Couple things

Now this is how you write about your opinion. Not whatever Winter was doing blaming other readers for being too stupid to understand the story.

noah did not know ian was in rut when he got there. that is not his fault. it was an accident.

sleeping with a drunk person is assault when it’s intentional. noah tried to escape but he wasn’t the one in control even if he did have the clear head. ian’s rut made him rape noah. it wasn’t ian’s decision or what he wanted and it’s not his fault but that is what happened.

No, sleeping with someone without their consent full stop is assault. You don't get to go, "whoops, I didn't mean to touch your body."

Dubious consent only exists in literature because there can't be grey lines in what legally consistutes nonconsensual touching and assault. Pick up any law relating to sexual assault that's how it is.

I correct my statement because you're right. He's reflecting back at the beginning of the chapter. Doesn't change what comes after it though.

actually there are A LOT of grey areas, one of them in this scenario.

noah wasn't assaulting ian, ian was assaulting him. just because he's "on drugs/pheromones" doesn't mean he isn't the perpetrator. even "drunk" himself ian initiated the sex and is the one who failed to get consent, and noah was clearly even physically resisting and not trying to sleep with him.

also they both weren't able to give consent afterwards because they were both in heat and thus impaired, and it's extremely grey in such cases where exact specifics matter a lot (who started it, who was more drunk, etc.)

there are many many many countries in this world and many many laws. so unless you take the laws of korea and/or the US state they were in, it makes no sense to argue with any law, because not even in the US itself they are the same. not that any laws about ruts and heats exist lol

to blame noah seems wild, if a drunken guy rapes someone, no one would say it's the victims fault for interacting with a drunken person unable to control themselves, making them out to be the one violating the other because the perpetrator can't consent on drugs. he was raped, and he didn't even know ian was in a rut. ian was the one raping him (and also failing to take precautions, what would've been if someone else rang his door lol?)

what noah did wrong was not telling ian about them mating and him having a child for 5 years. not visiting someone and getting raped.

(also, if you cannot tell someone is impaired, you usually can defend yourself quite well in court. so that's probably what winter meant with intentional.)

I said they were both at fault for different reasons. Not Noah is entirely to blame, shame on him. Stop trying to twist that up into something it's not.

If Noah had been in heat, non-verbal and not able to consent and he slept with Ian, they would be in the same position because as the person not intoxicated it is your duty to be the responsible party. But then you'd bemoan that Ian would have been able to stop it from occurring. If Noah had been able to stop him, he wouldn't have been assaulted himself. And that's not victim blaming that's just a fact. He'd have lumped him over the head and been done with it.

Okay you want to nitpick at laws when it boils down to the fact that it is the omegaverse the laws should be STRICTER due to the instances where nonconsensual sex can occur. What if neither one of them had any affection for each other and were just random alpha and omega. The alpha is just designated the rapist when he couldn't physically stop himself due to total mental impairment? Listen to yourself. And, FYI, even on Korea where their laws are slightly different, sexual assault while unable to consent exists, it's considered lesser because it doesn't have. violent or intimidation component but it exists.

The problem is you can't pick and choose, this person was assaulted but this person wasn't. That's the point I'm making. It was a clusterfuck that happened and you can't sit there and say Ian did this terrible thing without acknowledging that actually Noah did it as well. Or is he suddenly absolved because he went into heat and it removed his agency? Because how is being overcome with heat any different than a rut? An noticeably, Noah retained his facilities to the degree he was still capable of thought and speech and Ian didn't.

Everything hinges on Ian being this active participant when he was out of his mind. Literally 0 awareness of himself. He could have been in a coma for all his brain is actually there. You can't absolve Noah and damn Ian.

i am not twisting anything. noah isn't to blame AT ALL.

let's take a look at your og comment:
"No ability to control his actions. You sleep with a drunk person that's assault. Ian isn't falling down drunk but it's the same principle." -> ian is the one raping noah. as already stated, that is in no way or form noah's fault. you're trying to pin "sleeping with an intoxicated person", literally assault, on noah when in fact, noah was raped by said intoxicated person.

"Noah assumed he would be fine because he's a beta but you shouldn't go into someone's space when they're going through something that alters their mind. You just don't. "
-> noah wasn't aware that ian was in a rut lol, you are trying to imply both intent on noah's part and also victim blaming him for a situation he didn't control 1) you are NEVER partly at fault for being raped. in no way or form, even if you walk into the lion's den. it's ian's responsibility to ensure he doesn't rape anyone, even in a rut.
2) noah didn't know ian was in a rut, so he wasn't assuming shit. so this whole paragraph is unnecessary anyway.

