I mean what was the purpose of drawing it all? it lasted way longer than it had to aswell.. it was just porn for people who enjoy stuff like this? There's nothing wrong with writing dubious consent/rape if it's actually for the plot but it just ended up being insensitive and not handled well imo... They couldve incorporated it into the story without sexualizing it to this point.. atleast that's how i see it..
I can see where you're coming from with it being dragged out a bit. Cause honestly, at some points it came off as a little cringy. But on your other point of it being oversexualized.. it's literally sex like they are LITERALLY having sex. There's no way of not oversexualizing them LITERALLY having sex. Jaxx wanted to convey this climax point through this dubcon sex scene, so there's no way around not drawing it, either. But I agree with you that it 100% could've been paced/handled better. It came off as a little more goofy than it should've.
Literally this
Don’t waste your braincells lol, there’s barely any media literacy on this app they just wanna see people fuck and call it a day
yeah thats what i have been thinking also.
i dont kno if i worded it wrong so that people get wrong idea what i tried to say:I
fully fucking agree. people really do come here just for the fucking and sucking, but this is an actual story and guess what, there are gonna be plot points! wow crazy. sometimes you need to endure some tough scenes, or rather wait a bit and come back when the story has been updated past the point you’re complaining about. perfectly said though
It’s because a vast number of people reading this app are underage, but these twerps will never fucking admit it. So when they consume media, they do so with their underdeveloped critical thinking and media literacy skills. Everything for them is from the standpoint of “this is right/wrong, this is good/bad”. They don’t know how else to interpret stories and fiction. This is why under 18’s are annoying on the internet.
THIS. FR WHAT DO THEY EXPECT TO A MAFIA STORY. THEY JUST BLABBER HERE AND THAT, BUT DIDNT REALLY INVEST TO THE STORY. AFTER REREADING THIS STARTING TO LAST CHAP OF SS1. I GET MATT AND FELT SORRY FOR HIM TOO(both of them)
MATT CAME OUT TO BE DESPERATE FOR LOVE BY HIS SIDE THAT HIS ACTIONS BECAME LIKE THIS. AND JIN IS THE ONLY PERSON HES HOPING TO GET BY HIS SIDE THATS WHY HES LIKE THIS. MATT GETTING DRUG AND ALL THAT IS NOT PLEASING BUT IF YOURE REALLY INVEST TO THE STORY, YOULL GET IT WHY
I understand that they're having sex but there are plenty of authors that can get a point across without showing it. Sometimes you know something horrible has happened without them even mentioning it. The only one I can think of rn is Back to school (Author of Rivalry). The Mc and his childhood friend simply got into a "physical fight" but you could sense that more than that happened without it ever being shown. Now i'm not saying Jaxx had to completely shield the readers from seeing it but personally how I see it is that ..like you said it definitely got dragged .. but solely for the point of sexualization and not for the plot itself.. To me all the panels of them having "sex" was not to show that something horrible is happening but genuinely to show that they're ..simply.. having sex.
All this just for you to come up with a poor excuse to justify an excessive rape scene. There are SO many other ways confronting that memory could have gone. Get real.
(correct me if I'm missing your point btw) but what I'm understanding from your argument is that you think the scene was bad not only because it wasn't handled as well as it should've been (which we both agree on) but because it shows that supposed tragic plot point through sex?? Again, it's a mature manwha that clearly advertised heavy sexual content. Maybe you picked a bad example too, but Back to School is a shounen-ai. Of course the presentation of plot points in that manwha is gonna differ in comparison to a mature manwha. Jaxx also makes sure to present the dubcon in a way that isn't like palatable.. Their sex doesn't feel loving or even comfortable. You can feel that the sex in this chapter is not the kind that you'd derive love and care from. Its obvious to notice that Jaxx wrote this scene with the darker tones of the plot in mind rather than just throwing a sex scene in there for the hell of it. It's a mature manwha too, so having this climax explored through a dubcon scene isn't something to be shocked about.
with all due respect, not once did I justify the dubcon scene. I was just expanding on the context of why it's there since most people can't comprehend that with basic media literacy. I think we're on the same page that rape is disgusting. All I was doing was putting that fact in context of the manwha so people don't come to black and white conclusions about this manwha because of one fact.
That’s fine, but even understanding why it’s there does not mean people have to feel comfortable with it or that they’re wrong to discontinue reading the manhwa if they choose to. In my opinion BL authors even in dark romance/mafia type stories always have a choice and the author chose to take the story in this direction. Ive read a lot of dark mafia type stories like Bound to be fools, Eunsuk & Jung-gu, shutline that do not have glorified unnecessary rape scenes between the two main characters. The author chose this scene knowing it would appeal to BL readers who only want to fetishize gay sex and that it would forever change the plot & dynamic within the story. Its disappointing to say the least & I expected more from Jaxx.
On each individual reader's comfort level reading darker topics, I'm totally with you. I literally have no issue with readers not being comfortable with that topics such as dubcon. Every reader is different and so is their scope of capability with darker topics. I stated that in my original comment, in case you didn't notice. As for your second point, I'm gonna agree to disagree. I haven't read any of the manhwa you brought up, so I don't have any valid arguments to combat your point. That being said, I've read my fair share of yaoi and in my opinion this scene wasn't nearly as bad as any of the yaoi I've read with dubcon. You can feel free to look through my reading/already read list to be certain. It had contextual reasoning and while it wasn't handled the best, it was presented in a fashion better fitting to the plot in comparison to other manwha. Also just to be clear: using gay sex as a valid plot device in a literal mature BL manwha ≠ fetishizing gay sex.
