I don't know why I read it really, perhaps my issue with wanting to be a guy so I fill my world with nothing but well... males? I dunno if that makes sense, anyways, another reason could be I find females in romance annoying as hell or that I just enjoy great plots and characters
I didn't read all of what you said but your q:why do you read yaoi my answer is BECAUSE IM A FANGIRL AND ITS HOWT! *cough* and for some reason I feel like yaoi has crept into my soul,like I feel that its part of me now.i know its weird to say but yaoi is my soulmate,my one and only,i love it.2d is way better then 3d.
Basically I can read any kind of porn manga but usually it's easier to find interesting stories and relationships between the characters in yaoi ^^ What I enjoy is this relationship, and the "fluffy" moments that go with it. Sex is but the continuation of the fluff.
I do not enjoy or "react" to any kind of 3D porn, or not fluffy 2D porn.
That said I am not reading exclusively yaoi or sex oriented series ;) Yaoi is 1/5 of the total I guess.
Well, i rarely liked the female characters in the anime that i watched, and just wished they would go away. Oh, there's a genera with little to no female characters? Let me get on that! *reads* shit, well this interaction was insanely cute... *keeps reading*
Okay, do you like gay sex or do you not?
You say you like Yaoi and in the same breath say you do not. I am confused. Which is it?
Do you liker 'soft' yaoi that fits more into the traditional role where one looks like a girl and the other a macho man, and that is why you do not like hardcore gay sex (bara)?
Sorry, I didn't express myself clearly enough. I do not like bara mainly because of the aesthetics. Too much buffed muscles, I don't like the penises and I don't like the "action". The first thing I think of when I watch bara is: guys from gym making out (except for the penises because in RL, the bigger the muscles, the smaller the... well, you know), and I don't find that attractive. Also, I guess it's more oriented towards male fantasies than towards female. I can't relate to it, it does not visually excite me and it reminds me too much of 3D gay porn, which I don't like. Too much of testosterone all over the "wrong" places and too much of narcissism for my taste. I'm not trying to offend anyone, I'm just expressing why bara does not do it for me.
I do like hardcore yaoi though. And I don't have a problem with muscular men in it. E. g., although it's not my favorite, I do love Zaria. I find her manga hot. Also, I looove Harada, and they're absolutely not soft and fluff. I like Hidaka Shoko also, as well as Yoneda Kou and Ike Reibun. I would say that I even do not fancy fluffer yaoi with uke looking like a girl (although I like it when both seme and uke look like girls), or when their relationship reminds me too much of traditional heterosexual relationship and "pink lemonade fluff".
So, I guess I have a problem with traditional roles, both heterosexual and gay. That's why I said I didn't like gay sex. I like my (or female) perception of gay sex, and I think that's what yaoi is for me, maybe?
Yes, the girls in shoujo romance usually act really annoying. Too f@king insecure, too jealous at wrong stuff (and missing to notice when there's red alert and when you SHOULD feel jealous), too much centered at their own romantic interest. Too much of predictable plot. Guys not being 2D, but 1D. Like, their biggest move (and probably the only one) is wall slam (is that what it is called)? I get sick when I hear Valentines and The White day. I'm not unromantic. Quite the opposite, in fact. I just hate all the sh*t with red roses, champagne and silk - it makes me wanna puke.
Oh, you said it good. I forgot to mention that one, and it's a major factor for me too. For long time during my adolescence I wished for the same. Over the years, I can't say I relinquished my desire to be a guy, but I did modify it. Thinking and acting at times as a guy, being active and dominant instead of passive and submissive in thoughts, interaction, life and love, being brave and "masculine" instead of being scarred, insecure and all over the place... I find that really hot. But not being afraid of being hurt, not being afraid to embrace all of the "femininity", letting to be controlled instead of the constant pressure of having to be the one to play the dominant role, I also find that hot in the opposite sex. (Although those characteristics also fall into the scope of the traditional gender rules.)
