I have a question isn't the word netkama based on the japanese slur for gay men and trans ...

Cleopatra March 22, 2024 1:02 am

I have a question isn't the word netkama based on the japanese slur for gay men and trans women "okama"? Kinda whack that it's become a title for a tame shounen ai lol what

Basically how we use "trap" in the west probably

Responses
    erena March 25, 2024 10:47 am

    tldr; okama is (mostly/partially) no longer considered a slur. It has regained common usage within Japan for a while now, and or sometimes refers to a specific vocation. It's not the equivalent of trap, it's just a word for catfishing.

    Cleopatra March 25, 2024 7:06 pm
    tldr; okama is (mostly/partially) no longer considered a slur. It has regained common usage within Japan for a while now, and or sometimes refers to a specific vocation. It's not the equivalent of trap, it's ju... erena

    what does "common usage mean" though? Do gay men and trans women use it for themselves? Even the fact that it groups them together says a lot. Is it a reclaimed word? If straight people use it that doesnt mean it's "no longer a slur". I don't particularly care about this topic or this manga, I was mainly posing a question, but if you are going to make such a claim then you should back it up.

    Last time I checked (3 years ago) I heard statements from gay men and trans women who complained that it's still used against them as a slur. Maybe it has changed since then, but not to my knowledge. From a google search there is no discussion of it no longer being derogatory that I can find.

    Cleopatra March 25, 2024 7:20 pm
    tldr; okama is (mostly/partially) no longer considered a slur. It has regained common usage within Japan for a while now, and or sometimes refers to a specific vocation. It's not the equivalent of trap, it's ju... erena

    Ok I did some more research but I found that it's still a kind of reclaimed word by some LGBT members but many disagree with its usage so it's very mixed. So I guess a bit similar as the early usage of the word "queer" (though there are differing opinions on the history of the word queer being used by LGBT ppl and I dont know the specifics well). Interesting... a lot of food for thought. Would you mind sharing where you got this information anyway?

    erena March 25, 2024 9:45 pm
    Ok I did some more research but I found that it's still a kind of reclaimed word by some LGBT members but many disagree with its usage so it's very mixed. So I guess a bit similar as the early usage of the word... Cleopatra

    I lived in Japan, so it is just what I've seen. Over the course of the years, many words with negative connotations get reclaimed by it's users, but never quite shed 100% of its negative elements. Like the word fujoshi has quite a lot of history to it too, but it is far less negative now than it used to be.
    It also depends on the region/area of its usage, and who says or uses it. Yes I would agree the equivalent may be close to queer, (though it's exclusive to males).
    Because Japanese is a contextual language, the word itself is less important than who says it and how. It can still be a slur when used in such a tone, but it can also be used by men who are okama to identify themselves.

    erena March 25, 2024 9:57 pm
    I lived in Japan, so it is just what I've seen. Over the course of the years, many words with negative connotations get reclaimed by it's users, but never quite shed 100% of its negative elements. Like the word... erena

    I'll give you an example. There were some guys in a bar I knew who crossdressed. They didn't identify themselves as women or gay (some were bi actually), and they didn't identify themselves as trans either bc they weren't transitioning, but the word okama was convenient for them since it was easier to explain. There are straight okama too.

    Cleopatra March 25, 2024 10:59 pm
    I'll give you an example. There were some guys in a bar I knew who crossdressed. They didn't identify themselves as women or gay (some were bi actually), and they didn't identify themselves as trans either bc t... erena

    Hoo this is very interesting. Thank you for explaining, this is very useful context, it was genuinely difficult to find a trustworthy source online about how the word is actually used! I've been wondering about it for a while. I have a couple of acquaintances from Japan (gay men) who talked about the word negatively as something straight ppl at their workplace used to call them, so my understanding was up till there. Thanks a lot!

    erena March 25, 2024 11:48 pm
    Hoo this is very interesting. Thank you for explaining, this is very useful context, it was genuinely difficult to find a trustworthy source online about how the word is actually used! I've been wondering about... Cleopatra

    Yeah, it's really hard to explain these things because of cultural/language differences too. Like here in the west, a slur is a slur, but there isn't strictly something equivalent in Japanese because the delivery is more important. Anything can be an insult or a praise basically if you deliver it in such a context. Like the word "erai" (meaning: great) is a positive word but can be used as an insult, while in some parts of the country side it can mean something else entirely. The language is so frustratingly vague that even Japanese people complain one thing can be read so many different ways.