Bruh fetishizing rape is not a valid plot device. Its different to say this character has been sexually assaulted or have one chapter where it happens & it’s not graphic but if you don’t see how gross it is to fetishize it to this extent then idk what to tell you. I don’t really want to read anything in your recommended because I don’t enjoy rape as a huge plot point. Maybe you should try to read some mafia stories without it so you can stop normalizing things that shouldn’t be normalized.
Okay I'm just gonna concede this discussion with you, since you keep misrepresenting everything I'm saying. A plot device is by no means a plot point. They are two different things. Please search up those terms before using them incorrectly. You also keep throwing around the word "fetishize" without even fully understanding what that means. To fetishize is to "have an excessive and irrational commitment to or obsession with"(dictionary definition). Jaxx isn't fetishizing gay sex when representing ONE scene with dubcon, given that this is a MATURE BL manhwa with darker topics. You can refer to my original comment about why Jaxx used it as a plot device, since I don't feel like repeating myself. I've also already said rape is literally disgusting. I never said anything about enjoying rape, I was only explaining why it was there, that's all. Just because I happen to read mafia manhwas with stuff like this in them doesn't mean I'm normalizing those topics. None of my arguments had anything to do with even enjoying the use of rape (like what kind of sick freak does that anyways??). I just have the basic media literacy to understand why some authors use that as a plot device in their plots.
Back to school wasn't the best example but what I was trying to get across still stands. You are missing my point.. Like I said it's not necessary for Jaxx to shield the readers from seeing the tragic plot point but like I said at the end of my comment ..it got dragged (Which you said you could see) for sexual purposes. Not for the story itself. Please reread the chapters if you can stomach it and look at the panels. Jaxx is obviously very much sexualizing the situation by showing everything in graphic detail and showing how they are "enjoying" it. You said they're "LITERALLY" having sex which yes they obviously are but rape should never be portrayed as just sex. Jaxx handled this plot point like all the other sex scenes they've drawn when there should be an obvious difference.. NOT story wise which already is clearly different but in the way it gets portrayed.. (mainly illustration etc.) A lot of people here are clearly still not focused on what is happening but instead compliment how hot it is.. how hot one of the characters is.. how hot the face theyre making is.. and so on.. I hope you get my point now but personally what I would change about this without changing the plot is simply.. 1. Not show the "Literal sex" nearly as much as Jaxx did by making this part shorter and getting to the conclusion quicker (and i mean less chapters for the readers but I would still try to get the point across that it lasted for a while storywise as to not affect the plot) 2. Not draw the illustration the same as I have in previous sex scenes as to show a clear difference that it is not the same. I would personally prefer not showing penetration but i guess its understandable since this is still a mature manhwa like you said but there was still too much of it. (Showing it once couldve gotten the point across just as good) Not focus on the "sextalk" of matthew as much. Not focus on their faces (that show enjoyment) as much and the excessive panels focusing on positioning and moaning (too many panels of just jin with his genitals out from matthews pov and vice versa or panels focusing on the penetration when we already know what is happening.. adds nothing to the plot) instead I'd show more of Jin not enjoying it at all. (Also found it weird to show him cumming so much.. He already said his body enjoys it, right? Him saying that should have been enough imo) Those are my main two points why it comes off as not handled well and oversexualized. Again that's why a lot of people in the comments are unfortunately still talking about the wrong things. A topic like this shouldnt get readers talking about how Matthew squirted or whatever. Now I hope this helps getting my point across but if you still disagree that is fine. I am personally just disappointed with how it was handled but everyone views media differently and you might have the opinion that it was written well but I simply don't and I hope this helped you understand why? (Sorry it's so long)
(this is gonna be a bit of a long hot take so be warned)
let's get this straight, I totally get the comments feeling repulsed by the dubious consent/rape here, but most of those comments are completely missing the point. Jaxx is writing this scene with the literal intent to underline the tragic climax of them finally confronting a major plot point. Let's also not forget that Under the Greenlight isn't a fluffy BL by all means, so there's going to be heavy elements like murder, gang-fighting, manipulation, and in this case, dubious consent. Nevertheless, we're also forgetting that Matthew is literally not in his right mind to even make decisions, let alone even realize the ramifications of what he's even doing. Jin even gave consent to Matthew so he could help alleviate the drug in Matthew's system. That doesn't excuse Matthew's actions however, just helps explain them. That being said, I totally understand if dubious consent/rape isn't up someone's alley and I wont shame those who feel completely uncomfortable seeing those topics. However, comparing this scene to the likes of other BL which actually DO have rape for no plot reason/writing purpose (looking at you Champagne and Roses) or getting angry at the presentation is missing the point. Matthew is literally intoxicated out of his mind and cannot fathom what he's doing, Jin gave consent (though Matthew isn't being very caring and gentle with it), and Jaxx wanted to write this scene as a tragic sort of climax (very much in bounds with the macabre setting and mood of Under the Greenlight).