Ahahaha, I know what you mean. Face like 12, boobs like mother nature filled with milk, waist like bee. Unless you torture your self with corset, like for 10 years, ain't gonna happen, nope. Just like you won't ever find in RL those over sized legs and hands that figure in yaoi. That's why its fantasy, in any case. Oh yeah, and there's the humiliation factor in hentai, the same one you find in 3D hetero porn. I still watch/read it, though. Does not excite me like yaoi, but helps me understand the way guys in average think. And I like obtaining that understanding and empathizing. Something like: If I were a guy and if I were to watch this stuff, how would I feel? Hmmmmmmm.... interesting.
Personally, I'm not a fan of "fluff", but I do get what you mean. What you call "fluff" I would call shared emotion and sweetness (cuteness), maybe?. There's nothing of the sort in 3D porn, indeed. When people make porn, they don't go to have sex, they go to work. So not sexy. Obscenity instead of intimacy, as if intimacy itself became obscene?
The interaction and the story moment is also true, but it's also true that there's a lot of really superficial plot lines and characters in yaoi, too. In that case, I try to concentrate on sex and the aesthetics. If I can have a good plot line and growing characters (those are my favorite, like in Hidaka Shoko), then I'm in total bliss. The sex becomes waaaay....tooo....friggin......hot.... (ah), even if its not that often present as in other yaoi manga. There's also that thing called warm versus cold media, as in: pensil is warm and camera is cold, but I won't elaborate on that one here.
(The characters and plotline is, btw, one of the reasons I enjoy a good shounen more than a good shoujo. But, I like the most the borderline between the two. And, the other thing: yaoi is, akhem, well 50-55% of what I read ⁄(⁄ ⁄·⁄ω⁄·⁄ ⁄)⁄ ).
I'm a fangirl myself. I'm just trying to figure out why :). Agree with you on 2D versus 3D, completely. Waaaay better! As for 2D versus RL, I don't know... Definitely different, but maybe can be merged. And maybe not. I would most probably try to apply in RL something I liked from the yaoi that I've seen, and maybe I'd write one day a manga based on my fantasy of RL persons. That is, if I ever decide to draw a yaoi manga. Not thinking that far right now, though.
Oh, but on the other hand, there is something really sweetly "rotten" in fangirling about boys consciously excluding the actual boys from it. Hehe, like a totaly girl masturbation, just for the girls :p.
And also, although having a penis once in a while would be really nice. I would keep the boobs though ;p.
Make sense. Thanks for the clarification.
I guess I am one of those straight girls that LOVE a well drawn penis and bara. I understand why someone might not like bara, but it is so good. The sex is sexmazing! Though I tend to go for the less-muscular ones. I do not fancy gym rats. I would never data a gym rat. Light saber dicks are cute if the (plot) story is great, but I just want real, well drawn penis. And rough, BUT tender, sex. Most yaoi drawn for women do not have that aspect. It is usually mroe fluff and tender. No, I am not faint heated and I get extremely hot and bothered when I see a man handle their partner respectfully, gently, but is just rough. If you get what I mean, cause I felt as if I contradicted myself. But I am trying to make sure we're clear that I do not like when a man completely dominant their partner without their will and it is just plain rape. I like the rough bedroom demeanor, but completely consensual and when it is desired fully..
Harada work is....ummm...I love her, cause that lady/man (?) knows how to draw a great sex scene, her art is very soft and pretty. I do like her style though, especially the eyes. Zaria is my guilty pleasure. She wrote Gerita (Hetalia), which is my fav of all OTP, so I forgive her for those....tasteless gangbangs. And all the others you recommended, love them too, but there art are very soft and pretty, even Yoneda Kou-though her work is more rough than the others.
Since you already clarified that you do not like all the muscle and ish, it is understandable.
I'll just share with you why I read yaoi and the answer is only two words: Good sex.
