says something about not wanting it anymore. Which was not the case. Ian happily kissed him back. He didn’t even argued with the kiss. They’re both really passionate (they can punch each other and/or be kinda violent) but it’s never not consensual. Yes it’s toxic but it’s consensual.
The only reason I’m bringing codependency up is because it’s a huge connection to why Ian keeps going back to TJ (and the fact he’s barely had familial live before). It’s still SA to kiss someone before their acknowledgment, but it’s not a serious type of SA where I’m like: Call the cops! Criminal!
Yes, that’s why it is toxic. But he’s not forcing himself to have sex with him. And I totally agree with you about kissing someone before acknowledgment as SA. But I don’t entirely agree with you in a sense that it is NOT SA when you’re in a relationship with the person. If it’s a stranger, then yes it’s SA. If it’s a family member, yes it’s SA. But if you’re in an established sexual relationship with the person, in which you often kiss, then I don’t consider it as SA. It’s sudden. But not against consent since they’re in a relationship in which kissing each other is normal and established. It’s like your husband/wife had to ask every time to kiss you even though you’ve been married for years. If you actually would prefer for your husband/wife to ask you every time, then it’s ok, it’s on you, it’s because you personally prefer it, but you have to acknowledge that it’s not common, that kissing each other without asking when you’re in a relationship is not sexual assault unless one verbally said that they did not want it anymore. And they may not be married but they’ve been in an intimate relationship for years. If kissing is established then it cannot be SA. And it has been established for years.
That’s invalidating for you to say it’s not SA just because you’re in a relationship with someone. Based off my experience and codependent on one guy, I’ve been SA’ed and I see it as SA. But of course I’d brush it off until I left.
If you’re referring to sex buddies, that’s still the same. Sex buddies also need consent. Unless they discussed prior that non con is okay, I don’t see how this is okay.
It’s hard to say because people in a CODEPENDENT relationship will not easily say “I don’t want to do this” or confront about it. And I think it’s not even just that cause Ian didn’t confront Jo about the SA, a person he met a few months ago, what makes you think he’d say no to TJ?
Romantic relationship vs sexual relationship are not the same. It’s okay if couple established that kissing without asking is okay, but that’s not the case with any characters here.
Well then I’m sorry about what happened to you but you’re clearly projecting your trauma on this fictional relationship. There won’t have a scene in which they say « okay you can kiss me any time you want since we’re in a sexual relationship ». They’re fucked up and they’re in a fucked up relationship yet it’s still established and consensual. There’s no blackmail, there’s no assault, it’s one of the very few yaoi in which the bottom doesn’t say « no » because he actually wants it every single time. Whether it’s codependent or not, it’s still a consensual fictional relationship. A fucked up one for sure but you can’t project your real trauma on this fucked up love story. Considering their fucked up relationship as consensual doesn’t invalidate your trauma.
Projecting? No. But I am comparing. Readers are free to do this without judgement from others. This is why a lot of people resonate with certain stories.
Ian wouldn’t say no fully because he’s used to this, exactly, codependent. My only point is that TJ did SA, but that I don’t care as much because the only reason I’m bringing it up is to put it against those who claim he never did.
They’re used to having rough and long sex, it’s how they cope in a way. I don’t know about love story, but I agree that’s its fiction. Still doesn’t mean people can’t compare.
It’s just that saying there can’t be SA if you’re together with someone is strange. There can be SA’s in romantic relationships, even fuck buddies. There’s no restrictions. I shouldn’t have compared it with my personal experience, but I make my point. And I do apologize if I sounded rude in any way.
But you said it yourself, YOU consider it as SA because of the trauma you had. So you must know that your opinion is subjective and influenced by your own trauma. Even if it’s similar, it’s not the same situation. That’s what I said earlier. If you personally prefer for your partner to ask you every time for a kiss, then that on YOU. You have your own reasons. Your trauma is legit. But thinking that your subjective opinion which is based on a traumatic experience, IS the norm, then, you’d be wrong. Kissing each other when kisses are established in the relationship (whether it’s a love one or sex buddies) is not sexual assault. Unless, there’s a situation like yours in which one has a reason as to why there must have conditions. But your situation is a « special case » (because of the trauma you had and your trauma responses). And those conditions have to be verbally addressed because, as I said, it’s not the norm. It may trigger you but it still doesn’t mean that in this particular fictional situation (or even irl), it was SA. Even if in YOUR situation it was. Since it’s fictional, there won’t have a chapter in which they verbally talk about consent unless the author chose to do so which they didn’t but they showed in many ways that it’s is consensual AND established even if it’s fucked up. The kiss may have been a trigger (because it made you think about your own sexual assault) but it still was not sexual assault in this story.
And when I said that the « conditions have to be verbally addressed because it’s not the norm » I was talking about healthy relationships, not toxic ones, I’m not talking about your trauma with your abuser. And I’m talking about real life healthy relationships of course, not fictional ones.
I dislike what TJ did before but I can see his intentions aren’t evil. And that’s what makes me root for a ML so hard. TJ did SA, he did many unlikable stuff, but seeing CH 55 makes me feel sad. Does that mean I’m rooting for him? No. For Jo? No. But all I want is happiness for all the three characters. They each need therapy and friendship over romance in my opinion.