"If Noah had been in heat (..) they would be in the same position because as the person not intoxicated it is your duty to be the responsible party. (..) If Noah had been able to stop him, he wouldn't have been assaulted himself. And that's not victim blaming that's just a fact." -> that is victim blaming. if noah would have physically overpowered and raped ian, even as the bottom, it would have been the same scenario, the one raping is at fault lol. you cannot blame noah for not being intoxicated because 1) he didn't want to partake in anything, he was (physically overpowered and) forced and 2) he himself gets into heat, so he wasn't "sober" for long.

"The alpha is just designated the rapist when he couldn't physically stop himself due to total mental impairment? Listen to yourself. " -> yes. who else would be the rapist? mental impairment may get you a lighter sentence, or no sentence, but doesn't suddenly make you a victim to the person you raped or give them fault too. as i said, it's not black and white. but if you're mentally unstable you still cannot blame your surroundings for your actions. ian can blame his rut, but not noah.

also, 'rapists not being able to control themselves' is the same argument in real life. if men cannot control themselves, it's on them to ensure they don't hurt others. that does include making sure that during a rut you are unable to get into contact with omegas, which ian didn't really do. should omegas not be allowed to walk around so alphas never "accidentally lose control"? what is this, 1960?


"The problem is you can't pick and choose, this person was assaulted but this person wasn't. " you can choose. one person was raped by an intoxicated person. ian was a victim to his rut, but he wasn't a victim to noah. you are saying they both are to blame, but noah isn't to blame whatsoever in the rape that occured.

" (...)without acknowledging that actually Noah did it as well. Or is he suddenly absolved because he went into heat and it removed his agency? Because how is being overcome with heat any different than a rut? An noticeably, Noah retained his facilities to the degree he was still capable of thought and speech and Ian didn't. "

little bit ironic to say noah still has agency despite his heat, but ian doesn't because of his rut, which you've been doing. noah isn't excused because of his heat alone, he's 'excused' because he was sexually assaulted, physically overpowered, and then had his (first) heat suddenly. he.was.the.victim. just imagine noah being raped by a random alpha because he happened to accidentally meet that alpha during his rut. would you also blame noah for that?

tell us, what DID noah do? going over, unaware that ian was in rut? noah TRYING to remove himself when he noticed what was going on? how are you NOT victim blaming? you're literally saying noah is also to blame for being raped because he was at the wrong place and didn't figth back enough. (and we don't have ian's POV yet, he may was perfectly capable of speaking)


tl;dr IAN WAS NOT ASSAULTED BY NOAH. the end :p

well said

I agree with you. It's a crazy world out here trying to pin Noah as having a fault in this. Like lmao cuz Noah 'invaded' his space hence him getting raped was still his part to blame for?!

I wonder if they hear themselves...

Really wonder what logic that is. At the end of the day, Ian is both the victim and perpetrator. He wasn't fully conscious but was clearly the one who did the act of rope. Noah is the only victim. Whatever twisted, extreme gymnastic one has to do to make him have a 'blame'/'part of the reason to make Noah less of a victim is ridiculous.

Also even tho Noah was in heat that was triggered by Ian, he tried to run away. Who was it that trapped him and assaulted him? Obv Ian. He clearly was conscious enough to be banging someone.

Thanks for your insight. I disagree to an extent with the main comment

Before we even get into the rest of this. You're telling me that you have no issues or qualms with someone who has no control over their body and facilities engaging in sexual intercourse? That they are mentally capable of perpetuating sexual violence.

The question here isn't was Noah raped. That's not what is in contention here. Let that go and answer the actual question. Do you think that there is zero issue with what happened to Ian? That he can wake up to someone else's bodily fluids all over him when he has no ability to stop that? That that is fine?

literally who said that was fine? we have all clearly stated that ian is a victim too, just not to noah.

Then you missed my point by a whole country mile.

As I've said literally in my first comment this happened to both of them and they have to deal with the fall out. You've taken it upon yourself to decide that I meant that Noah was never raped which is blatantly untrue. My point has always been to highlight what ALSO happened to Ian because the comment section is full of people throwing him under the bus when he never had one single say in what happened to him or after.

The nature of the omegaverse is that YES two people can assault each other without intending it because the definition of assault is to have unconsenting sexual relations. Ian's mental state by default makes it impossible for him to consent. He could have very well woken up and realised what had happened and how is he supposed to feel about that? I know how I would feel about that.