I LOVE seeing a man be tender and rough, and let's just say, most hetero stuff has a prince/knight or bad boy on horse complex. I want realistic men and a I want GOOD sex. Also, it is lovely to see a man feel. Just...When a man has feelings and act on it, such as cry, smile and look at their loved one as if the sun shines in their eyes, or think about them with a tender smile, I go crazy. I especially love these things when it is being done by a 'macho' manly man. I am ashamed to admit it, but I am extremely attracted to the traditional macho man, though MUCH leaner. I like, as you said, placing myself in both positions when I read Yaoi. I can see myself taking care of my lover, and I cna also see myself being taken cared of. Though, during sex scenes, I just want to be the one held. As a VERY dominant woman, when it comes to sex and matters of the bedroom, I want to be completely dominated (sometimes). I desire the whole talk-dirtying fiasco, pressing (softly) against wall, holding down on bed and capturing my hands up above my head. Even if I much rather we held fingers tightly. But you get it.
I cannot stand yaoi where if you just changed the gender of the uke it would be Shoujo. Nope! I hate feminine ukes. I hate the misogyny that is found in most of those stories. It is disgusting and I am not trying to mix that into my sexual life. When it comes to yaoi, I want equality and peace to enjoy good sex and lovely, chest (heart) clutching romance. When two MAN are in love and taking care of the other, I go gaga.
Anywho, so yeah...Sorry for the long ass reply.
Nothing to be sorry about. Actually, thank you for your time and sincerity. Your answer has made me think today and reconsider my thoughts. I even tried reading some bara again and I think you're right when it comes to the sense of equality and wholehearted emotions expressed in them. But, I really can't stand those muscles. While they are leaner, I could find it good (for e. g., I read a story I liked and I liked the characters, and I liked the sex in it: Okudaya Tetuzoh's Raiatea). I think I can handle that much, I find it sexy and I actually could empathize. But, more buff than that, I just can't handle it. Guess I'll never become a diligent bara reader, but I think that in the future I might check from time to time that category, too.
As for your thoughts on sex (and on good sex) in yaoi and preference, I couldn't agree with you more. Great sex, YES! As I said, if there's also a good story and growing characters, it's all the better (sex for me than becomes hotter), but even without it one can still enjoy greatly, exactly for the sex. Like you, I'm not a particular vanilla lover myself, but I hate rape and everything that is in any way non consensual. Rough sex and gentle love - yes; gentle sex and rough love - no. As for sub & dome, I like both and I like to see both, and in all possible combinations. Dominant seme and submissive uke, dominant uke and a submissive seme, sadism and masochism - all of it as long as there's love, as long as it stays in bed and as long as it doesn't include rape. That goes for RL, too. (Btw, I absolutely share your thoughts on Harada, except when she draws rape. And I have no idea about their gender.) So no, you're not contradicting yourself.
Furthermore, there's no reason to feel bad about the preference for macho looking men. From what you wrote, you sound emancipated and your taste is a consciously chosen, reflected one, not unconscious and carried by waves of history of oppression of women. To that I can only say one thing: RESPECT!
In the end, I'm glad that you mentioned misogyny in shoujo romance (I can't stand Shinjo Mayu) and in "shoujo oriented yaoi" (let's call it that way shortly). I, too, have noticed it and I thing it's a thing worth discussing. Maybe I should open it as another question?
I really like you and want to befriend you. I feel as if we think the same way about many things.
I am an ULTRA-feminist. By that, I mean I am all about equality, no matter the type and how disgusted I am by it. Here I am talking about matters that do not hurt others. Though not many people knows that.
You do not have to force yourself to read bara. I know that a lot of foujoshis do not enjoy it. I am one of the few that do. I just think, as I believe I already mentioned, the sex is much better.
The less muscle the better for me too.
Harada is a precious being, but she is twisted. I cannot enjoy her 'rape stuff.' I need love for me to enjoy the sex. Most of my beloved yaois have little to no sex, but have great plots and tasteful art style (and skills).
This is also brings me to the whole....I've momentarily forgot what it is called, but it is when children are being raped by adults but it is dressed as a cute, guilty pleasure read in the yaoi fandom. They literally refuses to admit it is pedophilia and it is disgusting and needs to stop. The amount of foujoshi that codons pedophilia, fictional or not, disgusts me and also scares the crap out of me.
