Once again, you're assuming things. You're right that he's not happy about these things, but MY point was that that doesn't mean that he is dissatisfied and i backed that with the fact that he doesn't want to leave Sangwoo and the fact that he still likes it when he's treated nice BECAUSE he's still in love.
"He doesn't like it when Sangwoo hurts him, forces him to do his household chores or forces him to watch or participate when Sangwoo seduces and later kills someone." you said this just now, but can you point out where Bum says this? If not then you're just making up facts, making up a reality that doesn't exist. The only thing that Bum says in those scenes is "this is crazy" or "i have to escape" (because, as i said, bum's ONLY problem with sangwoo is that he's scared to die.). Why are you assuming that because he likes to be treated nicely that he doesn't like being treated badly? maybe he doesn't mind acting like Sangwoo's housewife? He's cooking for him, cleaning for him and ends up blowing him. why would he hate that situation with someone he loves?
Since when "being unhappy" is not the same as "being dissatisfied"? Has it never occurred to you anyone may still have to leave their love even though they love them? Do you really think mutual love is an absolute guarantee for anything? ...Have you never yourself experienced conflicted feelings about anything or anyone, ever in your life?
The entire point of my last probably 3 replies is that in this ^ reply that you wrote you assume that Sangwoo IS abusing his power as the dominant partner. You assume that Bum isn't content with how things are romantically between the two of them, all you do is assume, you don't give any examples or even try to back your point. The only example you've given is that Bum is scared of Sangwoo, which i've already replied to in that Bum isn't scared of Sangwoo himself, he loves sangwoo despite all his flaws as stated in the concert scene, he's scared that Sangwoo is going to kill him someday which actually explains all his reactions towards the killings as he's just responding with shock, not disgust. I can further my claim of Bum not being disgusted by the killings in that Bum kills someone himself without outside influence and feels nothing.
They've never been the same... you can be unhappy and satisfied at the same time. Have you never read a manga that had a sad ending, but you were ok with it?
Also, don't misconstrue my words, what i said was that he "isn't happy with these things" not that he "is unhappy" as a whole. You're either not understanding what i'm saying or you're trying to manipulate the conversation and its kind of amusing.
I feel like we're just gonna keep talking in circles that's why I said neither of us are wrong and that it depends on the perspective. I would like more proof that Sangwoo has done everything out of love and that none of it was manipulation. I'm waiting for season 2 for that proof. I will not label Sangwoo's attachment to Bum as love until then.
The only proof you need is when Sangwoo says "lets be together forever" to bum. If you take that for face value its canon. I understand if you want to back out of the debate, feel free.
That's the only proof you need, I however would like more. Sorry, I wasn't too interested in debating this to begin with :/
really? but you gave such an in depth analysis of your point of view on Bum and Sangwoo's situation: "or that to happen Sangwoo would have to seriously piss off Bum and withdrawal all physical advances towards him. I can't see that happening because Sangwoo wants to keep Bum around. Still uncertain of what to call the attachment Sangwoo has for Bum but I think he' continues to be intimate with Bum because that's what Bum wants. By doing things like kissing, saying he loves Bum and allowing Bum to play out some of his fantasies, Sangwoo is not only ensuring Bum will stay but he's also feeding into Bum's obsession. Bit of a spoiler here for those who haven't seen 19. From the flashback we see that Bum often misinterprets simple kindness as love. Sangwoo however has gone past showing Bum acts of simple kindness and does things someone in a relationship might do. Right now Bum might think that Sangwoo truly loves him and he's not going to suddenly snap out of it. I think to a degree Bum knows Sangwoo is manipulating him. He knows the true Sangwoo is abusive and that is not something he should accept. But he also is too obsessed over Sangwoo to let the abuse affect him. Additionally from the flashback, I'm assuming Bum started stalking because he longs for closeness to someone. Killing Sangwoo would cease that closeness. Right now I cant see Bum killing Sangwoo as it would end the relationship they have. Who knows how season 2 will shake things up though" I guess from this i just assumed you were wanting to debate, my bad : /
That and this: "The biggest problem I have with saying the things Sangwoo were out of love is because of the ambiguous intent Sangwoo had. In the first couple of chapters I believe Sangwoo decided to keep Bum around instead of killing him because he found Bum to be interesting. There are a lot of factors that caused Sangwoo to treat Bum differently from his typical victims so I think any affection Sangwoo showed Bum early on was manipulation. I think that Sangwoo kept Bum around to try to understand Bum a bit better and possibly for entertainment. Sangwoo said himself that he had something he wanted to confirm in Bum. Because Sangwoo was putting Bum through a series of tests I can’t say if any of those actions were out of love or if Sangwoo was just playing with him.