None of that lessens what happen to Noah but bet your ass I'm not going to let it be forgotten.

i did not miss your point. nobody ever decided that you’re saying noah wasnt raped. we’re only responding to the fact that you put some of the fault on noah when he doesn’t deserve it. noah is not at fault at all for what happened.

If the laws are as astringent with regards to the omegaverse as previously outlined, i.e. in this hypothetical world, then actually to say he has zero accountability, read that ACCOUNTABILITY, not responsibility, would be once again taking a very conscious bias.

I'm not debating this with you because clearly we disagree and neither one of us is going to bend on the issue. Take it up with someone else from now on. Have the day you deserve.

lol

i guess we found the main confusion, but this already repeats many of my points so my last comment:

"The nature of the omegaverse is that YES two people can assault each other without intending it because the definition of assault is to have unconsenting sexual relations. "

-> yes but this is NOT what happened here!
the action of being raped cannot be s. assault towards the rapist at the same time. and you don't need ABO logic for that either, intoxication and insanity exists, rapist aren't always in control of themselves.

it's NOT the case of 2 drunks having sex with each other, technically not being able to consent (what you are making this out to be) it's the case of ONE 'drunken' person RAPING someone. noah didn't give his consent and got fcked anyway. so it's not like he can "overlook" ian's non-consent BECAUSE HE NEVER WANTED TO HAVE SEX IN THE FIRST PLACE.

let's make this simple for arguments sake: ian is completely insane in that moment. in the sense he can claim insanity in court, 100% not guilty for what happened (i disagree with that!, but wtv):

ian can't consent. but ian doesn't *need* to consent, because he his the one forcing someone into sexual intercourse. WHO would he give his consent to? and for what? not the person he his raping, obviously. his lack of consent is not an issue because no one is asking for it in the first place. consent means you allow, give permission, what permission does noah need from ian for being RAPED? "i give you permission for coating me in sexual fluids while i force myself inside you, which you do not want me to do"?

that doesn't make him the victim of assault *by noah*. ian's insane self did this. if you want to blame someone, blame his own actions in his insane state, his rut/insanity, NOT noah. noah = 100% innocent. ian assaulted himself lol, aren't we all victims of ourselves. ian not being in the right state of mind has nothing to do with noah.

honestly, i just recommend to switch rape with kill. imagine ian would have killed noah in a fit of insanity after he was ringing on his doorbell, ian woke up the next morning next to a corpse and drenched in blood.
now, how would you justify implying that the dead person is in any way at fault for ian's situation because ian was insane and didn't want to become a murderer and get blood on him, and noah didn't get ian's permission to be murdered during his insane rage? noah didn't want to be killed, so makes no sense to blame him for not getting permission to be killed! ian cannot claim to have been physically assaulted by noah for murdering him either. (or technically manslaughter)

you're basically asking: "isn't an intoxicated rapist a victim of the rape too, since he couldn't control himself and may didn't want to have intercourse with the victim either" depends on the details. but if he is, the rape victim, noah, ISN'T also a rapist! so even if i take issue with ian's situation, it's not on noah.

i do agree that the mess that happened after is on both. i do agree that partly ian is a victim of the situation too, not like he wanted to assault noah and mate with him

but NOAH DID NOT ASSAULT IAN! (●'◡'●)ﾉ

BRAVO BRAVO! Excellent arguments!
Besides the opinion of what happened afterwards is on both, ( I have a different opinion). But you gave a great presentation and argument.
One thing people also need to remember is that Noah was initially standing outside Ian's door trying to give back dropped medicine when Ian regardless of mental state pulled Noah inside and started s. assaulting Noah. Also, initially there were those yelling Noah marked Ian without permission blah blah blah but as we can clearly see it's the other way around. Noah is definitely 100% innocent.
Thank you Iia!

My buddy I acknowledge your points . This present fiasco would not have occurred only if things got cleared then and there only.
Instead of both parties being in Solid confusion for years.

Ppl are so dumb. They're literally JUDGING characters who are animals in heat and comparing that to an intoxicated person. It's a comparison for the sake of comparison. But a drunk person, prior to getting intoxicated, has A LOT of power at their disposal to regulate WHEN, where, how much, and how long they wanna keep drinking for. Do alphas and omegas have those options?!? No. They're literally animals at this point. Maybe take your moral high grounds and judge a pig in rut or something.