But moving on from that, rape in yaoi is slowly killing my passion for this "genre." Since you touched on it, I'll just go ahead and run with it. Consent is a must and what makes it all the more beautiful. I DIED from happiness when I was reading "Escape Journey" when he actually asked his lover if they could have sex. Though, I have to admit, it killed my soul when he raped him and the rape wasn't addressed as it should have. I still to this day do not see why it was added. Like, why? How did it help the plot developed? Again, some of the most beautiful pieces I've read have always given their consent and it is a joyous encounter. Rape ain't cute. I wonder when writer's (mangaka) will know that.
I cannot wait for the day rape is addressed in yaoi and it is gotten rid of as a plot 'advancer'; it is ironic considering it doesn't help the plot AT ALL.
I feel the same way. I'll try writing you a mail. I'm new to this site, so I'm not sure if I'll manage to do it, but I would really like to talk more. You open some really important and interesting topics.
I look for it. I am also a new user here too, talking about the whole account thing, so I do not know it all works.
It should be in your mail folder on this site.
I read yaoi manga because I think it is more interesting than other type of manga
Ok, I'm sure someone has already asked that question and I'm sorry if I'm repeating it. If there's a thread, feel free to redirect me. I know we all read it because we like it. But, I'm interested for your reasons why do you like it. As for me, I read it because it gives me a huge free 2D erotic space, free for fantasizing. It's important that it's 2D. The 3rd, lacking dimension gets filled in by my fantasy. Ok, you answer. But the same goes with smut, yuri and hentai. Why prefer yaoi? As for regular smut, I find it rather boring (there are some exceptions, but very few of them). The positions are almost always the same, the biggest perversion is cunnilingus, female reaction is predictably always shy and pseudo-denying and male action is always controlling. So, too much of too traditional role plays. Or if not, girls are pictured as sluts (false emancipation, I guess), but the positions and reactions stay the same - uncreative.
As for yuri, I like the genre, but it's also very much predictable. I found several yuri manga that were different and daring, and boy did I like those. But for the rest, it was mostly uncreative and I didn't fancy the aesthetics - too much of them look like little girls.
Why not bara? Well, I could find a few that I liked, but generally I don't like it. Gay sex is not my cup of tea and I also don't fancy the aesthetics. I'm not a gay man, I'm female and heterosexual (well, mostly :).
Hentai? I can't say I don't read it, but it's too similar to your regular porn. It can have a good story, though. I do watch porn, but in most cases I find it boring and non-stimulating for its lack of connection and shared emotion between the actors. No one expects to find love in porn, me neither. But something shared, something that makes the actors both sincerely turned on and into each other as they both share erotic experience - that's something you find very rarely in porn. Hentai can be different, but it relates more to male mind and fantasies.
In yaoi, I like the aesthetics. I can easily empathize (or relate, if you prefer the latter expression) and there's shared emotion even if it's not love. I can relate to the seme or to the uke, or to the scene itself. Or I can relate to none and just enjoy the voyeurism. Also, I found out that a lot of female erotic fantasies are present in yaoi. It can be dirty, the way that girls mean dirty. Truth be said, it can also be predictable, superficial and boring, and when you've already read a lot of stories of the genre it becomes more difficult to find entertainment, spice and moe. But you can still find it, some older and once read stories are still a good and stimulating read. But I guess, for me, the things I like the most in yaoi are 2D imaginative space and liberation from traditional gender opposition roles (yes, the sexual ones).
So, that would be my reasons. Sorry for writing so much, but I wanted to try to precise my reasons as much as I could, and I would appreciate if you could do that also. I just ask of you a little bit of introspection.
Also, for those of you interested, I found a really good academic article on the topic. It's not perfect in every sense, but it did some of the explanation work for me. It's called "The evolution of BL as 'playing with gender': viewing the genesis and development of BL from a contemporary perspective" by Fujimoto Yukari. It was published in book "Boys love manga and beyond", ed. by Marc McLelland et al.
In the end, don't worry. Knowledge doesn't kill the thrill - it refines it.