Now if we want to talk about the physical intimacy between Bum and Sangwoo those were done from arousal and sexual attraction. Arousal/sexual attraction and love can come together at the same time but do not necessarily have to. The first two times we see Sangwoo aroused was during the period he was testing Bum. I think the first time Sangwoo made advances towards Bum, he did so as a test to see what to what extent Bum loved him. When Sangwoo later allowed Bum to give him oral, I think it was so Sangwoo could understand the cause of his own arousal from before. Pretty sure Sangwoo was not sexually attracted to Bum at that point, he’s said some pretty homophobic remarks to Bum about his sexuality, and that is why he was shocked by his arousal in the situation (the blushing scene). I think what arouses Sangwoo is Bum’s submissiveness to him. Sangwoo loves to feel superior . Sangwoo’s lust for submission, is could also supported by the erection Sangwoo had while choking Bum in chapter 9(?). You said Sangwoo “came” after the finger biting but I don’t think he ejaculated or had an orgasm. I thought the grunt was more so from the slight pain from Bum suddenly biting him.
I think Sangwoo demonstrates his selfishness a lot in chapter 14. He didn’t stop making Bum wear women’s clothes. He bought Bum a change of clothes so that he could take him out in public for his later plans. While inside the house, there was no need for Bum to wear men’s clothes. Sangwoo needed to take Bum out to meet his friends and having him in women’s clothing wouldn’t be acceptable. I even saw Sangwoo as being a bit selfish and controlling during the bathroom bj scene.
Let’s just say our disagreement is just a matter of seeing things from a different perspective. Neither of us are necessarily wrong but I’d like more proof that Sangwoo loves Bum. (Really wish Koogi would give us scenes where we can see what Sangwoo is thinking but oh well…) Sangwoo has undoubtedly grown increasingly attached to Bum but right now I can’t call it love." message made me assume you were wanting to debate but i guess not. Well, thanks for the good time though : )
Yeah, that was my response to the hypothetical Bum getting saved situation, I feel like there I was more addressing my opinion on Sangwoo's love from Bum's perspective. I believe that Bum thinks Sangwoo loves him regardless of if that is true or not. We're not talking about that though. The "does Sangwoo truly love Bum" question is something I wasn't really looking to debate, as I'm kinda on the fence about it. I even said there I was "uncertain of what to call the attachment Sangwoo has for Bum". Sorry for giving the wrong impression.
Oh no~ nothing to be sorry about. How about the other reply you made directly to me after "a few" hours of school? The response you said to 'me's' and my debate after i messaged you saying "ok, whenever you're ready." It really seemed like you were wanting in on the debate, like i said it seems to be my misunderstanding so its all good. ╮(￣▽￣)╭
I really liked that season of american horror story and felt kinda sad that him and violet didn't get together because he honestly seemed to love her. I KNOW he raped her mom and killed people, but i'm talking about intentions here, he NEVER meant to hurt her and only wanted to protect her. Satisfying ending though.
Then what is this?
http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/killing_stalking/mf/c004/37/
He says he feels like he's in a cage.
And this:
http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/killing_stalking/mf/c004/38/
He says to himself: "Are you going to leave your life in Sangwoo's hands?"
And here:
http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/killing_stalking/mf/c004/39/
He says "I want to go back!"
Then this says how he started acting the way he thought Sangwoo wanted him to act, just so he could bide his time and prepare a plan to escape:
http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/killing_stalking/mf/c004/63/
http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/killing_stalking/mf/c004/64/
Sangwoo's attitude becomes nicer during this chapter, yet he talks about how he's not happy with the "happy routine" and wants to break it:
http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/killing_stalking/mf/c004/77/
Really, all of that chapter is proof that Bum's plan was never to renounce to his own freedom in order to make Sangwoo happy.
Yeah, I agree. He killed the gay couple before he even met Violet, and he raped Violet's mother at the beginning of the season, when he still didn't know Violet that well. Everything else that he did after (harming Violet's bully Leah the drug-addict, Killing the enactment fanatical killer wannabes and then the plague exterminator, drugging Violet's dad and attempting to kill the teenage boy that came to live at the house after the Harmons) were all his insane attempts to protect her.
If Violet hadn't turned out to be already dead and he'd actually been trying to get Violet to kill herself for real, though, he would have been selfish like Hayden (and Sangwoo) and I would have felt no sympathy for him after Violet dumped his crazy ass.
Literally all of these scenes are explained away by Bum being scared Sangwoo is going to kill him, they in no way prove that Bum isn't still in love with him. What is your point in showing these scenes? I already said that Bum is unhappy that he feels he might be killed by sangwoo, but that he is satisfied with how Sangwoo treats him romantically (the sweet parts) and as such doesn't want to leave. He is unhappy, but satisfied with their relationship and nothing you point out can possibly debunk this.
Read Koogi's notes in the last post, you were 100% wrong.
I hope the people who kept acting all patronizing of others now will read the author's own notes in the last chapter that's been posted, and realize they were completely wrong, and take this chance to grow up a little.
I'm only doing this because of some posters here who like to terrorize other posters here and in other stories' comments sections for not thinking the same way as them, offering what they believe is 100% logic arguments but actually being 100% rude in a sickening psuedo-intelwctual manner, when the facts prove them wrong, and then continue acting like pompous asses, doing the same thing again and again in every story, never learning their lesson. It's time to stop acting like pompous asses and persecuting people with "pseudo logic" now. Take this chance to learn to be humble. You're not the one "in the right" nor better than other people just because people stop arguing with you because they got sick of your bulsshit and your inflated ego.
I'm about to kill Sangwoo myself at this point. Just leave Yoonbum alone, god damn it!